WRX vs. S4 Part II

[dug-e-fresh]

Stock for stock, the margin is not worth comparing. From a roll the S4 probably will win. Top end it will probably win...but does it matter. Driven very well, a WRX will show an S4 one hell of a run, win or lose, especially in the 0-80mph realm where most "street" racing or redlight racing will occur within. I guarantee that the S4 owner will be surprised...

I mean for a car that has 2 more cylinders, 0.7 liters more displacement, 1 extra turbo, 1 extra gear, 23 more hp and 41 more ft/lbs torque available from a low 1850rpms and costs 15 grand more.... I think the WRX does quite well. Sure its lighter... thats its only advantage...

Mod to Mod, I am not scared of an S4. If you do the full fledged magical "chip" and ECU re-flash they gain 60hp and 100ft/lbs of torque!!! 100ft/lbs!!.... and with just Vishnu Stage 0 I can run with it no problem. I lost, but it was all in the launch... dont blame the car, blame the driver!!

Doug

[scoob]

Man Doug!

You make life so much easier for the rest of us so called paper racers! I mean seat-of-the-pants, or ass racers are so much more accurate than some dumb-ass magazine that has been testing cars for the past 30 years or so.
And I don't care what they say, leather seats and a power sunroof just really make a car feel faster!
I'm like what the hell is this man. Are we soft or what? the only thing the stock S4 has on the stock wrx is creature comforts. I think creature comforts are for wimps in a real sports car. You just don't need them.
All that matters on the street is 0-60 or 1/4 mile that's it! If you plan on doing 100mph on a public street your an idiot!
You don't care about anyone but yourself, and life really must not mean anything at all to you.
Sure the s4 will pull away from 100 mph, but who gives a damn! I'm not going over that on the freeway, and so I'd never do that in the city.
Is it just me or does anyone else find 100 mph urban treking insane?
If you get beat by a stock s4 with a stock wrx you are a bad driver. Learn how to drive. It's that simple

[Penguinking]

the fastest i've ever gone on the streed ( in an urban setting) is 75 mph. out in the country i'll usually top 100. going any faster than 70 in the city is dangerous. but whatever, i guess thats what the thrill is for some people

[EuroA4]

New to this forum, and I was just curious who has run up against any A4's (modded or not)?

As for the debate over the S4 and the WRX...I must say that I am biased, but the S4 is faster in a stock vs. stock comparison.

[dark_rex]

i've never lost to an a4. kidding around or serious. the 2.8's are more fun, but the 1.8's do a little better in the 60' range. s4's? i've only played with one, and he killed me on the top end. i'm bone stock though. once i get a gauge for my mbc, i'll be a little better.

not really a good comparison with the a4.

dR

[Suparu]

Originally posted by dark_rex
i've never lost to an a4. kidding around or serious. the 2.8's are more fun, but the 1.8's do a little better in the 60' range. s4's? i've only played with one, and he killed me on the top end. i'm bone stock though. once i get a gauge for my mbc, i'll be a little better.

not really a good comparison with the a4.

dR

Yeah,

The A4 is not a good comparison, V6 or 1.8T. The chipped and modded 1.8T is a good race, but we are talking stock for stock so that wouldn't be objective. I lost to a modified Golf 1.8T with exhaust and Neuspeed chip, it was very fast and no lag whatsoever. I had a very good launch against it, but into second the drivetrain shock lost a lot of momentum. And from there the Golf took a lead and kept the lead. It wasn't pulling after that but the little hick up I got gave him the slight lead.

The S4 rules the WRX in my opinion.

[dug-e-fresh]

The S4 rules the WRX in my opinion

Your are entitled to your opinion, of course....but I would have to disagree....if for no other reasons than waht I stated above. You get alot more engine with not so much more gain in performance.

Stock to Stock.... its a drivers race no matter how you look at. Over 100mph.... go ahead give it to the Audi...afterall it does possess a 6 speed and overall better gear ratios....it had better do better as a result!

Mod to Mod.... give both cars $1,500 and the change is minimal. But you would think that given the edge in the "engine" category the Audi, that for your extra $1500 of moddin' you would get more bang for your buck in terms of gains....

For my WRX and that guys Chipped S4, it was damn close....damn close. It really came down to me not being on point. We both invested about the same amount of $$, thus the $1500 I use as an example.

From my actual experience, I highly respect the S4... but I do not fear it by no means...... the A4, well it tries, but thats not really a competition. I raced one of those stock to stock with the WRX.....it was ugly and I missed 2nd too and still destroyed it. By missed I mean I didnt get it in 2nd the first time, but did get it in 2nd the second time......

Now the new Golf 1.8t withs its 180hp seems to be a real good start. Car and Driver just tested one 0-60 in 6.5! Not bad for FWD.... things are gonna get interesting if they ever bring over the haldex Golf AWD 1.8t.............

[scoob]

I ain't afraid of no Volks......(Audi's included since they're just blown up Volkswagens.)

[Suparu]

Originally posted by scoob
I ain't afraid of no Volks......(Audi's included since they're just blown up Volkswagens.)

Well, you should be. There are a lot of them lurking around on the street, and they will make you look bad if you are not careful. See, the public expects our car to totally kick ass, so even just a regular win by half a car length will not do it. This 1.8T was quick, and I don't believe it is the 180HP engine since this was a while back. The 180HP and 150HP engine are identical, but they have a different turbocharger. I think they can extract more from their turbo then we can from ours.

The S4 is king my friend. I know the price comparison is not close, but they have more upside potential if you are talking strictly modifying. The STi's I have seen in Japan runs close to 400HP with stock internals and fuel system, but not much more. The S4's can run upward of 400HP easy with a bigger engine, and if money is not an issue, then the S4 will definitely rule.

Like I said, I love my car, but I never thought for a second that it would be an S4 killer.

[scoob]

Twin Turbos are far less efficient than a single just ask SSC mag.
Why do you think there are so many single turbo from twin turbo conversions on such cars as the Supra?
The Audi can't even keeps its windows up so how's it going to maintain its tranny with a goddzillion HP. Besides the damn thing weighs a ton (about four of them with driver or so). The S4 is overated.
I tell you what you get your buddies S4 and I'll get my WRX and show you how it's done.

[dug-e-fresh]

I have never heard Audi having the aftermarket support to make any huge gains...

Now Volkswagon does in the 1.8t and the VR6, but Audi does not use the VR6 (in the US) and the the 1.8t mod for mod just cant hang with the EJ20 in our WRX.

The S4 owner I spoke to was highly knowledgable about his car. But even he seemed to understand that the 2.7 liter just does not have that much stuff out for it. Sure you can upgrade the turbos... you can do that to any turbo car... but have you seen the engine bay of an S4? Even without all the pretty packaging, the engine compartment is PACKED! Working on them things looks to a bitch! Reminds me of a 300ZX... and with them, just about every semi-major to major mod requires pulling the engine!

Like I said, I respect the S4... and I would love for my torque to peak at 1850 rpms... but its NOT king. I have raced stock ones before... I did not mention it because I did not want to hear the "your comparing modified to stock" complaint. Anyway, I walked all over it! And that was from a rolling start! All I have is Vishnu Stage 0 and an SBC i-D boost controller. Since the majority of S4s (basically all of them but 1 I have actually ran into) are stock, I believe that I am already driving an S4 killer!

S4s are heavy, too. 3600lbs+. But like I said, thats the WRXs only advantage!

Personally, looking for a king of the 4 door world... I would look to the M5 in the US and the STi or EVO over seas.

The M5, long praised for its amazing abilities, was claimed to be the fastest saloon on the planet (I have the commercial in .mpg)....You could say IT was king... well needless to say, Subaru owners of the STi went up in arms over it and openly challenged the BMW owners to a shoot out at some track in Europe. I dont know all the details, but from what I understand, BMW contacted all the M5 owners and basically told them that if they participated that their service/warranties would be null and void. Subaru did not do that. Bowing out "gracefully"?... Or just plain scared?

I believe that move passed the crown on to the STi.

Doug

[quickdraw]

Yeah the M5 used to be my favorite 4-door car but since they are releasing the Audi RS6 in Europe, I think it is now at the top of my list. Can you say biturbo V8 pushing 450bhp plus AWD.

Audiworld

[dbenyaacov]

One thing to keep in mind is that the stock S4's boost is set very low. I guess that Audi wanted to limit the boost for long term reliability, but that is just speculation.

A simple chip mod on the S4 will give good performance gains. Here is an actual S4 aftermarket chip reprogrammer with a $600 mod that gives the S4 a claimed 307hp-366lb-ft.

http://www.euro-car-service.com/00a6...ge(center).htm

While I am waiting for a TurboXS unichip (when will mine come in?)-- the unichip will not give near as much of a jump-- and that is because the stock WRX boost is set much higher than the Audi's, and thus has less room to boost.

AstroDavid

[dug-e-fresh]

The guy that I ran/raced into that was chipped/reflashed said that he had an additional 60hp and 100ft/lbs of torque.

That would put him at 310/358 repectively. According to him, stock the S4s turbos jointly supply 10psi of boost. With his chip/reflash boost has been raised to what he said was "about 1 bar". So I would say hes running 15psi +/- 0.5psi.

What he also told me (and showed me) is that the S4s stock recirc valves (BOVs) were plastic (ie- 2nd Gen DSM/3000GT VR4) and wont hold the boost the chip/reflash gives.... so, he upgraded both of them to metal units... his total investment was about $1500....

Doug

[2001S4]

Originally posted by dug-e-fresh
The guy that I ran/raced into that was chipped/reflashed said that he had an additional 60hp and 100ft/lbs of torque.

That would put him at 310/358 repectively. According to him, stock the S4s turbos jointly supply 10psi of boost. With his chip/reflash boost has been raised to what he said was "about 1 bar". So I would say hes running 15psi +/- 0.5psi.

What he also told me (and showed me) is that the S4s stock recirc valves (BOVs) were plastic (ie- 2nd Gen DSM/3000GT VR4) and wont hold the boost the chip/reflash gives.... so, he upgraded both of them to metal units... his total investment was about $1500....

Doug

That info is acurate. Almost all the chips for the S4 give about those gains (50-60 HP and about 100 lb/ft). The info on the valves are pretty accurate except the S4 uses BPVs and not BOVs. The turbos on the S4 are rather small to allow for quick spool up, giving full torque as low as 1850 RPMs. Raising the boost much higher than 15 psi will most often cause problems with turbos. However, at 15 psi, the car will run a sub 5 second 0-60 and low 13 second 1/4 mile. Although I do love my car, the one thing that I do like more about the WRX is the feeling you get when the turbo kicks in. You don't get the same rush in the S4 as you do in the WRX due to a more steady increase in power starting so low in the power band. Stock for stock, the cars are near identical in performance. Stop comparing them trying to figure out which is faster. Start enjoying your cars and just be happy that you got a great car and a definite bargain.