WRX kills 16G packin' FWD DSM(from a roll)

[scoob]

Oh I almost forgot. Ohio represent......hooooohoooooooo!!!!
Comin from the TOL. baby. Much luv to the C-towns......

[DannyM5]

... I hate driving through Ohio... the cops are ridiculous... We almost always get pulled over driving through... but I have family there, so its all good.

Interesting facts about DSM... I had no clue they were THAT bad... I always thought they were pretty unreliable...

Even my father said that Subarus are good cars... even though he is pretty anti-japanese cars himself.

[PlatinumWRX]

For clarification DSM stands for Diamond Star Motors, which was a combined Mitsubishi (Triple-Diamond) Chrysler (Pentagon-Star) effort which included the afformentioned Talons, Eclipses, and Lasers, as well as the cross-marketed Galant and Mirage platforms.

For me, anything involving Chrsyler=Poor Reliability.

-Jim

[dug-e-fresh]

well not to commit blasphemy...but if a 4g63 is done up right it will bring the pain in terms of power and speed.

I unfortunately have lost to many a modified DSM. But they have extreme motorsports and Bucshur racing in their corner with their cars running 8s on the stock block 4g63.

A 16g turbo, front mount IC, boost controller, injectors, exhaust, intake, AFC, fuel pump, fuel rail, spark plugs will get a DSM into the 12s relatively easy. 16g's can power those cars into the 11s with little sweat if tuned properly.

I raced a car with similiar mods that the originator of this thread raced....and while I took him up to about 80-90 mph....he just rolled out after that. His clutch was going up and he had a vaccum leak. He was launching like grandma.....it kinda sucked. I would bang him off the line. i would hear his turbo spool....and then when out of 3rd it was done....there was nothing I could do. Now I estimate I am running 13.3-13.4 now (hopefully). Thats G-tech backed up too. Soon to be track backed (2/22/02)

One night before my stage 0, I was romped by a whole group of DSMs down in DC. I hate to admit it....for my cousin drives a stock (soon to be modded) '97 Talon Tsi AWD. He rags on me all the time about it.....but I will have my revenge!

There is just so much aftermarket support for those motors. yeah they have their problems....but while they are running they can outrun me.......

660cc injectors for a DSM will cost you about $80 a pop....us on the other hand, to get "measly" 565cc's cost about twice that per injector!! thats sucks!!

Time will change that, but for now....DSMs are the king of the small motor turbo cars....(bang for the buck)...the WRX will dethrone them though, regardless of the Lancer. The Lancer EVO still uses the 4g63 motor....and will retain the strengths and weaknesses of that motor. Both the WRX and the new EVO have come under fire for their new looks....it will be interesting who will win in thee end....especially if Subaru refreshes the WRX front end in a year or 2 as they have been rumored to be planning on doing.

hondas new inline 4s (and the B18 series) are pretty sweet sounding....yeah they sounds as if they are gonna rip themselves apart....but you gotta love it!

Doug

[DannyM5]

The ITR engine sounds like its gonna explode once it hits Vtech, but I have to admit, I like it.

I did not know that the Evo had the same engine as the other DSM's... I do know that the DSMs are easily modified, b/c they are so popular... while the WRX just came out last year... and the Impreza 2.5RS only came out in 98. I think they are catching up pretty fast though considering how much stuff is already available.

[dug-e-fresh]

yeah I agree....things are coming along nicely for the WRX.

However alot of that I give credit to the overseas aftermarket.

WRXs have been going through the same modifications over in Japan/Europe/Australia for almost as long as the DSMs have been over here.

And while the EVO motor is built more than its US brethren (forged rods/pistons) and I think the block has a cradle they are pretty much the same motor. The good ol' 4G63.

The EVO also comes stock with a 16g turbo....a popular upgrade among the DSM world. That turbo with the proper renforcing mods (injectors, fuel pumps, ect....) can get you into the 11s!!

But from what I have read the troubles that have plagued the US motor has and still does plague the EVO version....ie- crank walk and broken timing belts being some of the most severe failures.

Still its a pretty good motor having a cast iron block and all. Now the EJ20 is all aluminum with steel sleeves....I am sure it will be durable....but thats more of a design thing rather than relying on stronger materials...

The EJ20 is inherently balanced because of the flat configuration
No extra moving parts needed to dampen the engine (CRB shafts)
and its cylinder geometry is has a short stroke with a big bore, this reduces stresses as the engines revs....and really should allow the engine to rev higher, as the STi model does. The STi redlines at 8k.

Its gonna be fun to see what Mitsubishi has in store for the 4G63 in the US market.........

Doug

[Baluchitherium4]

I know exactly what the 4G63 is capable of. I used to own one and loved it. I've been to Buschur's shop many times picking up parts for the car. The car I used to own was a 91' Eclipse that ran 12's.

I ran a similiarly modded AWD DSM a few nights ago. It was in a little better tune than the FWD I beat. The race was from a stop up to about 110. He pulled a fender on me. That's it. The best 1/4 for the DSM was a 13.0@106. I'm sure I can get him to post about it if you don't believe it. Him and I are good friends. The car he has now has my old motor out of my 12 sec. Eclipse.

Later,

Dale

BTW, the 1/4 time in my sig. was on the CAI and a boost controller at stock boost. I'll have new times around the end of February.

[dug-e-fresh]

yeah I too will have new times....Feb 22, 2002. Three more weeks!!

I expect to run low 13s....if I dont, a turbo upgrade will come shortly after...real shortly after! He he he .....

And I never said that I didnt believe, I am just simply pointing out that a properly tuned 16g turbo equipped DSM with all the necessary hardware to keep it running safely (gotta keep things rich) will run deep into the 12s....

Doug

[Quantum-Racing.com]

Hey Dale! This is Mark Myers. I think you should run my old GSX that James has. Try picking on an 18G with all the toys. LOL Anyhoo, we are gonna have to hook up sometime to do some work on our cars. So far I have Stainless Brake lines, Ram Pod intake and a Link Standalone ECU on the way. That'll be nice. AFC, AVCR, ITC, VPC...

[nmyeti]

Originally posted by Baluchitherium4
Some of us left the local DSM meeting Saturday night and headed over to Jegs to hang out. We took 270 to Main. While on 270, there was one of the guys from the club (not to mention any names) with a 1G FWD that has quite a few bolt ons. Complete exhaust, 550's, K&N, BIG 16G, and a boost controller set at 20psi. He may of had a S-AFC, but I don't remember for sure. Someone correct me if I'm wrong. The WRX has a boost controller set at 16psi, an Injen CAI, and a Cobb 3" cat-back. Now, on to the race.
Dale

Dale,
He would have had to have at least a Super AFC or some sort of fuel control to run the 550cc injectors. I am suprised you pulled him top end. A big 16G puts out quite a bit more air at 20psi than anything our little stock turbos can manage. My guess, and don't take this the wrong way, is that his knock count was through the roof as 20psi on pump gas and 550cc injectors is kind of a lot for sea level and will take some tuning to get right.

I had a good race with a 1G AWD Big 16G car (FMIC, cams, VPC, AFC, built motor, 20psi, weight reduction, and several other little modifications). It was as i say a good race, he has more modifications than i do really, but i managed to walk away from him with little trouble. We know that he was running low 12s before his last round of mods, in fact almost even with me (me 12.3 him 12.4 at 109 to my 110) and then we both change our setups to go quite a bit faster (him cams, VPC, built motor, more boost to my new turbo and new unichip program) and i still came out on top. It always feels good to put it to a DSM in a friendly race like this

[RNN14]

From what all the Evo7 owners are saying here in Japan the new Evo7's are the best ones ever built. Not too many people can run 1.4Bar of boost on stock injectors, ECU, turbo, FMIC, piping, exhaust and everything else. All they are adding to them is a boost controller to start with. Plus for about $21K US out the door Subaru would have to pull off some serious schiznit to make up for the price difference. I like the Subaru but the new Evo's are nothing to laugh at.

Edit: RNN, keep it clean for me. -Jim

[Baluchitherium4]

Mark,

What's up? We'll definately have to get together and do some work on our cars sometime. Let me know when you get the Link. I want to check that out. I hope to have an up-pipe in a few weeks. God is out of them right now. That piece will be a nice PITA to put in. Let me know if you want to help out or watch the install. I'm sure it'll help you out when you do yours. Oh, I gladly run your old GSX. I'm sure I'll lose but it's all in good fun.

Nathan,

I've came to that conclusion also. There were definately some tuning issues there. He should have a fuel pump to be able to run that kind of boost on pump gas. I think he is definately getting some knock and the ECU is pulling the timing. I used to have a 1G FWD with similiar mods and there is no way my WRX pulled like it did on the top end....not yet anyway!

Later,

Dale

[dug-e-fresh]

Noway a brand new EVO VII in any form will be released for $21k......no freakin way.......you cant just do yen to dollar conversions and quote them as actual price.

try doing a yen to dollar conversion on an STi or WRX.....

<$25k would suprise me.... I think the EVO will be a direct competitor with a WRX STi. I dont think they are gonna make a middle of the road EVO like our WRX is. They are gonna go head to head with something.......and its gonna be the STi.

Doug

[RNN14]

I can do that conversion but then again I live in Japan so getting great cars is easy to do. Mitsubishi of America will screw the pricing all up. Totally ingore Diamlers policy on building one car for a world market. Which allows for more cars to be sold requiring them to be sold at a lower price. Instead they will raise the crap out of the price until they over price it and have a hard time selling and if that doesn't get the people then those who do have them still have to deal with Satan in the form of the dealerships. Might as well sell the damn cars without the warranty. Its not like they do too much work under warranty on the Eclipses.

[DannyM5]

Ha, that is so true... with all manufacturers...

The only thing is, new cars without warranties wont sell at all... I know many people that buy new cars simply b/c of the warranty.