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This is a discussion on Mazda Speed 3.... within the Comparison: WRX vs World forums, part of the Community - Meet other Enthusiasts category; Originally Posted by ArizonaWRX And yes, this thread is silly. I still say we should all call it a day ...

  1. #121
    Registered User Griswold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArizonaWRX View Post
    And yes, this thread is silly.

    I still say we should all call it a day and go get ice cream.
    Deal! Except make mine a beer. I need it after this week.

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  3. #122
    Registered User ArizonaWRX's Avatar
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    Arrow

    Quote Originally Posted by Griswold View Post
    Deal! Except make mine a beer. I need it after this week.
    ok, come down to Phoenix and I'll buy you a drink. What happened this week? Rough couple of days?

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    mm toyota

    toyota bought gm's shares in subaru, but toyota's the smartest car company on the planet, so i'm pretty happy about that, and i don't think gm owned very much of it to begin with, i've read as low as 8.4% of Fuji, which was probably enough to help out with some debt issue for awhile.

    the new mazdaspeed 3 is gonna be a serious contender, they're gonna be moddable, available, and possibly as popular as srt-4s, i really can't wait to see what happens, and ford owns sooo many brands now, c'mon guys, mazda can build a car, if there's any one company that i'd actually buy from, that ford has control over, its mazda.

    just for no reason, i saw an orange mazdaspeed protege today, a very attractive little car.

    and somehow i think that mazda didn't design that top mount intercooler without thinking about how effective it was going to be beforehand... it could have issues, but its not like 0 companies are gonna produce a front mount for that car... you can't go ahead and assume your immediate thoughts are more effective than that of engineers who get paid to think about things like that.
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  5. #124
    Moderator YBNormal07's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by function/form View Post
    toyota bought gm's shares in subaru, but toyota's the smartest car company on the planet, so i'm pretty happy about that, and i don't think gm owned very much of it to begin with, i've read as low as 8.4% of Fuji, which was probably enough to help out with some debt issue for awhile.

    the new mazdaspeed 3 is gonna be a serious contender, they're gonna be moddable, available, and possibly as popular as srt-4s, i really can't wait to see what happens, and ford owns sooo many brands now, c'mon guys, mazda can build a car, if there's any one company that i'd actually buy from, that ford has control over, its mazda.

    just for no reason, i saw an orange mazdaspeed protege today, a very attractive little car.

    and somehow i think that mazda didn't design that top mount intercooler without thinking about how effective it was going to be beforehand... it could have issues, but its not like 0 companies are gonna produce a front mount for that car... you can't go ahead and assume your immediate thoughts are more effective than that of engineers who get paid to think about things like that.
    Unfortunately many good designs go out the window when the bean counters get involved. Regardless of the obvious benefits of a FMIC over a TMIC, when you get down to it, it is more expensive. That is why we also have them...guaranteed (besides the "historical" value")
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  6. #125
    Registered User Novtec1's Avatar
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    I think its gonna be a damn good car. when the aftermarket hits for it, its gonna be a serious piece of equipment. can't wait to see how it turns out.
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  7. #126
    Moderator YBNormal07's Avatar
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    Hopefully the internals are a bit more robust than the MS Protege. They didn't seem to like much more than factory boost.
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  8. #127
    Registered User Griswold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YBNormal07 View Post
    Hopefully the internals are a bit more robust than the MS Protege. They didn't seem to like much more than factory boost.
    The MSP was all about supporting mods. If you just turn it up, you're asking for trouble.

    Intake, exhaust, intercooler and you can probably handle a *reasonably* reliable 9psi instead of 7psi.

    Still on the risky side, though.

  9. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by Griswold View Post
    The MSP was all about supporting mods. If you just turn it up, you're asking for trouble.

    Intake, exhaust, intercooler and you can probably handle a *reasonably* reliable 9psi instead of 7psi.

    Still on the risky side, though.
    That is kind of what I said yes? Didn't mention the supporting mods as it has been my experience that even a bit more boost with mods on the MSP was asking for it to go boom. The engine management and piston design/heat removal just weren't beneficial to higher than 7psi boost levels.
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  10. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by YBNormal07 View Post
    That is kind of what I said yes? Didn't mention the supporting mods as it has been my experience that even a bit more boost with mods on the MSP was asking for it to go boom. The engine management and piston design/heat removal just weren't beneficial to higher than 7psi boost levels.
    Basically, yes. My point was just that it *can* be done with a little forsight and care...but you're 100% right. It's a calculated risk.

  11. #130
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    Before I traded in my msp for a wrx, I was running 10psi with fmic, exhaust, and intake. I'd say that was pretty risky without a tune. I'm definitely more of a power person so although the msp had the looks, the power and capability of the engine was just not there. They basically slapped on a turbo at 6 psi with a non-forged engine. The thing handled superbly, but it just wasn't a engine that had power capability. Either, Mazda continues to make these mistakes, or they actually hit with this car. ONly time can tell.
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  12. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by YBNormal07 View Post
    Unfortunately many good designs go out the window when the bean counters get involved. Regardless of the obvious benefits of a FMIC over a TMIC, when you get down to it, it is more expensive. That is why we also have them...guaranteed (besides the "historical" value")
    yeah, that's true, cost is everything.. but at least our motors are lower and we have functional hood scoops.
    as far as i've seen tho, its running 15.6 psi, in the same motor as a mazdaspeed 6, slightly detuned, (2.3l), its not running 6psi, which obviously is going to require a hell of a lot less cooling to remain efficient, whereas when you run 15.6psi through anything,it has to cool off a bit. another thing to keep in mind, is that when you want a car to run about 16 psi in a daily driver, for 100k miles, as all manufacturers prefer it to do, its gonna need better internals than the protege, and its gonna just plain have to be built better. mazda's also using the same engine in 2 other cars, and probably producing it for more than one year, making it a hell of alot more important to maintain reliability, and they'll have a harder time blowing up. they should be pretty tunable.
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  13. #132
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    Does anyone have any information on the engine build for the speed series? All I could find to date are an aluminum I-4 block, 4 valves/cylinder, a "small" turbo, TMIC, and forged crank and conn rods. Specifically, I am wondering what the pistons are as these will likely be the limiting factor in the boostability of the speed motor.
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  14. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by YBNormal07 View Post
    Does anyone have any information on the engine build for the speed series? .
    http://www.mazda3forums.com/index.php?topic=61171.0

    i'll do you 4,324 better.

    apparently, the powertrain is very durable, but the ECU and DI fuel system restrict mod potential.
    Last edited by AngelBoy; 11-07-2006 at 08:29 AM.
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  15. #134
    Moderator YBNormal07's Avatar
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    Wow...bravo to Mazda for actually having a tech answering questions in an online forum. Are you listening SOA??????????

    To bad they did not discuss the actual engine and tranny internals though. Although it's great to see that they actually try to break things during development testing (or should I say "admit" to trying to break things), it's been my experience that what one person consders thrashing, another considers it daily driving.

    One thing I will say...thank god SOA keeps intrusive "corrective" systems out of our platforms. That would be the first thing I would over ride or rip out if it came on a car I owned. With the exception of ABS, I can't think of a single "driver support" automated system I would want on a car. Especially something that decreases the throttle when I have my foot planted.

    It sounds like they will have their work cut out for them to go past a basic intake/exhaust upgrade path. With the high pressure fuel delivery system in use and with it close or at maximum delivery in stock form, the aftermarket will have to adapt to allow an upgrade for more fuel delivery to support aftermarket turbos and injectors.

    It's all good though. I especially like the reference to the STi ecu, although ours is not an "adaptive" ecu to allow multiple timing limits to be stored. That is what the AP and UTEC do for us. It will be interesting to see what Cobb comes up for them.
    tEh PriUs=teH faSTah!@@!
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    SOLD: 04 MPS/SW WRX Sti. 12.971 @ 103.97 (stock)
    278 AWHP/283 AWT, Catback exhaust
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    Cobb has their work cut out for them. not only is fuel pressure stratospheric, compared to non-DSI engines, but the injectors are also maxed out, and the compression ratio is 9.8:1. Ouch!
    embattled, we prevail...only victory exhaled.

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