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This is a discussion on Mazda Speed 3.... within the Comparison: WRX vs World forums, part of the Community - Meet other Enthusiasts category; i was thinking about this thread on my way home and i have to stick with my guns. i'm sorry, ...

  1. #106
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    i was thinking about this thread on my way home and i have to stick with my guns.

    i'm sorry, but when you have a bulls eye on your back for 5 years, it's only a matter of time. 5 years is an eternity in the car industry. IMO, the AWD just isn't enough to justify a performance advantage.

    the WRX is a much better all around package. a 40 year old woman will love it just as much as a 25 year old man, and that's a tremendous accomplishment. the AWD is just a plus, and it's awesome.

    the MPS 3 is more focused on performance. only young males will like this car.
    embattled, we prevail...only victory exhaled.

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  3. #107
    Registered User enash99's Avatar
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    Both are very good cars. But we will have to wait and see after the msp3 has been out for a year and more people have incounters with them or even have them. They are still too new of a car to get solid data from . too much speculation. I really really want to see how it performs on a circut style track. If it is all its cracked up to be then it would be a great alternative to the WRX for those that are not stuck on the AWD. In FL we dont get snow just rain. So its not as important for alot of people here. I cant wait to see one with the suspension mods, power mods and then see it on a track. Not a drag strip. Im not concerened with a drag race as much as I am with the braking and handling on a track.
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  4. #108
    Registered User ArizonaWRX's Avatar
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    Noob 2, I wish you the best with your search. It really does suck that you are getting rid of your STI. You are doing the more mature and responsible thing by selling it if you can't make the payments, but ANY ofther car in terms of grins, handling and fun will probably disapoint, yet the WRX and speed 3 will still be more than quality substitutes tha won't let you down, as much.

    I read some issues on another site about the heatsoak issue on the speed 3, but I am not going to go looking for it, as since I have an 06 WRX< I really don't care. But if you look at the pictures of the Engine bay of the Mazda spped 3, a sweet ride in itself, the intercooler is not a front mount for air, nor does it have a hood scoop like the WRX/sti to help in cooling. It is mounted directly above the engine block AND the headers. Without at least a vent like on a carbon fiber hood or the little vent on the EVO, all of that heat goes straight up, and into your intercooler. AT least the intercooler on the WRX is located in the back of the engine bay, behind the engine not above anything and with the dedicated scoop.

    IF you look up ford. com, it listed as Mazda as one of their sub companies on their front page, AND if you again google "ford owns Mazda" on google you will see it again. On the third link, listed here:
    http://money.cnn.com/2006/02/06/Auto...icar/index.htm

    It talks about how Mazda's engineers have been pulled to design Ford subcompacts, and that the eningeers have been pulled away from Mazda to work on Ford. If nine major parties owned 78% of you company, and one owned the largest percentage, in this case that party owning 33%, they control the company as they have a majority stake. They also have the ability to dictate the direction and day to day activtives if they choose to. It is not like an election where you need 51%. Why else would Mazda 'lend out' their engineers, and resources to a company who lost 5.8 billion in the last quarter alone, especially someone who is a competitor in the market? The cost cutting and pulling of resouces in order to ave money has begun.

    Both are great cars, but even the motor trend article says the Mazda has a toque limiter in first and second gear, and you are right, a vehicle with 33 more horses and 45 lbs. or torque should be possibly winning, if not at least even, with numbers of the WRX, but the WRX is faster in 0-20, 0-45, 0-60, and the quarter mile. MAzda said they did this to help limit bump steer, and in the Motor Trend article, stated that full power without torque limiter can be achieved after 60 miles per hour. To bad to, because it would be great to unleash that power in the earlier gears, where speeds bewtween 0-60 is 90% of where most drivers operate. Until then the WRX is still a half second faster 0-60. It is a sweet car, and yes time will tell.

    But to be honest, having the intercooler over the block and headers, maybe not the best. I wish there was more documentation on this, but perhaps that is another reason that despite the speed 3 having 33 more horses and 40 lb.s more torque, it still is behind in 0-60 and quarter mile times. Those times are not the determining factor of a car, but either of these cars is great. For my money, the performance, handling, and depnedability, I choose and bought my 06 WRX. Good luck checking out the GTI, or whatever you get.

  5. #109
    Registered User LRPct's Avatar
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    sure . maybe Ford doesn't OWN Mazda.. but again though.. they DO own Mazda, in that Ford's fate determines Mazda's fate...
    and as a pro driver myself I can say I' ve never known ANY pro driver to prefer any kind of FWD over any AWD or RWD...even those that have to race FWD touring cars... simply put no matter what, a FWD will ALWAYS outrageously power-on understeer,and the more "power" the worse it'll be, sure you can rotate it on entry, but you can do that with a tricycle too and power-on understeer is just plain boring and lame...

    with that.. I do LIKE the MS3.. I just wouldn't own another FWD no matter how well "balanced" she is MOST the time.. UNLESS I can afford to own 10+ drivable cars...

    my advice would be find a cheaper REX.. or a used 540i

  6. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by LRPct View Post
    sure . maybe Ford doesn't OWN Mazda.. but again though.. they DO own Mazda, in that Ford's fate determines Mazda's fate...
    and as a pro driver myself I can say I' ve never known ANY pro driver to prefer any kind of FWD over any AWD or RWD...even those that have to race FWD touring cars... simply put no matter what, a FWD will ALWAYS outrageously power-on understeer,and the more "power" the worse it'll be, sure you can rotate it on entry, but you can do that with a tricycle too and power-on understeer is just plain boring and lame...

    with that.. I do LIKE the MS3.. I just wouldn't own another FWD no matter how well "balanced" she is MOST the time.. UNLESS I can afford to own 10+ drivable cars...

    my advice would be find a cheaper REX.. or a used 540i
    I agree. Having AWD on my WRX offers great full time dry traction and handling out here for the Desert and on the freeways, and if I go up north I have AWD available for snow. That plus having a car that has prvoen to be very dependable over time is a plus. It doesn't hurt either to have a car that is still faster than 90% of what is out there as well, in this case, including the speed 3 (in 1/4 mile and in 0-60. Many will say 'that's only 0-60', but be honest, unless you are buying a car to be a track diva, you still will need and utilize it for everyday driving. And for everyday driving, for me, about 85-90% of my driving is 0-60, and for trips and freeways, I know it still has power above that if I need it. ) My Sister and her husband have an 04, and nothing has gone wrong with it. They absolutely love it. So having a performance minded dependable car that is built and engineered well AND is AWD, I will (and did) take that.

  7. #111
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    First, thanks for keeping this civil. I'm glad we haven't reduced ourselves to name-calling and purple nurples. I think we can see each other's points but must respectfully disagree. I was not aware about Ford taking Mazda engineers away to work on their own cars, but that should be a testiment to the Mazda engineers (and their cars) and not necessarily a bad thing at present time. Future Mazda's may suffer, but the 3 has been out a while. Anyways, both cars are awesome cars and awesome daily drivers. Last couple weeks I've been racking my brain reading everything I can about all kinds of cars. I'm driving myself crazy, really. Fun, cheap, preferably gas-friendly sporty car that is fun to drive and practical...maybe I'm looking for too much. Anyways, cars I'm looking at:

    1) Mazda 3
    2) Mazdaspeed 3
    3) WRX Wagon
    4) MKV GTI (yet to test drive)
    5) Every other car I can think of

    Man so many great cars out right now, how's a dude to choose? Oh yeah, test drive! My favorite part! What am I doing here on the internet? I should be out driving!
    2006 STI OBP - SOLD
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  8. #112
    Registered User 02radioflyer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by n00bulat0l2 View Post
    1) Mazda 3
    2) Mazdaspeed 3
    3) WRX Wagon
    4) MKV GTI (yet to test drive)
    5) Every other car I can think of

    Man so many great cars out right now, how's a dude to choose? Oh yeah, test drive! My favorite part! What am I doing here on the internet? I should be out driving!
    Cant lose with that list. I'm obviously biased toward the WRX wagons becouse they can be prepared to excell in any role you can think of. (wheather sport or utility and all in bettween)

    I had the Mazda 3 as my second option as well. I made the right choice without a doubt in terms of ability. Thou I wont hasitate to find a used one as a second car. I really like the 3 hatch a whole lot.
    02redwagone on Nasioc

  9. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by n00bulat0l2 View Post
    First, thanks for keeping this civil. I'm glad we haven't reduced ourselves to name-calling and purple nurples. I think we can see each other's points but must respectfully disagree. I was not aware about Ford taking Mazda engineers away to work on their own cars, but that should be a testiment to the Mazda engineers (and their cars) and not necessarily a bad thing at present time. Future Mazda's may suffer, but the 3 has been out a while. Anyways, both cars are awesome cars and awesome daily drivers. Last couple weeks I've been racking my brain reading everything I can about all kinds of cars. I'm driving myself crazy, really. Fun, cheap, preferably gas-friendly sporty car that is fun to drive and practical...maybe I'm looking for too much. Anyways, cars I'm looking at:

    1) Mazda 3
    2) Mazdaspeed 3
    3) WRX Wagon
    4) MKV GTI (yet to test drive)
    5) Every other car I can think of

    Man so many great cars out right now, how's a dude to choose? Oh yeah, test drive! My favorite part! What am I doing here on the internet? I should be out driving!
    Agreed, I am glad we can discuss and talk on here and be civil, and come to see each other's points. So what do you have next in terms of test drive? Obviously, along with all of the facts presented, we are still obviously WRX and STI fans, so we like them, but what is next for your test drive? Keep us posted, and best of luck!

  10. #114
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    for the love of Christ!

    http://www.msprotege.com/forum/showthread.php?t=56563

    - Each company was the lead for their main strength. So Ford of Europe was the lead for driving dynamics (the current-gen euro-Focus is nothing short of awesome), Volvo the structurals and safety, and Mazda for the powertrains and exhaust systems (Japanese-reliability and technology).
    embattled, we prevail...only victory exhaled.

  11. #115
    Registered User n00bulat0l2's Avatar
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    Wow awesome! Thanks for the info. Mazda 3 = made in Japan and 58% all Mazda.
    2006 STI OBP - SOLD
    2007 True Red Mazda 3 Hatchback
    Bye bye performance
    Hello MONEY! How I missed you!

  12. #116
    Registered User sti>evo's Avatar
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    I'm not worried.
    "You were flyin back there when I passed you!"


    NEW ENGLANDF4

  13. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by n00bulat0l2 View Post
    Wow awesome! Thanks for the info. Mazda 3 = made in Japan and 58% all Mazda.
    here's the biggie.....

    - Recognizing the need to develop a strong 4-cylinder engine family to compete against the ones from Honda and others, Ford assigned Mazda to develop the engine family. Ford gave Mazda the basic block, some intellectual property (e.g. Cosworth casting process), some money, and told Mazda to come back with a state-of-the-art engine family with a streamlined manufacturing process that can be manufactured at plants around the world. These engines would be shared by Ford, Mazda, and whoever else in the Ford family with the need for it.

    in the end, i don't care who made what and who owns who, because the '3' has proven itself to be dead reliable.
    embattled, we prevail...only victory exhaled.

  14. #118
    Registered User ArizonaWRX's Avatar
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    Talking Silly rabbit...

    Quote Originally Posted by AngelBoy View Post
    here's the biggie.....

    in the end, i don't care who made what and who owns who, because the '3' has proven itself to be dead reliable.
    "Dead" reliable? like 'Found On Road Dead' reliable? I wouldn't even bother with it. It might be reliable, but the WRX has proven itself to be dependable stock, and modded. It is simply IMO, a proven, performance minded, and all conditions car with its AWD. Plus the unlike the speed 3, the WRX has no torque limiter in 1st or 2nd gear because it doesn't have the wheel hop of the speed 3. The speed 3 says its limiter won't allow full torque until after 60 mph. PLUS placin your intercooler directly on top of the block AND headers? With no venting/scoop, or front mount? = HEAT SOAK. Oh yeah, plus for those who are a fan of speed, the WRX is still a half second faster in 0-60, and is still faster in the 1/4 mile. The AWD also offers great traction in dry/ freeway driving, offroad, and snow, plus no wheel hop as with the FWD.

    I would care who owns my car, as Ford will be cutting corners left and right soon. But apparently the inefficency is beginning. A car with 35 more horses and 40 more lbs. of torque is still behind the WRX in 0-60 and 1/4 mile times? Can you say FWD wheel hoping torque limiter till 60 and heatsoak?

    For me, the the speed 3 might be a nice car, but vs. what the WRX offers? No contest. WRX all the way. A quick FWD hatch with torque limiter till 60mph and heat soak vs. a dependable, AWD performance rally inspired car? WRX FTW! This thread is getting silly.

  15. #119
    Registered User Griswold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArizonaWRX View Post
    "Dead" reliable? like 'Found On Road Dead' reliable? I wouldn't even bother with it. It might be reliable, but the WRX has proven itself to be dependable stock, and modded. It is simply IMO, a proven, performance minded, and all conditions car with its AWD. Plus the unlike the speed 3, the WRX has no torque limiter in 1st or 2nd gear because it doesn't have the wheel hop of the speed 3. The speed 3 says its limiter won't allow full torque until after 60 mph. PLUS placin your intercooler directly on top of the block AND headers? With no venting/scoop, or front mount? = HEAT SOAK. Oh yeah, plus for those who are a fan of speed, the WRX is still a half second faster in 0-60, and is still faster in the 1/4 mile. The AWD also offers great traction in dry/ freeway driving, offroad, and snow, plus no wheel hop as with the FWD.

    I would care who owns my car, as Ford will be cutting corners left and right soon. But apparently the inefficency is beginning. A car with 35 more horses and 40 more lbs. of torque is still behind the WRX in 0-60 and 1/4 mile times? Can you say FWD wheel hoping torque limiter till 60 and heatsoak?

    For me, the the speed 3 might be a nice car, but vs. what the WRX offers? No contest. WRX all the way. A quick FWD hatch with torque limiter till 60mph and heat soak vs. a dependable, AWD performance rally inspired car? WRX FTW! This thread is getting silly.
    No offense, but you're starting to sound like a broken record. Ford owning a controlling share of Mazda does not automatically mean cutting corners on Mazda's part.

    Subaru's controlling interest was owned by GM when the WRX was introduced in the US. By that logic, Subaru must have been cutting corners, etc. since GM isn't that different from Ford.

    Ford Board of Directors might have oversight of Mazda, but they're not going so far as to say "You should only use 3 cross members instead of 4 on that chassis, etc" They control Mazda at a much higher level than that.

    And yes, we know that the WRX is faster in the 1/4 and to 60.

    People like different things and that doesn't mean they're bad.

    Glad you're thrilled with your WRX. It's a great car. You're right, this thread has gotten rediculous!

  16. #120
    Registered User ArizonaWRX's Avatar
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    GM no longer has shares of Subaru, (Subau is fully owned by Fuji, and controls their own destiny) and they NEVER had a contolling interest like Ford. Unless Ford has a fire sale, Mazda will NEVER be able to buy back that 31% of stock.

    People do like different things, and that is good, people are compairing these two cars because they are both 4cyl. turbo charged, but after that they are totally different cars built for different reasons and different people.

    I am glad you are thrilled with your Mazda, it is a nice car, and I am thrilled with my WRX, Honestly, I couldn't be happier with it, I am thrilled every time I get to drive it.

    And yes, this thread is silly.

    I still say we should all call it a day and go get ice cream.
    Last edited by ArizonaWRX; 10-27-2006 at 02:39 PM.

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