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This is a discussion on WRX vs. 95 BMW M3 within the Comparison: WRX vs World forums, part of the Community - Meet other Enthusiasts category; Doug, Let's face facts, a lot of guys with turbo kits on their Civic Si have no freakin clue what ...

  1. #16
    Registered User PlatinumWRX's Avatar
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    Doug,

    Let's face facts, a lot of guys with turbo kits on their Civic Si have no freakin clue what they are doing, they just have a lot of money to throw at their car.

    The only turbo Honda that I fear has, at a minimum, a four angle valve job, stiffer valve springs, and has dropped the compression at least into the 9.0:1-9.5:1 range. I have no idea what C.R a Honda motor runs forstock, but I think it is like 10.5:1, definitely not turbo-friendly. The WRX runs a meager 8.0:1 compression and that is why it can handle mad boost.

    With the right builder and tuner, the GS-R turbo is awesome. I have to respect any street car with triple-digit 1/4 mile trap speeds!

    As for traction, well, sub-2.0s 60' times are why I love my WRX!

    -Jim

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  3. #17
    Registered User GREDDY's Avatar
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    Well, I know the 2001 Integra Type R is all stock, except for the t3/t4 hybrid turbo that was put on a few months back. We havent raced yet so I dont know the outcome. I have other friends that witnessed his low 14 quarter mile run at Bandimere Run ways. I'm in Colorado, so its not so easy to hit 14's here. You wouldnt believe what some cars are hitting here. Ex: 93-98 Supra TT's are hitting 16's in the quarter. Could be bad drivers.

  4. #18
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    Awesome story and great kills! :thumbsup:

    I thought an M3 would be faster....but I guess not! I know if I had an M3, I'd be furious with getting beaten by anything (not to say that an M3 will smoke anything).


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    As a BMW driver, I feel I must defend my standpoint on this...

    you say an M3 is not reliable? well, that raises the question.. have you ever had one?? all the 3series cars after 97 came with the metal impeller water pump... and except for a few unfortunate drivers the Vanos system will work flawlessly.. my brothers 1993 325is had 196k miles on it when he sold it and the Vanos system worked perfect... Ill even attach pictures of the engine (or a link to the pictures)

    Also... I have yet to encounter a car that can be driven as hard, for as long a period of time, without messing up... BMWs are the only cars I know of that drive better the harder you drive them... I dont think you can say that for anything else...

    as far as the races you say you beat the M3s,... you probably did, but you also say you are in Colorado... and you have forced induction and he doesnt... so you don't feel the power loss from altitude... while he takes a major hit.... If you were at sea level you would have much more trouble beating an M3 with a good driver... considering they run 0-60 in 5.5 with a good driver.. and possibly 5.4 and I've seen a 13.9 1/4 mile on a stock M3 sedan with a good driver... those numbers are better than the stock WRX...

    if you have any questions regarding the BMW feel free to ask, I can probably answer most of them....

    ok apparently photopoint no longer works... but I will have my brother email me the pictures.... they were taken when the car had 173k miles and was getting the timing chain replaced.

  6. #20
    Banned dark_rex's Avatar
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    i'm with danny. my family has a long standing with beemers. aside from the traction issues in the rain and snow, it's one of the best cars in the world. (540, M package)

    and see if our little suby's run to 196K without any probs. i'm all for suby's longevity, but THAT's bang for the buck. not to mention i bet the car still rides awesome.


    dR

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    the race was with a '95 M3, not a post '97 M3....so the plastic impeller stands true.

    [QUOTE]Also... I have yet to encounter a car that can be driven as hard, for as long a period of time, without messing up... BMWs are the only cars I know of that drive better the harder you drive them... I dont think you can say that for anything else... /[QUOTE]

    I dont think you can even say that about BMWs let alone anything else.....For every >$30k BMW with 200,000 miles I bet I can show you a <$20k car with more miles....ever heard of Honda? What about Toyota? They have been making THEE most reliable cars on the road for decades! Most of which cost 1/3 of your average BMW.

    The best published 0-60 and 1/4 times for the WRX are 5.4 and 14.1 respectively....this was in Car and Driver. Heres some M3 specs:

    All on manuals 5 speeds....
    1999 M3 6.0/14.6 (convertible I think) C&D 9/99
    1998 M3 5.5/14.0 MT 8/98
    1997 M3 5.5/14.0 MT 4/97
    1997 M3 5.5/14.0 C&D 8/97
    1995 M3 6.2/14.6 NA

    Looks pretty close to me for the E36....the 95s are questionable though....not sure if that was a convertible or auto...the WRX has the 60 and the M3 has the 1/4.....both by a measly tenth of a second. With that narrow a margin between the 2 cars....I see no conclusive proof that ones quicker/faster than the other.

    Bang for the Buck is good...........but, which car do you think is cheaper/easier to fix? The M3 or the WRX?

    Im putting my money on the Subie........

    Platinum-

    most "kids" that turbo their cars have mommy and daddy paying for it and have it sent it to a shop for the work....

    What I fear from a Honda is a car with the compression ratio left stock, turboed w/~10 psi boost and tuned properly......which all the ones that I have ran into have been. You get more Hp leaving the Compression Ratio alone....yeah you cant run as much boost, but you dont need to. The only reason you should lower CR is if you plan to REALLY boost your motor.

    Knowone gives credit to these "kids" that turbo there cars....saying that they dont know what they are doing. I am sorry....anyone who can put an entire turbo kit on an NA car and still have it run afterwards has some know-how....and if they didn't do it themselves....then a shop probably did it.....and if the shop did it I am pretty sure they have some experience doing it, thus odds are it will be done right.......and it will be fast.


    dug
    '02 WRX - 10.780 @ 136.23
    '07 TBSS - 13.466 @ 103.23

  8. #22
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    Dug,

    not all BMW's are $30k+ it is possible to buy one used... I'm not sure if parts for BMW's cost more or less than parts for a subaru... but I am sure that considering how often you have to do maintenance and stuff it will even out. And the plastic waterpump impellor would be regarded as regular maintenance... and now I am sure that most of the BMW's are running the metal impellor water pumps b/c bmw doesn't make the plastic ones anymore....

    I see your numbers are from magazines.. which are not a bad basis... but my brothers 95 M3 stock ran a 0-60 in 5.3... im not sure about the 1/4 mile though...

    I have heard of hondas and toyotas,... and I dont believe that a honda or a toyota driven hard will last anywhere close to as long as a bmw... my brothers car with 196k miles had a life of hell... it was driven hard 90% of the time and that engine ran perfect. I couldn't count how many bmw's I've seen over 200k miles... or 300k miles for that matter. My father owns a dealership with a service center and I've gotten to be around german cars all my life... it is hard to find a car that will run as good as a bmw... I know honda's and toyota's are an exception... I haven't heard of many subaru's over 200k miles... but my father has told me that hes seen a number of them over 180k miles... and he says they have good engines... so I don't doubt that they are reliable cars...

    For someone to say that no german car will last as long as a japanese car seems like a comment made in ignorance...

    Another difference between german and japanese cars is the german cars feel more solid... ever close the hood on an E36 BMW? I'd suggest you try it sometime.... it brings a smile to my face every time... it just closes with a click and thats it... not the resonance of japanese cars

    Edit: Dark_Rex: those 540i Sports are awesome cars... is it a 6spd? or an Auto? (for anyone thats interested, the 6spd runs 0-60 in 5.4 and the auto runs 0-60 in 5.7 for the 2001 and 5.9 for the other models.... not bad for a 4000lb family car)--> as far as the difference between the times for the 2001 I'm not sure why, but I know thats what my friend ran at the track in his auto.
    Last edited by DannyM5; 01-30-2002 at 11:55 AM.

  9. #23
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    I have heard of hondas and toyotas,... and I dont believe that a honda or a toyota driven hard will last anywhere close to as long as a bmw
    gotta disagree with you there. i've driven honda's and toyotas all my life (my own cars, and the family business's fleet of 9 trucks) nothin lasts like a japanese car. not even german.

    NO ONE beats those trucks like the drivers we have. all are from age 17 to 23, and are TOUGH ON THOSE THINGS for nine hours a day. sometimes they are left running all day in the summer outside.

    we just transplanted a 94 pickup engine from one truck to another (driver totalled it) sucker's got 310K on it, and it drives AWESOME. i think its got another 100 in it easy. (if the body holds out )



    I'm not sure if parts for BMW's cost more or less than parts for a subaru... but I am sure that considering how often you have to do maintenance and stuff it will even out.
    NO WAY! a bmw brake job is almost $450 !!! how about a down pipe replacement? try that on a suby! (or any jap car)

    just to give you a clue here, my father stocks multiple pipes for all model years of hondas, toyotas, subarus. BUT only special orders the stuff for a bmw or mercedes. becasue there are so many more on the road, economies of scale allow for much cheaper replacement costs. as far as frequency of servicing, both should be identical. oil changes, brakes, tires etc, (all things being equal) should fall directly in line. a bmw is MUCH more expensive to maintain than a suby, or any other jap car.

    dR

    ps, he wouldn't get the 6 speed. we both drove it, but he couldn't justify going back to a standard at his age. i told him he was wasting his money (maybe a tad overdramatic) and he said "fine, you don't have to drive it"

    <sigh>

  10. #24
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    hmm... a brake job costs$450 if you take it to the dealer...

    I know parts are more expensive for a BMW, but its not that much more... and for what your getting I honestly believe its worth the money...

    Hmm I know toyota's and honda's will last a long time... didn't i say that?... hmm... Well.. my friend had an integra type R... hand built engine and all that... and in 12k miles he had 2 transmissions put in it... hows that for reliable?? and that wasn't even driving it as hard as my brother drove his 325is.... and my brothers car had 196k miles on stock engine, transmission, clutch... differential... it did need a fuel pump in the 180k's b/c of the neglected fuel filter... and I think it had to get a starter, but everything else was just service for it... so it was by no means an unreliable car.

    if its any consolation... our master tech just bought his wife a toyota corolla S.... and he loves it.

    As far as more cars on the road yielding lower costs... this is true, but that is also why BMW only has a few engines that they use in all of their models... 328, 528, 330, 530, 540, 740.... etc.

    Another thing is the driving experience.... Which on behalf of the WRX I was surprised, b/c usually its hard to find a car that drives like a BMW... but the WRX seems to be very BMW-like by my standards... except for the brakes of course...

    Another thing... if German cars are such crap... why do all the car companies want to be like them? ever notice how new cars resemble more and more bmw's and mercedes? theres gotta be a reason for it.

    Edit: that reminds me of another friend of mine who switches cars often... in the past year hes gone through a vette, viper, 540i, stealth RT twin turbo, and now he has an escalade....

    of all of them he liked the 540 the most b/c it was the only car that didnt break down on him.... and this guy knows how to abuse his cars... no break in time... just dogged the hell out of them all... he still has the stealth as his fast car, b/c he got the engine rebuilt after he blew it, with forged pistons, crank, rods, bigger turbos... the only thing is his clutches dont last but a few weeks.
    Last edited by DannyM5; 01-30-2002 at 01:56 PM.

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    I finally got the pics of the engine... here they go... 1st off.. the mileage of the car when the timing chain was replaced
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 001.jpg  

  12. #26
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    the car, to show that it wasn't a different car
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    now the engine
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    number 2
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    number 3
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    and this is the last one
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