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This is a discussion on WRX vs Ion Redline within the Comparison: WRX vs World forums, part of the Community - Meet other Enthusiasts category; there was a cobalt ss post on here a couple weeks ago, and its obviously gonna have the same arguments, ...

  1. #46
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    there was a cobalt ss post on here a couple weeks ago, and its obviously gonna have the same arguments, but the FWD setup is great as far as getting more bang for your buck, because there's extremely minimal driveline loss.

    last weekend i went for a drive with a friend of a friend in his brand new ss, and it was definitely not slow, i mean, i was drunk out of my mind, hence me being a passenger, and not having my car with me, but if anybody wants to know how it goes, i can race him this weekend, and let you know, i'm a more than capable driver, and the kid who owns the ss really isn't but i can have one of my good buddies who put down amazing et's on thier own cars drive it for him. one of them put down a 14 flat on his stock 350z, and he's just an outstanding driver altogether. we're all going up to schaumburg, then probably hitting the city if anybody from chicagoland wants to come pm me, and i'll give ya the details. but yeah, FWD is always easier on the wallet, there's really awesome power packages from a few companies for the cobalt ss, and the saturn RL, and they're gonna be serious contenders this year as far as the track goes.. i'll post if i race the SS this weekend, let you guys know, and i promise i can drive, i've been driving stick since i've been able to drive at all.
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  3. #47
    Registered User ArizonaWRX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DTR rex View Post
    Here (below) is your post that started it all... The very essence of what we have been discussing... and this how the debate came to be, with your post about the auto wrx (06' specifically) beating an Ion RL.



    Please review your post, or for that matter, all posts you have made in this thread because you seem to have difficulties making relevant relations to previously posted material.. Even if it was posted by yourself

    I never stated the SS had superior 0-60 and 1/4mile times compared to a 5mt wrx. Seems you just pulled that one completely out of your ass crack. And as for the modding issue, I still do not see why you are arguing that the wrx will make more whp mod for mod compared to a wrx, when that is simply not true (manual vs manual). I posted actual numbers, and you have not.
    Please revise your strategy and get back to me.
    Numbers? I have been making observations and trying to post up links for people to check out numbers and decide for themselves.But since I don't own a redline, and in all honesty, I don't care, I will post this and be done with it; these threads are getting silly. Even the auto WRX, (still faster in 0-60, over the SS, thanks AWD) which runs 1/4 mile in 14.8 according to edmunds, beats the redline, whose 1/4 manual is 15.3. Here is link for that, as well as a ton of other cars 0-60s, and 1/4 times, from motor trend, and other magazines:
    http://www.albeedigital.com/supercou...0-60times.html

    Either way, it would be close, and a driver's race. To be honest at this point, I don't care, so I am just goin to sit back and enjoy my WRX. Like Slick Rick said in another post, it is funny how serious people take their bench racing.

    If someone is that bent on proving their car is so faster than another, or could do this or that with mods, go for it, find out, and let us know.

    We should be lucky to have a ride, and such nice ones that at! Later guys, enjoy your rides!
    Last edited by ArizonaWRX; 11-02-2006 at 02:21 AM.

  4. #48
    Registered User DTR rex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArizonaWRX View Post
    Numbers? I have been making observations and trying to post up links for people to check out numbers and decide for themselves.But since I don't own a redline, and in all honesty, I don't care, I will post this and be done with it; these threads are getting silly. Even the auto WRX, (still faster in 0-60, over the SS, thanks AWD) which runs 1/4 mile in 14.8 according to edmunds, beats the redline, whose 1/4 manual is 15.3. Here is link for that, as well as a ton of other cars 0-60s, and 1/4 times, from motor trend, and other magazines:
    http://www.albeedigital.com/supercou...0-60times.html

    Either way, it would be close, and a driver's race. To be honest at this point, I don't care, so I am just goin to sit back and enjoy my WRX. Like Slick Rick said in another post, it is funny how serious people take their bench racing.

    If someone is that bent on proving their car is so faster than another, or could do this or that with mods, go for it, find out, and let us know.

    We should be lucky to have a ride, and such nice ones that at! Later guys, enjoy your rides!

    1) AWD gives very little aid to a automatic wrx. Between the inability to launch in boost and the turbo lag AWD does very little when racing an auto wrx. (My g/f has one, I should know). A well driven SS vs a Well driven auto wrx is likely to be close to 60mph and I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if the SS beat it. My moms FWD maxima 3.5L will take my g/f's auto wrx by a car upto 60mph and the SS is faster than the maxima, lol.

    2) You have been consistantly quoting a crappy 15.3 e.t. for the SS when numerous people here have told you that the SS easily goes high 14's and tons of people on the forums have gone mid 14's completely stock.
    The wrx is an automatic leaving very little room for error, so that means that 14.8 you are quoting is a pretty standard time... Whereas that 15.3 for the SS is not so standard for the car. (auto's have more consistancy in their times).

    3) You can "not care" anymore... That is fine and dandy with me.. Just bring a better suited argument to the table next time
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  5. #49
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    off topic slightly - but I love people trying to pull on me with the Cobalt SS and the Saturn variant also.

    let them get close - blip the throttle and take off - they're not even a challenge.

    Also - why the big deal about the Redline Stick being faster than the WRX Auto. You couldn't pick two more differint versions of the cars to compare. I'll tell you this much, if you live in an area with snow, you'll see a difference when the road is cold and slicked over.

    I wish a 3rd party vendor would create a replacement dash panel for the redline - that center mounted pod is unforgivable. Or relocate the wheel, pedals, seat and drive it from the center - that would be more impressive. Only problem being - it's a saturn, not exactly a huge aftermarket out there. Cars need to sell well for vendors to start giving them attention. The WRX has already proven itself year after year with both enthusiasts and vendors, the Saturn is still in the proving stages, that's not to say it isn't doing well - but I'd say it's up there with the Scion TC equipped with the TRD supercharger.
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  6. #50
    Registered User SixDaysToSunday's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cjx17 View Post
    unless the WRX was a stock automatic.. They dont run as fast as their manual counterparts... believe me, i have one lol but it is still fun ass hell to drive

    Even then though, the stock autos aren't much off of their manual counterparts. Sounds like a horrible driver to me.

    (For the record I prefer Manual over Auto, just to prevent some flaming here..)

  7. #51
    Registered User DTR rex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Micah View Post

    Also - why the big deal about the Redline Stick being faster than the WRX Auto. You couldn't pick two more differint versions of the cars to compare. I'll tell you this much, if you live in an area with snow, you'll see a difference when the road is cold and slicked over.
    I am aware. The only reason this is issue is because Arizonawrx wanted to compare to two because he owns a auto wrx and was stating it is just as fast as an SS, responds better to mods, and will beat it 0-60. All of which are incorrect.
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  8. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by DTR rex View Post
    1) AWD gives very little aid to a automatic wrx. Between the inability to launch in boost and the turbo lag AWD does very little when racing an auto wrx. (My g/f has one, I should know). A well driven SS vs a Well driven auto wrx is likely to be close to 60mph and I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if the ss beat it. My moms FWD maxima 3.5L will take my g/f's auto wrx by a car upto 60mph and the SS is faster than the maxima, lol.

    2) You have been consistantly quoting a crappy 15.3 e.t. for the SS when numerous people here have told you that the SS easily goes high 14's and tons of people on the forums have gone mid 14's completely stock.
    The wrx is an automatic leaving very little room for error, so that means that 14.8 you are quoting is a pretty standard time... Whereas that 15.3 for the SS is not so standard for the car. (auto's have more consistancy in their times).

    3) You can "not care" anymore... That is fine and dandy with me.. Just bring a better suited argument to the table next time

    I didn't buy my WRX to have a race car and run stright lines, and you can disagee with me, but please don't misrepresent what I said.

    1) When it comes to launching from a dig, stick or auto, having a AWD can help give a better 0-60 time over a car with similar power (or slightly more) that is only FWD. Obviously after that could be a different story, but you can't deny that having that early traction helps in terms of 0-60. That is what keeps the WRX (at least the auto) in contention vs. several more powerful cars.

    2) People have been getting better times, but check the link. I didn't make up 15.3, that is what car and driver constantly clocked the Ion Redline at. Your point is somewhat true, autos give more consistent times, so if the auto for the WRX is 14.8, and Car and driver is driving the Ion Redline manual over several track tests at 15.3, therefore, it is on the manual driver to be a good driver and get a better launch and shifts to beat it. No doubt the manual Ion Redline can be faster and probably could win, but if he is constantly clocking 15.3s, he still could beat the auto WRX, he would just need to get near perfect launchs and shifts to do it and cut his time down a full half second to do it. Otherwise, the auto WRX might still have a slight advantage, or make it a virtual draw.

    3) I don't care, I only reposted because I was being mis represented. If I wanted a car to race and heavily mod out, sure I would have bought the manual WRX. But I am more than happy with the auto WRX. I got a smokin' deal on it towards the end of 06, and it being auto allows my family to use it too. I didn't buy it to race, I bought it to have a nice, dependable, safe (and safe in all conditions,) fun, great handling quick car. So I am just going to sit back and enjoy it. Whether or not anyone understands that or not is ok, I am just going to enjoy my WRX, manual or auto, and be happy to own one.
    Last edited by ArizonaWRX; 11-03-2006 at 03:28 AM.

  9. #53
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    I highly doubt the auto wrx will beat the readline from a roll or dig. The 5sp wrxs have difficuilty with them especially from a roll.

  10. #54
    Registered User DTR rex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArizonaWRX View Post
    I didn't buy my WRX to have a race car and run stright lines, and you can disagee with me, but please don't misrepresent what I said.

    1) When it comes to launching from a dig, stick or auto, having a AWD can help give a better 0-60 time over a car with similar power (or slightly more) that is only FWD. Obviously after that could be a different story, but you can't deny that having that early traction helps in terms of 0-60. That is what keeps the WRX (at least the auto) in contention vs. several more powerful cars.

    2) People have been getting better times, but check the link. I didn't make up 15.3, that is what car and driver constantly clocked the Ion Redline at. Your point is somewhat true, autos give more consistent times, so if the auto for the WRX is 14.8, and Car and driver is driving the Ion Redline manual over several track tests at 15.3, therefore, it is on the manual driver to be a good driver and get a better launch and shifts to beat it. No doubt the manual Ion Redline can be faster and probably could win, but if he is constantly clocking 15.3s, he still could beat the auto WRX, he would just need to get near perfect launchs and shifts to do it and cut his time down a full half second to do it. Otherwise, the auto WRX might still have a slight advantage, or make it a virtual draw.

    3) I don't care, I only reposted because I was being mis represented. If I wanted a car to race and heavily mod out, sure I would have bought the manual WRX. But I am more than happy with the auto WRX. I got a smokin' deal on it towards the end of 06, and it being auto allows my family to use it too. I didn't buy it to race, I bought it to have a nice, dependable, safe (and safe in all conditions,) fun, great handling quick car. So I am just going to sit back and enjoy it. Whether or not anyone understands that or not is ok, I am just going to enjoy my WRX, manual or auto, and be happy to own one.

    1) Do know why the wrx has a such a great 1/4mile time and 0-60 time in its manual version? It is because it can LAUNCH IN BOOST. The auto cannot do that (at least not without a stall converter). The auto wrx does not really see benefits from awd on a dry surface. There is just not enough power there at 1.5k rpms for it to matter... I mean sure, you might reduce wheel spin a "bit" compared to another automatic fwd car, but nothing that is going to determine a race man.
    I think you have the common wrx-misconception on the capabilities of awd.
    If your auto wrx was FWD, your 0-60 times and 1/4mile times in your auto wrx would not be much different than they are now. In fact, you might even be faster because you would be making less drivetrain loss and trap higher. The awd is really only beneficial in racing terms to the manual wrx (if the auto is stock or near stock)... This has been gone over MANY times before you were around on this site man.

    2) What I am telling you is that car and driver getting a 15.3 from the SS is an incredibly high time. Perhaps the car was having troubles which resulted in lower time (it happens). I remember when motortrend tested an STi and couldn't get better than 13.8 out of 4 runs. Yet every other mag was getting very low 13's... It could have been the car.
    Also, check car and drivers previous test on the SS, where they managed at 14.7 out of the car. And as I already said, a plethora of forum guys are getting mid 14's stock as well.
    It is just not likely that a stock auto wrx is going to beat a cobalt SS. The SS makes more whp, and traps higher... both of which we know for sure. And as for 0-60 and 1/4mile it is all bench racing at this point, but you the ratio of times seen are in the favor of the SS.
    AWD does not help an auto wrx much, so forget about that argument that you keep using. A SS has a lot of torque and power and will get off the line pretty quickly.

    3) I am not dogging you for getting an auto wrx. If that is what suits you then more power to you man.... As I said, my g/f drives an auto rex and loves the thing and I think it is a spectacular car. And I understand you did not buy it to race, but you are arguing circumstances here that are not accurate and I am just telling you what is more accurate. There is nothing wrong with your car, I am sure it is great. But you have a misconception on what AWD does for an auto wrx on dry pavement and a misconception on what the SS is actually capable of in the hands of even a decent driver.
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  11. #55
    Registered User ArizonaWRX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DTR rex View Post
    1) 3) I am not dogging you for getting an auto wrx. If that is what suits you then more power to you man.... As I said, my g/f drives an auto rex and loves the thing and I think it is a spectacular car. And I understand you did not buy it to race, but you are arguing circumstances here that are not accurate and I am just telling you what is more accurate. There is nothing wrong with your car, I am sure it is great. But you have a misconception on what AWD does for an auto wrx on dry pavement and a misconception on what the SS is actually capable of in the hands of even a decent driver.
    Thanks man, I love my WRX. You are right, in the hands of a really good driver, the manual Ion redline might make it a strong tie or inch out a win. With Car and Driver's track times of 15.3 for the Redline, it might be possible to lower that, even by half a second, which would bring it to 14.8, which is what the auto WRX constantly pushes. Even with that half a second improvement, I believe you mentioned hearing a 14.7, it is a .1 second race in the 1/4, that could go either way depending on drivers, circumstance, or conditions.

    Not to doubt 14.7, I am sure a really good driver it could achieve close to that, but I would still have to go with something a little closer to car and driver's time, at least as a more general number for the car. (for the sole reason being the national reputation they have, they don't have amateur's track testing the cars, and that they run several times.) Does that leave open error? Absolutely, but a half second error? Motor trend had a 15.3 for the Ion redline as well. If someone really wanted to prove this close of a race one way or another, I guess thay could simply settle it on the track, not on a forum.

    But even with those perfect launchs and shifts, you pointed out hearing 14.7 somewhere, and the WRX autos are putting out around a constant 14.8. Just from a pure numbers stand point, unless the driver of the Ion had a pefect launch and perfect shifts, to the point of shaving an additional half second (from 15.3 to 14.8), the slight (not walk, not destinctive,) edge would go to the auto WRX more often than not. Could a more capable driver in a redline possibly produce a tie or edge out a win by a fender? Sure, it could happen, but across the board, the WRX has a slight horsepower bump and a slight (.5 second in 1/4) advantage in its favor. That close of a race could goto either car. In what could be decided by .1 of a second, my money would simply be on the car that runs 14.8 all day long constantly (auto or manual) vs. a car that can or could shave a half second off what it is running. That is all I am trying to say.

    Thanks for understanding my positon, and hearing where I am coming from on the matter. I didn't base buying my WRX for track racing, I bought a great car like the WRX for its package of safety, good handling, dependability, and performance. The Ion Redline is a great little car for Saturn too, kudos to them for making it. Win or lose, a race between the two sure would prove to be interesting, and a good little race for sure.

    Thanks Rex for understanding!

    P.S.- Is it really cold up there in Chicago right now? More than racing, that is where the AWD must really help a lot.
    Last edited by ArizonaWRX; 11-04-2006 at 02:38 AM.

  12. #56
    Registered User ArizonaWRX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DTR rex View Post
    1) Also, check car and drivers previous test on the SS, where they managed at 14.7 out of the car.
    All the numbers I have been referring to, and all of the posted links to those numbers done by both Car and Driver and Motor Trend getting the 15.3 quarter-mile times, are in reference specifically to the Ion Redline, not the Cobalt SS. Maybe that is where some of the earlier confusion came from.

    Either way, faster or slower, win or lose on a quarter mile straight line race, I honestly wouldn't care. I still love my WRX and would choose it over both of those other two fine cars, probably for the same reasons you choose your WRX DTR REX, (and your girl did too,) and why many other people on here did the same. They are great cars, and I am happy to own my WRX, as I am sure you are too.
    Last edited by ArizonaWRX; 11-04-2006 at 03:03 AM.

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    Wow, you guys have written War and Peace about magazine racing a WRX vs. an Ion Redline.
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  14. #58
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    You guys should go back and read my post in this thread. I owned a Redline. I've only been to a track once in my life, and got three runs in. I was super nervous and still managed a 14.8. So stock vs stock, 1/4 mile, the manual ('06) WRX should win, auto will be close. From a roll, the RL will pull on either an manual or auto WRX. I owned the car, and now own a WRX. Though I can't speak for my 1/4 miles times with the WRX (never been, doubt I'll ever be) I think i'd be a little more knowlegable then magazine racing on the RL side. And once modding comes into play, a modded WRX should still win 1/4 mile wise, but the RL will be trapping a TON higher. If you want to see for yourself go to www.redlineforums.com and look at some of the modded 1/4 miles times and trap speeds. Decide from real data instead of reading from a magazine.
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  15. #59
    Registered User ArizonaWRX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by soupsredline View Post
    You guys should go back and read my post in this thread. I owned a Redline. I've only been to a track once in my life, and got three runs in. I was super nervous and still managed a 14.8. So stock vs stock, 1/4 mile, the manual ('06) WRX should win, auto will be close. From a roll, the RL will pull on either an manual or auto WRX. I owned the car, and now own a WRX. Though I can't speak for my 1/4 miles times with the WRX (never been, doubt I'll ever be) I think i'd be a little more knowlegable then magazine racing on the RL side. And once modding comes into play, a modded WRX should still win 1/4 mile wise, but the RL will be trapping a TON higher. If you want to see for yourself go to www.redlineforums.com and look at some of the modded 1/4 miles times and trap speeds. Decide from real data instead of reading from a magazine.
    That is exactly what I am saying, I agree with that 100%. If someone cared enough to know, go race someone with the Saturn, and find out yourself. If not, oh well. I am just excited and more than pleased to own a WRX.

    The war and peace analogy was pretty funny.

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    well ppl.

    i can pwn a cobalt ss.(100% stock v stock) aren't we glad? i went to some streeeeet races tonight. that was fun.. didn't race there, but watch your ass if you see a little green civic with 5 ppl codriving it in the chicagoland area. its not slow. I took a redline down on the highway, and i was really suprised about that, because it should've killed me with its FWDedness. but you never know, he could've been half throttle or something, we stopped about 110. why don't you guys just find somebody with a cobalt or a redline and race them yourselves to find out? and if you don't like the streets, go to the track w/it
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