WRX vs. R1

[dangrass]

I don't drag race, but I do race through the hills around here. Got in a race with a well ridden Yamaha R1 the other day and did surprisingly well....actually I was faster to the point where he congratulated me.

My car is all stock except for a Cobb stage 1 and a adjustable rear bar set at 20 MM (my car is a wagon). Even though lateral acceleration is not terribly high, the car comes out of turns really well and is quite immune to bad road surfaces common in these parts.

Oh, the brakes were stinking like mad, but didn't fade.

[silverscooby]

There is a misconception that a bike will always take a car in the twistes, but it just isnt so. A well driven car with good handling and power should be able to hang with some of the lower cc bikes.

Nice one!

[Trypsin]

I cruise with an R1, 954 RR and a Blackbird all the time.
The R1 rider is very good and there is no way i can beat him, on some really twisty bumpy roads but that is it.

There was on time where we turned ontp a road with ~1 mile of strait before the ~4-5 miles of twisties. I was left as we turned onto the road as they were getting to about 160-170, i never saw them in from there until we stopped after the twisties and i was only like 20 sec behind. They were amazed how well i kept up.
From a stop they beat me so bad it is funny.
The blackbird has run a 10 even 1/4.

[brembo]

I chased some Ducattis(sp?) down a VERY twisty road here in Asheville(Town Mountain, from the parkway to the city). They could not shake me, and if the road had been closed I might have been able to stuff it past em in a few sections, but blind curves and apexing don't exactly qualify as sane driving. That was in my Integra, which was tuned for twisties. Since I was pointed downhill most of the time, that was a big advantage for me. Had it been uphill, I woulda lost em after a few turns.

[rayray]

On decent pavement, I cant imagine a WRX hanging on to a well ridden R1, or any full litre sport bike; the key phrase here is "well ridden". Perhaps if the road was REAL tight. Or, it could also be the bike rider was painfully aware of the results of overcooking it on a public road.
-Ray

[VA_WRX]

Didn't one of the major car mags do a test between a viper or corvette and a sport bike in the twisties?

The bike won but not by much?

Does anyone else remember this?

[WRXin']

Very nice...those R 1s are great bikes

[dangrass]

I should say that the absolute fastest bikes in the hills around here (and there are some mighty fast ones) are "super motards". These would be 60 hp, 250 lb. singles with unlimited ground clearance and lots of suspension travel. While there is no way any kind of WRX could keep up with an R1 in a straight line (low 10 second quarters at ~138), what wins races is corner speed, or I should say, high average speeds.

I'd love to see how my C5 would do against the WRX. While there's no question that the C5 out accelerates, out brakes, and out sticks the WRX, I think the WRX might be faster, just because it can maintain a high average speed in it's own sloppy way. The C5 is too affected by crappy roads and power-induced oversteer while one can just drive the crap out of the WRX no matter what the conditions. Of course, in the middle of Nevada it's a different story.

[Twanz02WRX]

Originally posted by VA_WRX
Didn't one of the major car mags do a test between a viper or corvette and a sport bike in the twisties?

The bike won but not by much?

Does anyone else remember this?

Yeah I remember MOTORCYCLIST or SPORT RIDER doing this with a Z06 and some bike- I cannot remember which and the Z06 one I think. If I remember correctly the Z06 was the 385hp variant also.

AJ

[is2scooby]

I got my 'Car vs. Bike Smackdown' magazine. The debate RAGES across the internet. Kevin Schwantz both rode the '02 GSX-R1000 and drove the '02 Vette Z06--he's got excellent credentials for both jobs. Both were fully broken in and stock except for the stickier tires they put on the Z06. It was obvious the bike easily had the straight-line performance, and it had a THREE second advantage in the quarter (that's a football field and a half), as well as the top speed advantage (177 -vs- 168). But the Z06 is one of the best-handling production cars ever made (and the deal of the century as far as performance goes) and gets around a road course quicker than almost anything. Would the bike stand a chance against a world class car with four massive DOT race tires and downforce?


So they took them to Willow Springs (but not Streets of Willow, which is somewhat tighter and more technical overall). They turned off the traction control and active handling on the Vette (which are nice things for amateurs or on the street in poor conditions but only hurt times on a racetrack) and adjusted the Gixxer's suspension to suit Schwantz. They used data acquisition stuff that shows exactly what each vehicle was doing at each part of the track. They printed a chart showing the plot of each vehicle's speed at each part of the track--the straights, the turns, etc. The Gixxer not only had much faster speeds on the straights, but usually braked later AND carried more speed on every corner. Final best times for the 9 turn, 2.5 mile track were 1:26.6 for the bike and 1:34.2 for the car. That means in a 37 lap race (about normal), the car and the bike would cross the finish line at about the same time, except the bike would have completed 37 laps and the car would be 3 behind at 34 laps.


Alot of the car guys are claiming that a turbo- or super-charged Vette or a bored and stroked one would have had the better times, but a faster car would have been braking earlier and carrying roughly the same apex speed, and might have had a rougher time with throttle control and traction. More downforce would certainly make a difference (it is the reason Formula one cars can drive upside down on the ceiling and have the best lap times on earth). More could have been done for the bike: rearsets, a high mount race pipe, K&Ns, FI/ignition tuning, stickier and more triangular-profile tires than stock, a reworked shock, removing a little excess weight, short stacks and race cams, carbon fiber bodywork, Marchesini wheels, wave rotors, carbon brake pads, etc. All that and you'd still be well under half the price of the car.


Good article though. It's the kind of thing that will be referred to years from now. People still reference the '90 FZR1K vs. ZR-1, the '97 Viper vs. ThunderAce, the ZX-9R vs. a bunch of cars in the 0-100-0, etc. And the big Gixxer is a great bike, although it's possible the Vette would close the margin considerably at Streets of Willow where a smaller bike would be better suited. And the *average* driver or rider, who would get considerably worse times than Schwantz got on either, will probably do better in the car, especially on real world twisty roads like Deal's Gap where there are more obstacles and the roads aren't always clean or in ideal condition. It still proves that for outright performance and heart-stopping exhiliration, for the money, a bike can't be beaten, and that the logical thing to do would be to buy a good Honda Civic and a good superbike. Best (better) of both worlds, and half the cost. Of course, buying your dream car, something that gives you an emotional response every time you get in it, has little to do with logic.

http://kevynwight.diaryland.com/020303_71.html

[Shabba]

Originally posted by is2scooby
http://kevynwight.diaryland.com/020303_71.html

Well said!! I race my bike in CCS and next year WERA (I'm sure I'm not the only racer on this board..) and let me say that a well driven car is no match for a well ridden bike on the track or street Quarter mile times mean sh!t on the street unless you are into bragging about them. A group of us went to Deals Gap 2 years ago and that weekend there was a WRX owners meeting. Those guys (well, I would be one now too) tried their dam!dest to hang with us but to no avail. The biggest bike in the bunch was my GSXR750 and the smallest bike was a dude's R6. We had a 1994 Katana 750 that was smoking fast (yeah..a can o tuna that was fast hehe)..the cars were no match for well ridden bikes..man that was a fun weekend

[chevyeater]

Any SANE motorcyclist will not push to the limit on a public road. There are some racetracks where it is not safe to push a bike to the limit.

[Shabba]

Originally posted by chevyeater
Any SANE motorcyclist will not push to the limit on a public road. There are some racetracks where it is not safe to push a bike to the limit.

Agreed. Now I notice you used the word "sane".....

[rayray]

Any SANE motorcyclist will not push to the limit on a public road

...and this applies to me how..?

-Ray

[chevyeater]

Yeah, I have some crazy friends too. The one with the blackbird comes to mind- he routinely drags pegs with his gf on the back, screaming bloody murder. He was also clocked at 211 mph by the county police (definitely not stock). That was worth some jail time. That is why I sold my R6, I would have turned myself into a road pizza trying to keep up with my friends.

Just wanted to say that a well ridden R1 could mean different things on the street. Could be well ridden as in safely going fast or well ridden as in actually reaching the edge of the performance "envelope". Alot easier and safer to do in a car.