STi vs. EVO vs. SRT-4 - Page 5
+ Reply to Thread
Page 5 of 6 FirstFirst 123456 LastLast
Results 61 to 75 of 77

This is a discussion on STi vs. EVO vs. SRT-4 within the Comparison: WRX vs World forums, part of the Community - Meet other Enthusiasts category; Originally posted by RSXSucks Here is a series that allows FWD vs RWD vs AWD: http://www.speedvisionwc.com/2003/standings.html First place in the ...

  1. #61
    Moderator fengshui's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    1,816
    Originally posted by RSXSucks
    Here is a series that allows FWD vs RWD vs AWD: http://www.speedvisionwc.com/2003/standings.html

    First place in the touring class is the FWD RSX.
    Top ten has 4 FWD cars, 5 RWD cars, and 1 AWD car (4th place). Hmm, there used to be 3 other AWD entries (another Audi and a couple Imprezas) in the bottom third of the rankings but I don't see them on there anymore. I wonder why they dropped out?

    AWD fares better in the GT class but I still see a lot of RWD cars in the top 10.

    Just goes to show that RWD cars can still compete in the shadow of AWD's complete superiority. Even FWD can compete until the power reaches a certain limit. I'm not THAT much of a Honda fanboy to claim that FWD is a good performance platform.
    If you read into the SPEED World Challenge you'd know that 1) the cars are at unequal levels of tuning to make it fair and 2) when mazda proteges beat BMWs and tuned RSXs around the track, you know something is up. My statement was given equal amounts of tuning (which you won't ever find in sactioned events since they must be unequal to keep the field fair, which is a good idea ).

    chris
    Moderator: Retired
    2002 Subaru Impreza WRX Sedan 5MT - Road Rally - Best 1/4mi: 13.954 @ 97.36mph (3448 lbs)
    2001 Mazda Miata 5MT - AutoX #99 (NNJ Region SCCA 2005 CStock Champion)
    1988 BMW 325 (2.7L "i" conversion) Sedan 5MT - Daily Driver (AutoX soon!)
    "If you can't drive this car fast you can't drive fast." --British Magazine, CAR, on the WRX

  2. Remove Advertisements
    ClubWRX.net
    Advertisements
     

  3. #62
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Posts
    410
    Originally posted by fengshui
    If you read into the SPEED World Challenge you'd know that 1) the cars are at unequal levels of tuning to make it fair and 2) when mazda proteges beat BMWs and tuned RSXs around the track, you know something is up. My statement was given equal amounts of tuning (which you won't ever find in sactioned events since they must be unequal to keep the field fair, which is a good idea ).

    chris
    Actually, I assumed that too until I looked a little further into the rule book. The Imprezza has a weight limit equal to the RSX and the Audi has a weight limit equal to the BMW. In fact, it was the BMW that had to use a restrictor plate IIRC, not any of the AWD cars.

    And why would it surprise you that a Mazda Protege could beat a BMW or an RSX? None of these cars are stock and the Protege is a great handling car. It probably also has a very low minimum weight limit.

    To be honest, I posted those results up at ClubRSX and I basically asked "How come the AWD cars aren't totally dominating since we hear all the time that AWD > RWD >>>>> FWD." I honestly can't explain the standings and no one else could either. So please don't take this post as a flame. Personally, I believe that AWD should be dominating, but the results speak for themselves.
    2002 RSX Type S
    Anyone want to buy my car?

  4. #63
    Moderator fengshui's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    1,816
    Well for one the BMW has to use a near stock engine, while the Protege gets a specialized race only version from the factory backed Mazda team. As far as the RSXs goes, the REAL TIME racing team has dominated the previous years in the ITR as well in cars that are not only well tuned, but have amazing drivers (Cunningham, anyone?). I also believe that Paul races an Audi in the GT series as well as his RSXs. I'm not cracking FWD here, but the regulations surely keep the field balanced and the lighter more powerful Acuras are a force to be reckoned with as a result. But its interesting to see there is no real FWD force in the GT class. As well as no real FWD force in JGTC for that matter, where more power is put to the ground. And need I remind about Gary Sheehan in the USTCC. There the cars are allowed more tuning than SPEED WC and the WRX and BMWs are beating (but its a close race as always) the FWD competition. I don't want to sound like a hater, just stating my belief that given equal power, race suspensions, and grip, AWD cars should have an easier time pulling ahead. It also turns out some of the FWD cars can gain back positions on the straitaways thanks to their speed and power over the competition. Sorry if I sounded like it, but no FWD hater here. I'd buy a ITR if I could, I hear they are marvelous.

    chris
    Moderator: Retired
    2002 Subaru Impreza WRX Sedan 5MT - Road Rally - Best 1/4mi: 13.954 @ 97.36mph (3448 lbs)
    2001 Mazda Miata 5MT - AutoX #99 (NNJ Region SCCA 2005 CStock Champion)
    1988 BMW 325 (2.7L "i" conversion) Sedan 5MT - Daily Driver (AutoX soon!)
    "If you can't drive this car fast you can't drive fast." --British Magazine, CAR, on the WRX

  5. #64
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Posts
    410
    Originally posted by fengshui
    Well for one the BMW has to use a near stock engine, while the Protege gets a specialized race only version from the factory backed Mazda team. As far as the RSXs goes, the REAL TIME racing team has dominated the previous years in the ITR as well in cars that are not only well tuned, but have amazing drivers (Cunningham, anyone?). I also believe that Paul races an Audi in the GT series as well as his RSXs. I'm not cracking FWD here, but the regulations surely keep the field balanced and the lighter more powerful Acuras are a force to be reckoned with as a result. But its interesting to see there is no real FWD force in the GT class. As well as no real FWD force in JGTC for that matter, where more power is put to the ground. And need I remind about Gary Sheehan in the USTCC. There the cars are allowed more tuning than SPEED WC and the WRX and BMWs are beating (but its a close race as always) the FWD competition. I don't want to sound like a hater, just stating my belief that given equal power, race suspensions, and grip, AWD cars should have an easier time pulling ahead. It also turns out some of the FWD cars can gain back positions on the straitaways thanks to their speed and power over the competition. Sorry if I sounded like it, but no FWD hater here. I'd buy a ITR if I could, I hear they are marvelous.

    chris
    Yes, I believe I stated in my post that as the power goes up, FWD becomes less and less competitive. I'm not even arguing which is better between FWD and RWD/AWD because I'll be the first to say that FWD is the least desirable performance platform. The point I was actually replying to was saying that AWD>RWD when it comes to performance which I honestly do not see in this series. So for the time being, let's leave all the FWD cars out of the discussion.

    The fact is that even though the AWD Audi does not have to run restrictor plates, has similar minimum weight requirements as the RWD BMW and Lexus competitors, and yet we see only 1 Audi in the whole event? Imprezas are allowed, have a MUCH lower allowable minimum weight than its RWD competitors, and yet the only 2 I saw a few weeks ago don't seem to be in the list anymore. Why will so few run an AWD car in the Touring Class when they aren't inherently disadvantaged by the rules? Even in the GT class (which I admit, I didn't look into as much), the AWD cars are certainly not anywhere close to sweeping the field. I'm pointing this out NOT because I believe that RWD > AWD but the exact opposite actually. WHY isn't AWD dominating both Touring and GT classes? It really should be.
    2002 RSX Type S
    Anyone want to buy my car?

  6. #65
    Registered User dookiebob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Philadelphia
    Posts
    219
    There was an issue of Grassroots motorsports that pitted a stock WRX, BMW 330ci, and a RSX type S around both a wet and a dry course. HP to weight in all these cars was pretty close.

    Their result? The WRX beat all comers... and FWD was considered to be the worst to race with.

    Now, I know this comparo has its flaws but it gets the message across... AWD is the best

    -Bob

    BTW: I think the World Challenge is biased towards their sponsor (Mazda). It would explain why they seem to keep winning, or keep staying near the top. Factory-built race engines vs. stockers??? puh-leeze!
    I am the Anti-rice.

    TurboXS stage 4+ and much, much more...

  7. #66
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Posts
    410
    Originally posted by dookiebob
    There was an issue of Grassroots motorsports that pitted a stock WRX, BMW 330ci, and a RSX type S around both a wet and a dry course. HP to weight in all these cars was pretty close.

    Their result? The WRX beat all comers... and FWD was considered to be the worst to race with.

    Now, I know this comparo has its flaws but it gets the message across... AWD is the best

    -Bob

    BTW: I think the World Challenge is biased towards their sponsor (Mazda). It would explain why they seem to keep winning, or keep staying near the top. Factory-built race engines vs. stockers??? puh-leeze!
    Actually, I believe the FWD car came in second which, if anything, goes to show that you can't judge a platform based on one test.

    Although modifications are limited by a set of rules, I believe that any competitor is allowed to mod their cars. The BMW 325 was the only one in the Touring class I noticed that was required to run a restrictor plate. I know for a fact that the RSX was quite heavily modified so it certainly wasn't just the Mazdas.
    2002 RSX Type S
    Anyone want to buy my car?

  8. #67
    Moderator fengshui's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    1,816
    If you read my uber-previous statement. You'd see that the RWD cars in the hands of the capable race car drivers that drive them can take a more risky advantageous line through the turns, using throttle to help steer them in the right direction. Which could help them pass AWD cars which have a tendency to understeer (thanks to 50:50 torque split). I think the AWD/RWD battle is a good one and I'm sure more AWD entries appear. I mean this IS the first year for the Imprezas (2.5 RSes). Obviously some people thought there were advantages enough to field 2 cars (Irish Mike's). Did you watch the one event where it was raining at Limerock? The Audi RS6s pulled immediately to the front and one podiumed pretty high I think (the other was tapped on the rear bumper and sent into the walls). Raining lowers the limits of grip and the Audi proved itself to be easier driven and faster at that limit.

    chris
    Moderator: Retired
    2002 Subaru Impreza WRX Sedan 5MT - Road Rally - Best 1/4mi: 13.954 @ 97.36mph (3448 lbs)
    2001 Mazda Miata 5MT - AutoX #99 (NNJ Region SCCA 2005 CStock Champion)
    1988 BMW 325 (2.7L "i" conversion) Sedan 5MT - Daily Driver (AutoX soon!)
    "If you can't drive this car fast you can't drive fast." --British Magazine, CAR, on the WRX

  9. #68
    Registered User jar_e_d sti's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Ok
    Posts
    220
    Originally posted by RSXSucks
    Actually, I believe the FWD car came in second which, if anything, goes to show that you can't judge a platform based on one test.

    Although modifications are limited by a set of rules, I believe that any competitor is allowed to mod their cars. The BMW 325 was the only one in the Touring class I noticed that was required to run a restrictor plate. I know for a fact that the RSX was quite heavily modified so it certainly wasn't just the Mazdas.
    No, it went Subaru, BMW, and Honda last.
    --Jared

    go fast, take the apex(no matter what)

  10. #69
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Posts
    410
    Originally posted by jar_e_d sti
    No, it went Subaru, BMW, and Honda last.
    Ah, it must have been another competition between the WRX, RSX, and a BMW. I actually read about it on this site and the end result was WRX, RSX, and then the BMW.
    2002 RSX Type S
    Anyone want to buy my car?

  11. #70
    Moderator fengshui's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    1,816
    Originally posted by RSXSucks
    Ah, it must have been another competition between the WRX, RSX, and a BMW. I actually read about it on this site and the end result was WRX, RSX, and then the BMW.
    Would that be the "Monkey in the Middle" competition?

    Sorry couldn't resist.

    chris
    Moderator: Retired
    2002 Subaru Impreza WRX Sedan 5MT - Road Rally - Best 1/4mi: 13.954 @ 97.36mph (3448 lbs)
    2001 Mazda Miata 5MT - AutoX #99 (NNJ Region SCCA 2005 CStock Champion)
    1988 BMW 325 (2.7L "i" conversion) Sedan 5MT - Daily Driver (AutoX soon!)
    "If you can't drive this car fast you can't drive fast." --British Magazine, CAR, on the WRX

  12. #71
    Registered User dookiebob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Philadelphia
    Posts
    219
    Originally posted by RSXSucks
    Ah, it must have been another competition between the WRX, RSX, and a BMW. I actually read about it on this site and the end result was WRX, RSX, and then the BMW.
    No, I think you just got it wrong. The comparo that people talk about is the Grassroots motorsports one. It may have been misquoted on the site (or by you), but I'm looking at the results right now...

    1. WRX
    2. BMW
    3. RSX

    I am pretty confident that this was the only such comparison made between the three cars. Show me proof of the others if you can...

    -Bob
    I am the Anti-rice.

    TurboXS stage 4+ and much, much more...

  13. #72
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Posts
    410
    Originally posted by dookiebob
    No, I think you just got it wrong. The comparo that people talk about is the Grassroots motorsports one. It may have been misquoted on the site (or by you), but I'm looking at the results right now...

    1. WRX
    2. BMW
    3. RSX

    I am pretty confident that this was the only such comparison made between the three cars. Show me proof of the others if you can...

    -Bob
    Found it, but it looks like it is the same one you found. I never read the article, like I said above, I actually read about it right here on ClubWRX.
    AWD v. RWD v. FWD
    I guess they misquoted the results?
    2002 RSX Type S
    Anyone want to buy my car?

  14. #73
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Posts
    410
    So can someone explain the disparity between the link I posted and this thread? I'm curious why two people who read the exact same article disagree on the result!
    2002 RSX Type S
    Anyone want to buy my car?

  15. #74
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Posts
    6
    Originally posted by Impreza01
    I always wondered why the Japanese never made a factory car fwd car with a turbo. It's just a thought as the only traction problems I've seen are during start from a stop. Other than that, I don't hear too many cars having traction problems from a roll.

    Case in point, Best Motoring Ring had a tuner car shootout. The first place car was a Mines EVO 4 (this thing pulled a high 12 second quarter mile in heavy rain which kinda scares me what it would do in the dry). However, the second place car was a Civic Type R that had a turbo pumping out 400 hp. While it had a little trouble laying power in the corners (guess with that hp even LSD doesn't help), it chewed up cars badly during the straightaways. The tuner used to sell this 400 hp CTR in Japan for the price of 40k USD.

    Anyways, went off-topic, why doesn't Japan build a high hp FWD car? I'm fairly sure they have the capabilities to do it well and also keep the good handling (look at the ITR and CTR).
    Actually, the reason why is because all the Japanese manufacturer's long ago made a gentlemen's agreement to never go above 250HP in their cars to avoid an all out horsepower war.

    However, it seems that in recent years this rule has been thrown out, and the new breed of cars coming will all ignore this rule...=P

  16. #75
    Registered User 2001S4's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Posts
    845
    Originally posted by Tekdemon
    Actually, the reason why is because all the Japanese manufacturer's long ago made a gentlemen's agreement to never go above 250HP in their cars to avoid an all out horsepower war.

    However, it seems that in recent years this rule has been thrown out, and the new breed of cars coming will all ignore this rule...=P
    Actually I believe the HP cap was 276 HP if I recall correctly. Many cars were assumed to have higher hp than that, but they were officially rated at a max of 276hp. Do you really think the NSX has only that much HP? I doubt it. And the Japanese did make FWD turbo cars. The Eclipse GS-T comes to mind. The GSX was the AWD version while the GS-T is FWD. I believe there are others, but there is a HUGE bug crawling on my floor I have to go kill, so no time to think

+ Reply to Thread
Page 5 of 6 FirstFirst 123456 LastLast

Quick Reply Quick Reply

Register Now

Please enter the name by which you would like to log-in and be known on this site.
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.

Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Please enter a valid email address for yourself. We strongly suggest that you stay away from using aol, yahoo, msn, and hotmail accounts. Sometimes the mail server blocks the emails from our server. As a result you will not receive any notifications including the confirmation email.

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.


Posting Permissions

  • You may post new threads
  • You may post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •