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This is a discussion on Audi A4 within the Comparison: WRX vs World forums, part of the Community - Meet other Enthusiasts category; What are your guys' general opinions of modded A4s?...

  1. #1
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    Audi A4

    What are your guys' general opinions of modded A4s?

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    Moderator Integra96's Avatar
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    Most modded A4s are a joke compared to a stock WRX. Of course, I'm talking about the ones with springs and a chip. Otherwise, it takes a lot of work to get them up to S4 territory - which is right about the performance of a stock WRX. I know a few guys that hit the car shows with very mean Audis - but I think most of the modded Subarus on this board could take 'em out. Just for comparison sake, a FWD Passat (same engine/driveline as a 1.8T FWD A4 and similar weight) with intercooler, turboback, chip, intake, BOV, clutch, and nitrous runs consistent 14.3-14.4 down here. Granted it's a FWD, but I don't think the AWD would give it much more than bring it down to ~13.7-13.8, if that.

    Now if only I could score a WRX with an A4 interior.

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  4. #3
    Registered User Griswold's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Integra96
    Most modded A4s are a joke compared to a stock WRX. Of course, I'm talking about the ones with springs and a chip. Otherwise, it takes a lot of work to get them up to S4 territory - which is right about the performance of a stock WRX. I know a few guys that hit the car shows with very mean Audis - but I think most of the modded Subarus on this board could take 'em out. Just for comparison sake, a FWD Passat (same engine/driveline as a 1.8T FWD A4 and similar weight) with intercooler, turboback, chip, intake, BOV, clutch, and nitrous runs consistent 14.3-14.4 down here. Granted it's a FWD, but I don't think the AWD would give it much more than bring it down to ~13.7-13.8, if that.

    Now if only I could score a WRX with an A4 interior.

    Different beasts altogether. I've got a modded A4 that I was very close to trading in on a WRX 2 weeks ago.

    My coilovered, chipped A4 with exhaust felt slower from a launch, but faster from a roll. Probably not actually the case, though, but rather the tiny A4 turbo hitting quick and hard giving the impression of more umph.

    I liked the WRX a lot, but the A is almost paid for...

    The A4 handling felt more responsive, but what do you expect with $1k in suspension mods.

    I was really impressed with the WRX, though. You're right on the interior, though. I loved the grippy seats, the pedal placement and the short clutch throw. Those were some of the things I wish the Audi was a little better about. The A4 clutch throw is a little long and the pedal placement makes it tough to heel toe.

    But overall, part of the premium that you're paying for, in the Audi, is the interior and fit and finish.

    In the end, they're differnt cars for differnt purposes and each does their job well.

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    Well, a buddy of mine has a 99.5 A4 1.8T Quattro, chipped with an ITG filter and it is pretty quick, but I can reel him in pretty easily with my pretty much stock WRX. But, the Suby can't touch the Audi in terms of quality and interior, plus the Audi is a beautiful car. Of course I've got the best of both worlds.... my fiance picked up an A4 1.8T Quattro (although with the gimicky manu-matic), so we take her car when we go on long trips. I've been trying to convince her to get a chip for that thing to make it a little nicer... that 150 stock HP doesn't cut it.

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    Registered User Griswold's Avatar
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    Originally posted by pnv2033
    I've been trying to convince her to get a chip for that thing to make it a little nicer... that 150 stock HP doesn't cut it.
    150 doesn't cut it at all. The chip really makes that car. The chipped A4 really starts to come alive at speeds over 80. I swear that my car pulls as hard at 100 to 110mph, in 5th as it does in 40 in 3rd.

    I just wish it wasn't such a porky car, but then you wouldn't have the interior quality...maybe.

    The reason I was looking at the WRX was I wanted a little more get up and go, but I figured, at this point in owning the car, it's cheaper for me to slap a turbo upgrade on than it is to get downpayments, taxes, etc.

    If anyone's looking for a WRX, the dealers are offering great finance rates on the remaining 03's!

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    *clears throat*

    Integra96, allow me to correct you.

    A chip/exhaust recent (01' on) A4 will be around 230HP/250TQ (talking more recent KO3 sport equipped models). That is a touch better than a *stock* WRX in output. That same "stage 2" A4 will likely run mid to low 14's. The older KO3 cars would be at ~215hp/250tq at "Stage 2" that would be up through the 00' models.

    When all i had was a chip/exhaust/intake i managed to slowly crawl away from a 330Ci on multiple highway runs...they are not slouches.

    Any turbo car can be built sky-high, its just a question of $. Where the WRX shines over the A4 is three main items; a good manifold,a good TMIC, and a bigger OEM turbo. Where the A4 shines is in very good engine management, a superb AWD system, and a very durable engine which originally saw life as a diesel

    So you have to replace the above three for big power in an A4, but when you do, a new world opens up. My car (which i am dynoing soon) makes over 300hp...appreciably more considering the sort of cars ive beaten. Ive outrun 3 cars which were rated at ~330hp (Camaro SS, C5 Vette convertible, E46M3) let alone the legions of Mustangs and imports :/ Inevitably, the imports ask me if i drive an S4.

    The 1.8T 5v in the A4 is a wonderful, durable, undersquare motor which delivers great torque and can safely hold 400+whp in a daily driver mode (all on stock internals). If you go all out and do a built 2.0L, they are putting out 400-450hp on PUMP. Heck, PES will do a built 2.0 for you, just call em.

    The big turbo kits for the A4 (PES and APR) do about 280hp/300tq, and put the A4 into the 13's (of course you know launch is all the difference, but i know of 13.100 for the PES kit, 13.2 for the APR kit). Most draggers are getting into the mid-13's with those cars/kits...nothing else to get those numbers. The guys that are going with custom work are getting high 12's.

    This is just bolt on stuff. The future will hold cams, solid lifter and internals which will allow the 1.8T to rev over 7400 rpm (valve float) and *really* raise the bar on what we can do.

    Not to say the WRX mill cannot do the same! Its just whether the tuners will chase the market. The WRX was destined to succeed, whereas, i think, tuners weren't so sure there would be a big enough Audi scene for major mods. Frankly the 1.8T into the VWs has made them a certain interest for tuners (though VWs are transverse, Audis are longitudal).

    What i like about an A4 with a big turbo kit (and its associated stuff) is you get the best of both worlds...a performer and a looker, with great build, materials, and quality. Something equally at ease on a track as at the Opera.

    I love WRXs, and i might be responsible for selling 2 of them (pushing my brother and a friend into them). If i were in college id have gotten one. But the looks are too boy-racer, and i like elegance in my cars.

    PNV2033,

    A chip for your GF's will boost it to 200hp/245tq. id also suggest upgrading the bypass valve...a TT one can be had for $30. There is also a TIP chip from GIAC, which firms up the auto nicely.

    Cheers,
    Sameer
    99.5 A4 1.8T28
    P.E.S. T28 Turbo Kit, Racetec Z-Flo FMIC, 1/8 Test Pipe w/Milltek Exhaust, Vortrag Hypercoil Springs over Bilstein Sports (450lb/500lb), W.O.A. Stage II Clutch, Racetec 4-pt Strut Brace, A.W.E. A Pillar Boost Gauge, Bailey BPV, Valeo E-Codes w/ Phillips 5300K H.I.D., APR Snubbie, Strat cartridge SSK, S4 Vented Wheel Liner, Brembo Rotors w/ Hawk HPS Pads(F)/EBC Greens(R), Denso Iridium IK-22's, Hella Supertones, O.Z. 17" SL's w/ Kumho Ecsta Supra 712's, Alpine CDA-7894, MB Quart QSD 213, Rockford Fosgate 501.1bd, Alpine SWR-1241D, P.P.I. A.400, 35% Llumar Charcoal tint, UUC RKII, RS-4 Grille.
    "Building boost, breakin hearts"

    94 Miata C Package (a.k.a. Nougat)
    Flying Miata's FM2 intercooled GT28 turbo kit, Shiv fuel rail, AEM wideband O2, FM turbo exhaust, R.S. Aizawa Slash Intake Lid, KYB AGX's, HDHCDD 4-Point rollbar, FM NA clutch, FM F+R swaybars, Hella E-Code H4 Conversions, CRI Fogs, CRI Air Horns, Lewis Lumbars, Momo Monte Carlo, Rota Circuit 8's 15" with Toyo T1-S's, Pioneer Premier DEH-P440 with Infiniti Kappas 6 1/2 (doors), Infiniti Kappas 3 1/2 (headrests), some chrome bits, Voodoo.
    "It's not how fast you go, its how little you slow down...but 9.5hp/lb helps!"

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    Man, I traded in mine long time ago

    Originally posted by Lawrider
    *clears throat*

    Integra96, allow me to correct you.

    A chip/exhaust recent (01' on) A4 will be around 230HP/250TQ (talking more recent KO3 sport equipped models). That is a touch better than a *stock* WRX in output. That same "stage 2" A4 will likely run mid to low 14's. The older KO3 cars would be at ~215hp/250tq at "Stage 2" that would be up through the 00' models.

    When all i had was a chip/exhaust/intake i managed to slowly crawl away from a 330Ci on multiple highway runs...they are not slouches.

    Any turbo car can be built sky-high, its just a question of $. Where the WRX shines over the A4 is three main items; a good manifold,a good TMIC, and a bigger OEM turbo. Where the A4 shines is in very good engine management, a superb AWD system, and a very durable engine which originally saw life as a diesel

    So you have to replace the above three for big power in an A4, but when you do, a new world opens up. My car (which i am dynoing soon) makes over 300hp...appreciably more considering the sort of cars ive beaten. Ive outrun 3 cars which were rated at ~330hp (Camaro SS, C5 Vette convertible, E46M3) let alone the legions of Mustangs and imports :/ Inevitably, the imports ask me if i drive an S4.

    The 1.8T 5v in the A4 is a wonderful, durable, undersquare motor which delivers great torque and can safely hold 400+whp in a daily driver mode (all on stock internals). If you go all out and do a built 2.0L, they are putting out 400-450hp on PUMP. Heck, PES will do a built 2.0 for you, just call em.

    The big turbo kits for the A4 (PES and APR) do about 280hp/300tq, and put the A4 into the 13's (of course you know launch is all the difference, but i know of 13.100 for the PES kit, 13.2 for the APR kit). Most draggers are getting into the mid-13's with those cars/kits...nothing else to get those numbers. The guys that are going with custom work are getting high 12's.

    This is just bolt on stuff. The future will hold cams, solid lifter and internals which will allow the 1.8T to rev over 7400 rpm (valve float) and *really* raise the bar on what we can do.

    Not to say the WRX mill cannot do the same! Its just whether the tuners will chase the market. The WRX was destined to succeed, whereas, i think, tuners weren't so sure there would be a big enough Audi scene for major mods. Frankly the 1.8T into the VWs has made them a certain interest for tuners (though VWs are transverse, Audis are longitudal).

    What i like about an A4 with a big turbo kit (and its associated stuff) is you get the best of both worlds...a performer and a looker, with great build, materials, and quality. Something equally at ease on a track as at the Opera.

    I love WRXs, and i might be responsible for selling 2 of them (pushing my brother and a friend into them). If i were in college id have gotten one. But the looks are too boy-racer, and i like elegance in my cars.

    PNV2033,

    A chip for your GF's will boost it to 200hp/245tq. id also suggest upgrading the bypass valve...a TT one can be had for $30. There is also a TIP chip from GIAC, which firms up the auto nicely.

    Cheers,
    Sameer
    First, you can't compare A4 and WRX. They are not designed to be comparable. Integra96 is some what right about A4 mods is a joke unless someone moded the heck out like you do (thnx for your sig).

    Secondly, a stock A4 with ECU upgrade, exhaust (around 235hp to be generous?), as you said will be a touch better on a stock WRX but I think the stock WRX will still rape the A4+ECU+Exhaust from a stop. If you know anyone has this set up that lives in Katy-TX, I would like to run since mine is still stock.

    Third, no offense to Subie owners but who cares about the way it looks? Besides for almost 28K for brand new A4 (excluding mods), one could get 03 WRX with stage 4 that could leave the C5, SS and E46M3 like you are so proud of your 99.5 w/ PES kit.

  9. #8
    Registered User JRod's Avatar
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    Why cant you guys believe an A4 1.8T can be fast, its an AWD turbo 4cyl that's only down 0.2 liters of displacement. I think its very comparable car to the WRX. Much more than a SRT-4 that everyone seems to care so much about.
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    Yass,

    What im trying to say is both cars can be equally built up. So the extra 4k of an Audi over a WRX is spent on superior materials and quality (let alone looks). The original question was about modded Audis. There are hundreds of big turbo A4s out there nationwide by this time, and more all the time.

    I certainly think its a fair tradeoff...

    Thanks JRod, im finding it mind boggling that i have to argue the virtue of a FI AWD car to FI AWD owners?!

    No one ever said an A4 peforms better stock or slightly modded over a WRX. What i am saying is once you spend serious money on mods, they equal very close...big turbo A4s are pulling high 12s, as are "stage 4" WRXs.

    Cheers,
    Sameer
    99.5 A4 1.8T28
    P.E.S. T28 Turbo Kit, Racetec Z-Flo FMIC, 1/8 Test Pipe w/Milltek Exhaust, Vortrag Hypercoil Springs over Bilstein Sports (450lb/500lb), W.O.A. Stage II Clutch, Racetec 4-pt Strut Brace, A.W.E. A Pillar Boost Gauge, Bailey BPV, Valeo E-Codes w/ Phillips 5300K H.I.D., APR Snubbie, Strat cartridge SSK, S4 Vented Wheel Liner, Brembo Rotors w/ Hawk HPS Pads(F)/EBC Greens(R), Denso Iridium IK-22's, Hella Supertones, O.Z. 17" SL's w/ Kumho Ecsta Supra 712's, Alpine CDA-7894, MB Quart QSD 213, Rockford Fosgate 501.1bd, Alpine SWR-1241D, P.P.I. A.400, 35% Llumar Charcoal tint, UUC RKII, RS-4 Grille.
    "Building boost, breakin hearts"

    94 Miata C Package (a.k.a. Nougat)
    Flying Miata's FM2 intercooled GT28 turbo kit, Shiv fuel rail, AEM wideband O2, FM turbo exhaust, R.S. Aizawa Slash Intake Lid, KYB AGX's, HDHCDD 4-Point rollbar, FM NA clutch, FM F+R swaybars, Hella E-Code H4 Conversions, CRI Fogs, CRI Air Horns, Lewis Lumbars, Momo Monte Carlo, Rota Circuit 8's 15" with Toyo T1-S's, Pioneer Premier DEH-P440 with Infiniti Kappas 6 1/2 (doors), Infiniti Kappas 3 1/2 (headrests), some chrome bits, Voodoo.
    "It's not how fast you go, its how little you slow down...but 9.5hp/lb helps!"

  11. #10
    Moderator Integra96's Avatar
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    No argument from me. I actually know most of those mod details from some of the people around here with nice Audis/VWs - I was just saying that even the Stage II ones, as you said, will -maybe- approach a stock WRX in the 1/4 mile. At higher speeds, the advantage will probably be slightly to the A4. Don't get me wrong, I think they're awesome cars, I was just saying that the WRX seems to be a little more responsive in the initial stages of mods (getting into the 13's easily, for example). After that, it's anyone's ballgame - because there are some animal A4s out there.

    Obviously, the 1320' time is only one measure of a car; the ideal machine (to me) would have the luxury and build quality of the Audi and the light weight of the WRX, with plenty of speed.
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  12. #11
    Registered User Tuco's Avatar
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    Ok...can't let this discussion go by without weighing in. I have an '03 A4 Avant. Like the earlier discussions....the interior and ergonomics are about the best I've seen for just about any price range. And of course beauty is in the eye of the beholder and I too think the latest body style is pretty sharp.

    Now on to the performance issue. Mine has the factory sport suspension and it WILL out handle a stock WRX. I've test driven the subie several times and found that it wouldn't take much to induce push (probably the tires giving away more than anything). In terms of HP, I have an APR chip and custom exhaust that's pretty free flowing (no resonators). Compared to a stock A4, it gets up and moves a lot better and as someone said earlier...I'd swear too that on the freeway @ 80 it pulls harder than from a stop. Dipping into the throttle in top gear feels like you went into a passing gear.

    But all of this still doesn't bring my wagon anywhere near the performance of a stock WRX. It's burdened with more weight and regardless of what the chip developers' dyno plot shows, it certainly doesn't feel like I had hoped it would. Hell, I even dropped in some 110 octane gas the other night to see what would happen.

    Now with all this said, and as much as I love the looks and interior, I'll either be looking to get an STi or possibly buy a regular sedan and do the turbo upgrades some of you have done. The funny thing is I could easily buy an S4 when it comes out, but the hot rodder in me just doesn't see any fun in this. I love the idea of taking this totally inconspicuous import and tearing new holes in machines easily two to three times its cost. And just to really set the board off, I've even been circling the Evo. I like it's exterior styling, incredible seats, and way cool brakes (not too hip on the wing though). But I'm in no hurry as I have plenty on my plate for the next 6 months. By that time the STi will be out, the hysteria will have started to die down (as well as the markup)...and well see what happens.

    T.

  13. #12
    Registered User WRX135's Avatar
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    So this is all saying that a Stock audi A4 with an exhaust and ECU upgrade will equal 235 HP? and could beat a wrx?? and this is saying that just exhaust and ecu adds 65 hp dont A4's come with 170 HP stock?? sorry if im wrong i just want to know, and what kind of exhaust can do this and ecu chip and how much?
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    yes 65 hp! Why that much? because its called Raising the boost.

    shi#t the s4s can be updated from 250-310 just from a chip.
    and i am shure (i dont know too much about modding the wrxs) the wrxs can be raised like that too.

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    Originally posted by Tuco
    Ok...can't let this discussion go by without weighing in. I have an '03 A4 Avant. Like the earlier discussions....the interior and ergonomics are about the best I've seen for just about any price range. And of course beauty is in the eye of the beholder and I too think the latest body style is pretty sharp.

    Now on to the performance issue. Mine has the factory sport suspension and it WILL out handle a stock WRX. I've test driven the subie several times and found that it wouldn't take much to induce push (probably the tires giving away more than anything). In terms of HP, I have an APR chip and custom exhaust that's pretty free flowing (no resonators). Compared to a stock A4, it gets up and moves a lot better and as someone said earlier...I'd swear too that on the freeway @ 80 it pulls harder than from a stop. Dipping into the throttle in top gear feels like you went into a passing gear.

    But all of this still doesn't bring my wagon anywhere near the performance of a stock WRX. It's burdened with more weight and regardless of what the chip developers' dyno plot shows, it certainly doesn't feel like I had hoped it would. Hell, I even dropped in some 110 octane gas the other night to see what would happen.

    Now with all this said, and as much as I love the looks and interior, I'll either be looking to get an STi or possibly buy a regular sedan and do the turbo upgrades some of you have done. The funny thing is I could easily buy an S4 when it comes out, but the hot rodder in me just doesn't see any fun in this. I love the idea of taking this totally inconspicuous import and tearing new holes in machines easily two to three times its cost. And just to really set the board off, I've even been circling the Evo. I like it's exterior styling, incredible seats, and way cool brakes (not too hip on the wing though). But I'm in no hurry as I have plenty on my plate for the next 6 months. By that time the STi will be out, the hysteria will have started to die down (as well as the markup)...and well see what happens.

    T.
    audi avant= heavy try comapring a sedan

  16. #15
    Registered User Tuco's Avatar
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    Originally posted by audirs6
    audi avant= heavy try comapring a sedan
    Ok, 111 lbs difference good for .2 of second less to 60 w/ stock 1.8t. No matter how it's sliced...it's still slow.

    T.

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