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This is a discussion on New M3 impressions within the Comparison: WRX vs World forums, part of the Community - Meet other Enthusiasts category; Originally posted by swipe112 Hmm....this may be irrelevant but one time I raced a E46 M3 through a long 280 ...

  1. #31
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    Originally posted by swipe112
    Hmm....this may be irrelevant but one time I raced a E46 M3 through a long 280 degree 40 mph left turn followed by a 30 mph right turn. I gunned it at the straight away, passed him, and he soon followed suit. Basically, I was leading going into the turns but in the end he had 2 car lengths on me coming out.

    Yah, I know this is irrelevant cause nobody is claiming the WRX handles better than an M3, but my freakin' tires were screaming the entire time!! I really was pushing my car to the limit....to the point I actually felt unconfident. Meanwhile, the M3 showed NO signs of understeer nor tire noise. I used to have a lowered Integra with 17's and I feel that may WRX handles even better. I can only say that the M3 handles awesome. my 2 cents.
    A stock M3 achieves between .88-.91 G's..with (I believe) 225's on the front and 255's on the rear. A stock WRX achieves about .84 G's with 205's. A stock STi achieves .91 G's with 225's.

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  3. #32
    Registered User DEADPOOL's Avatar
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    Originally posted by MOG_22
    It's a 6, but it's not a V. It's an inline 6 my friend.
    Tooshay(dont have a clue how to spell it) I knew it was a six but wasnt sure on the format, but now i know.
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  4. #33
    Registered User DEADPOOL's Avatar
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    Originally posted by dangrass
    Sorry if I wasn't clear, an M3 is definitely more practical than a Vette...in that it has 4 seats. Of course it gets worse fuel economy and is dramatically more expensive to own and is not as relaxed a high-speed cruiser. What I was trying to say is that I am more than willing to be critical of vehicles I own. I have plenty of complaints about the Vette, but it does perform very well and is relatively inexpensive to own.
    Actually it seats 5 decently and 4 comfortably.

    Gas mileage is 16 and 24 for the M3.
    The vette has 19 and 28

    Better gas mileage yes, but both get relatively good mileage.

    And its not dramatically more expensive to own. MSRP for the vette is close to $45, the M3 is close to $47.

    But you pay for what you get. Youre paying for practicality, german engineering (german build quality is far greater). The interior is of a much higher quality etc plus trunk space and people space and sunroof.
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  5. #34
    Registered User dsel's Avatar
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    Originally posted by MOG_22
    Because they can and always will?

    No seriously though, how many owners who have beaten more expensive cars in races and have said to themselves I wonder how they feels that their $50k german icon just got beat by a $25k japanese wagon/sedan. Same goes when people compare the srt-4 and the wrx, $20k compact car beating a $25k rally car from a roll. Sure two cars, different purposes in mind, but people still compare. It's all in fun.
    And the guys in the Beamer have leather seats and windows that don't make funny noises when you roll them up. Which is worth something.

  6. #35
    Moderator fengshui's Avatar
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    The M3 as a true enthusiast's sports car died with the E30 which was a homologated road car. It was light, quick, and had brute force handling that teaches how to drive well. I agree that the M3 today is a real pig. But its a pig I wouldn't mind having. What I really want is a 3.0CSL or 2002 Turbo.

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  7. #36
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    Originally posted by DEADPOOL
    Actually it seats 5 decently and 4 comfortably.

    We take the thing to lunch once a week and it's really tight in back. Let's just say that it has a usable rear seat while the Vette has none.

    Gas mileage is 16 and 24 for the M3.
    The vette has 19 and 28

    Better gas mileage yes, but both get relatively good mileage.

    Real life experiences seem to favor the Vette. My partner's M3 gets 16 MPG in mixed driving and 21 on pure highway driving. The Vette gets 18 in mostly city and 29-31 on the open road.

    And its not dramatically more expensive to own. MSRP for the vette is close to $45, the M3 is close to $47.

    Last I checked you could buy a Vette for $45k + T&L. While the list price on the M3 is $47.9k, in order to buy one with a reasonable array of equipment the cost is in the high $50's. In addition this thing is eligible for a gas guzzler tax and a larger luxury tax, so there is effectively about a $10k difference in price between an M3 and a Vette.

    But you pay for what you get. Youre paying for practicality, german engineering (german build quality is far greater). The interior is of a much higher quality etc plus trunk space and people space and sunroof.
    I guess practicality depends on the intented use, so for some the M3 would be more practical while for others the Vette would be. As for "German engineering", I'm no great fan of GM, but the reality is that my friends/partners who have:

    2001 E55
    2000 S500
    2003 745i
    1996 E320D (really bad)
    2000 ML55 (really, really bad)

    ....have all had multiple service visits to fix various and sundry things. The owners all plan to replace these cars once out of warranty due to concerns over long term reliability. My 2000 VW Passat was more reliable that the above cars, but still not perfect. The Vette has had it's share of problems, but certainly no worse than the cars listed above. I'd say it's risky to generalize by nationality...except maybe for Japanese cars, which seem to be almost universally well engineered and well built.

    I agree with you on the interior quality.

    The bottom line, I think, is that an M3 is much closer to an Sti than a Vette in performance. It seems that an STi offers at least as much performance as an M3 and has similar "functionality"....and I suspect significantly better reliability/lower cost of ownership.

    The point of all this is that the M3 is a nice car, but it's pretty hard to rationalize the cost when compared to a Roo, and it simply does not offer the performance of the Vette.

    So, back to my original message...I simply found the car to be less than I expected. By comparison I would say that a Porsche 996 is worth the difference in price....not what I expected to conclude.

  8. #37
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    Originally posted by fengshui
    The M3 as a true enthusiast's sports car died with the E30 which was a homologated road car. It was light, quick, and had brute force handling that teaches how to drive well. I agree that the M3 today is a real pig. But its a pig I wouldn't mind having. What I really want is a 3.0CSL or 2002 Turbo.

    chris
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  9. #38
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    Originally posted by dsel
    And the guys in the Beamer have leather seats and windows that don't make funny noises when you roll them up. Which is worth something.
    Sadly.....I know what you're talking about

  10. #39
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    Actually, its interesting that he posted some negative impressions of the E46 because I had some as well. My buddy is getting one in August and we went to the dealership this weekend to take it out and, well, I thought some of the same things as dangrass did.

    My best friend has a '97 M3 with I/E and it FELT faster than the new ones. Is it? Hell no, not even close...the new M3 is much more refined than the E36, and it doesn't give you the same "kick in the ass" sensation that the E36's did. But that's because the power curve is probably 10x flatter and more linear, whereas the E36 has bumps (I'd assume) which give you that "fast" feeling.

    The E46 is almost a full second quicker in the 1/4 mile than the E36, so really, enough said.

    I thought overall, the car was unbelievable. But I did think, flat out, that it was almost TOO REFINED. It didn't feel nearly as "sporty" as my buddies E36 and it didn't seem to handle quite as well. That was my negative impression...

    That's just my .02 cents. Of course, most things feel pretty damn fast to me coming from my torqueless Honda

    Edit: I did want to say one more thing though. Comparing a 'Vette to a M3 is pretty, well, silly IMO. Two totally different cars. One is a monster, whose sole purpose is to kill other cars The M3 is supposed to be more refined...One is a luxury Sports coupe, one is just a flat out sports car IMO. Different strokes for different folks. Compare the 'Vette to the Cobra and the M3 to the AMG's.
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  11. #40
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    Originally posted by DEADPOOL
    Its not a V8 rather a V6
    sorry, thought u were talking about the e46 rather than the e36
    if everything's under control, you're going too slow

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  12. #41
    Moderator Integra96's Avatar
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    I wasn't aware of Ford owning Mercedes.

    I agree that the E36 was more of a razor while the E46 is now a sharp butter knife - but butter knives rule! I'm a huge fan of all 'M' cars and I think BMW will sharpen the next-gen M3 to compete with sleeker sports cars from other manufacturers.

    dangrass: that's interesting stuff you said about the 3.2L I-6. I always thought the engine was remarkably smooth and easily capable of high-rpm operation. The long stroke part makes sense, but the I-6 architecture lends itself to stability and lack of destructive harmonics, no? I think BMW should stick with inline motors as long as possible - they're the greatest.
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  13. #42
    Registered User Shard's Avatar
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    The inline 6 is the only (excluding Vee 12's and other engines made w/ inline 6's) naturally balanced engine.

  14. #43
    Registered User DEADPOOL's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Integra96
    I wasn't aware of Ford owning Mercedes.

    I agree that the E36 was more of a razor while the E46 is now a sharp butter knife - but butter knives rule! I'm a huge fan of all 'M' cars and I think BMW will sharpen the next-gen M3 to compete with sleeker sports cars from other manufacturers.

    dangrass: that's interesting stuff you said about the 3.2L I-6. I always thought the engine was remarkably smooth and easily capable of high-rpm operation. The long stroke part makes sense, but the I-6 architecture lends itself to stability and lack of destructive harmonics, no? I think BMW should stick with inline motors as long as possible - they're the greatest.
    Theres a connection between the two. I think its ford owning the majority of mercedes etc. Ford has there hands in everything.
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  15. #44
    Registered User DEADPOOL's Avatar
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    Uh the E36 had a 6 as well.

    Also dangrass, i dont consider mercedes cars etc to be of german quality. They are owned by ford(POS company). But BMW tend to be ok, when i talk about build quality im not talking about just the engine. But overall quality is greater. When it comes to accidents etc american cars can rarely compete with the strength of the germans. I remember reading an article where there was an accident between a Ford (i think an f-150) and a BMW 5 series. Basically the truck went into oncoming traffic at about 50 MPH with the BMW doing roughly the same speed. When the hit, the BMW destroyed the truck sending the trucks engine up into the cockpit killing the driver(im pretty sure he died). The BMW had very little damage to the cockpit, and the driver walked away.

    And then you have porsche possibly the strongest sports cars on earth. Who else can go into the Dacar rally for the first time and win with a sports car they use on the street(959).
    "Celebrate we will, for life is short but sweet for certain"-DMB

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  16. #45
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    eh....why did you post this twice dude?

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