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This is a discussion on Mazda Speed 3.... within the Comparison: WRX vs World forums, part of the Community - Meet other Enthusiasts category; Originally Posted by AngelBoy stock for stock, the Mazda 3 handles better. sorry. if you think it plows, you're wrong. ...

  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by AngelBoy
    stock for stock, the Mazda 3 handles better. sorry. if you think it plows, you're wrong. it's delightfully neutral, i've adjusted its ass end with the throttle many times, just as easily as the WRX. you don't have to believe me if you don't want to, but my speedometer doesn't lie, and my cousin + fiancee will back me up 100%. in the Mazda, i can take turns going faster, period.


    i think it's pretty sad that you have to spend more money on mods to get your $25K rally inspired sports sedan to handle better than a $16K economy car. keep spending if you want to outbrake the same economy car.
    I don't know what to tell ya man, but I can't agree with you. Maybe you're more comfortable with your Mazda than you were with you WRX or perhaps you have a different driving style but...FWD is FWD. If you charge hard into a corner at the limit and cut it in the WRX, you'll break traction momentarily and slide slightly before the AWD allows you to tuck the front back in and fire out of the corner. With a FWD, yes even your beloved Mazda, if you're cornering at the limit and stomp on it with power going to the front wheels they will lose traction and slide to the outside of the corner, aka. plowing understeer. Aside from throttle and brake modulation, I don't know of a way to avoid this with high hp FWD cars. In this instance you'd have to slow your exit by getting on the throttle later than AWD, which can't possibly be faster. In similarly well handling (that may not make sense, haha) vehicles, AWD is going to be faster in more situations than FWD, that's all I'm saying. Especially at the limit and in less than ideal weather.

    Either way n00bulat0l2, I think that you're going to be happy with whichever car you pick (though not as happy as with an STi because...damn). It all depends on which aspects are most important to you.

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  3. #47
    Registered User ArizonaWRX's Avatar
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    Exclamation

    Quote Originally Posted by AngelBoy
    I've been driving a Mazda 3 for the last 28,000 miles of my life, having come out of a Stage 2 WRX with 17x7.5 SSR Comp's and Stoptech's BBK.

    before i elaborate, you forgot to mention that the Mazda 3 also outbrakes a WRX, and has a much better gearbox. it's actually fun to use.

    stock for stock, the Mazda 3 handles better. sorry. if you think it plows, you're wrong. it's delightfully neutral, i've adjusted its ass end with the throttle many times, just as easily as the WRX. you don't have to believe me if you don't want to, but my speedometer doesn't lie, and my cousin + fiancee will back me up 100%. in the Mazda, i can take turns going faster, period.




    i think it's pretty sad that you have to spend more money on mods to get your $25K rally inspired sports sedan to handle better than a $16K economy car. keep spending if you want to outbrake the same economy car.

    the MPS 3 simply improves on what is already a very fun car to drive, and adds a ton of power and torque. as a track toy, the MPS 3 is a much better car out of the box.

    the WRX is severely outdated at this point. i can't wait until 2008....
    A car can sometimes brake well (along with good brakes) because it doesn't have much power or force to stop. To say because one 'econobox' as you put it, the regular Mazda 3, can out brake the WRX is neither here nor there for some people, the 3 doesn't have the force to stop of the speed 3, Civic SI, WRX or any other higher hp/turbo car.

    Again, as someone recently mentioned, the WRX is by far the best mix of features for the price on the market. A mix of speed, handling, features, AWD, proven performance, response from mods, and dependability.

    Heck, the Mazda RX-8, a nice car, and proclimed combatant of the 350Z, offers an available 232 hp manual version as well as the entry 212 hp edition. The 232hp manual goes 0-60 in 7.0 seconds from all both the initial review and long term review from edmunds.com. 0-60 in 7.0 is still a good time, but both the Mazdaspeed 3, civic SI, and the WRX can easily WALK the RX-8 0-60 time, and the MSRP of the lowest base version of the RX-8 starts at over $31,000 When you could get a WRX for thousands less, even the TR edition starting at under 24,000.

    Again, I think the WRX is the best mix of several factors for most car buyers. Its proven performance, dependability, unique AWD system is a triple tandem for enthusiasts. The SRT 4 is faster in a straight line, and like the Mazdaspeed 3, are both nice capable performers. Cars have different purposes and appeal to people for different reasons/features. But the WRX's triple threat of performance dependability, and AWD, plus new features like bigger brake kit, functional hood scoop, overall design found on the new 06 are what attracted me to it. Now that I have owned one, I would still choose it again.
    Last edited by ArizonaWRX; 10-18-2006 at 10:47 PM.

  4. #48
    Registered User ScstealthVR6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AngelBoy
    hehe you almost answered your own question. since its introduction in 2002, the SRT-4 will easily beat it in the 1/4, and the Civic Si, Mini Cooper S, and MPS 3 will easily auto-x better than the WRX, with the MPS 3 winning in almost every other performance category.

    it's still the best all around car, that's for sure, and it still has a lot of personality, but it's not such a performance bargain anymore. IMO, if you buy a WRX, it means you really like what it's about. if it's performance you're looking for, there's better options elsewhere.
    i thought the mag that tested the cars said if the wrx had tires similar to the ms3 that it would win the autox? i think test comparos should be like the huge hp test motortrend (i think?) did last year. they had lingenfelter vettes, hennessey vipers, etc and all on the same tire so u can look more at which car performs better, not the tires.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ArizonaWRX
    Again, as someone recently mentioned, the WRX is by far the best mix of features for the price on the market. A mix of speed, handling, features, AWD, proven performance, response from mods, and dependability.
    yes, i said this and i agree 200%. it's just not a performance bargain compared to the competition.

    Quote Originally Posted by PegGrinder33
    With a FWD, yes even your beloved Mazda, if you're cornering at the limit and stomp on it with power going to the front wheels they will lose traction and slide to the outside of the corner, aka. plowing understeer
    my car doesn't have enough power to break traction on dry surfaces, whether i'm charging a hard corner or not. with high hp FWD cars, your "plowing understeer" statement holds true. however i can easily swing the ass end around in the 3 by stomping on it. and because the 3 came with a more aggressive wheel/tire package, i can also brake much later, because i have more grip than the WRX. i can also brake later because the 3 brakes better! i've driven a lot of miles in both cars. oh well. it sounds like you know what you're talking about, so we'll just agree to disagree.

    Quote Originally Posted by ScstealthVR6
    i thought the mag that tested the cars said if the wrx had tires similar to the ms3 that it would win the autox? i think test comparos should be like the huge hp test motortrend (i think?) did last year. they had lingenfelter vettes, hennessey vipers, etc and all on the same tire so u can look more at which car performs better, not the tires.
    how many owners swap the RE-92's as soon as they buy the car? if you're allowed to switch tires in the WRX, shouldn't they be allowed to switch tires in the MSP 3? once you enter the modification world, there are just too many variables to compare the cars.

    we live in the real world, where your budget is probably the biggest factor in purchasing a vehicle. the fact that Subaru keeps putting a horribly ratio'd 5-speed and RE-92's on a much more expensive car shows the real intentions of the WRX. it is a jack of all trades, master of none car at this point. young people buy it, but so do old people. males buy it, as well as females. in order to cater to everyone, Subaru is compromising performance.

    case in point: Mazda is only making about 6000 MSP 3's a year. Subaru sells about 30,000 WRX's a year. which car do you think is compromising performance to cater to a wider audience?
    Last edited by AngelBoy; 10-19-2006 at 01:05 AM.
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  6. #50
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    Exclamation Wow, let's be logical...

    Quote Originally Posted by AngelBoy
    yes, i said this and i agree 200%. it's just not a performance bargain compared to the competition.



    how many owners swap the RE-92's as soon as they buy the car? if you're allowed to switch tires in the WRX, shouldn't they be allowed to switch tires in the MSP 3? once you enter the modification world, there are just too many variables to compare the cars.

    it is a jack of all trades, master of none car at this point. young people buy it, but so do old people. males buy it, as well as females. in order to cater to everyone, Subaru is compromising performance.

    case in point: Mazda is only making about 6000 MSP 3's a year. Subaru sells about 30,000 WRX's a year. which car do you think is compromising performance to cater to a wider audience?
    I see what you are saying, but you logic doesn't hold up. You ask if you are allowed to switch the tires what is the point? The point is that if you ran the auto cross on tha same tires, or at leat both on summer tires, (The WRX comes with all season) then you will have a the ability to see which car performs better, not just tires. In science they call this the controled variable, so you can tell the results for what they are, not impacted by other influences, in this case, tires. In the auto cross test done in this month's Motor Trend, the WRX lost a one mile aucto cross run by less than a second. All three professional drivers said that A) with summer tires, the WRX would win, and B)reguardless of what the numbers and tests said, all three said they would prefer the stripped down TR "Tuner Ready' WRX over the better equiped Mazdaspeed 3. Why do you think that is? Some things are more than numbers, but numbers don't lie: to say the WRX is a bust on performance when it still has a better 0-60 (which is most speeds everyday drivers use) than the speed 3? Or the fact that all three experts would still take the WRX?

    Second, the numbers thing is neither here nor there. You said because Subaru sells 30,000 cars a year, they water it down and 'cater it' to so many people and that is why it sells. Are you kidding me? Maybe it is because it is a great car and is popular! Subaru has no year end clearance or huge rebates to sell the WRX, because they don't need them. Now, you can say, well, Mazda speed 3 aren't just lying on lots either, they don't have sales either. Well, imagine this: You are a sub company (Mazda) of a larger parent company (Ford). You decide to enter into the suddenly crowded market share of turboed 4 cyl performance cars. A market that while saturated, has seen capable cars be discontinued for reasons from breakdown (SRT 4)to just not selling. If you produce 30,000 and they bomb/ or are luke warm received, then you are stuck with thousands of unsold units at the end of the year to take a hit on. Or, produce a low number, say 6,000, so if they have some buzz since there isn't many of them, and if they aren't greated so well, you don't take a huge hit at the end of the year. That way you can revamp it, scrap it, or make more they next year depending on sales and buzz.

    Thirdly, the factory 'limiter' on first and second gear of the Mazdaspeed 3? Are you kidding? Not to mention reports of owners complaining about above normal heat soak on the speed 3s.

    Bottom line: The speed 3 is a nice FWD hatch. The WRX is an proven performer in the street, rally, and awards. The current WRX has proven itself, so you can love your car, it is nice, but don't hate the WRX like it is worthless. While it is nice to be good at some things, that can make you an all-star, it is when you are an all around performer that makes you a hall of famer. In time, the Mazdaspeed 3 is and could be an even better car. But don't dump on the WRX, a car that is still faster 0-60 than your mazda, a car that with just equal, not better, equal tires, is better in autocross, and is still the experts pick.

    We should both enjoy our cars for the great things they can each do. Remember the first car you drove? I bet it was nothing like these two performers. Again not to hate, but there are some car forums (cough) who still brag about beating stock civics and modded cavaliers (no joke ). Congrats, we both have great cars, that while they both have strengths, they are great rides aren't they? I enjoy that my 06 WRX is by far the best car I have ever driven. Now, let's ride!!!
    Last edited by ArizonaWRX; 10-19-2006 at 02:19 AM.

  7. #51
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    Almost got a Mazda 3 but the wagon had no compromises bettween usefullness and performance. I'm looking for a secondary vehicle now and the 3 is right at the top of the list.
    Every owner Ive talked to loved it to death.

    I guess that for me I admire both for what they are, (great vehicles near the top of their classes) as a wagon owner It might be alot easier for me to see it that way.
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    You are in Alaska! That's cool! I am from down here in Phoenix. DO you get a lot of snow there?

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    LOL Not as much as you would think. I reside in the south central area so it has snowed a couple feet overnight every few winters but its nothing I'd see as unique to Alaska. (like Valdez gets) Anchorage is not that harsh an environment in terms of Alaska's other places.
    We live on the water here so whenever we get southern wind we call it the coconut express becouse it basically is very warm wind from Hawaii. A couple -20 days a winter is the worst of it. Pretty much that to rain in February. Random. Winter solstice is about 6-7 hours of daylight here.

    That and climate change has really taken the teeth out of cold winters lately.
    Tho Fairbanks(400 miles north) still goes from 90 above in summer to 90 below (not as often) in winter. (they test cars there)
    02redwagone on Nasioc

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    Quote Originally Posted by ArizonaWRX
    The current WRX has proven itself, so you can love your car, it is nice, but don't hate the WRX like it is worthless.............But don't dump on the WRX
    i love the WRX very much! otherwise i wouldn't be here every day. i barely post on the Mazda forums, and i love my Mazda as well....

    Quote Originally Posted by ArizonaWRX

    Now, let's ride!!!
    good idea!
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  11. #55
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    Let me just ask...because I'm curious...those of you who are repeatedly saying things like "plowing understeer" have you driven a 3 or are you simply basing your opinion on it being a FWD car? Because I thought it would have crazy understeer and screetching tires and lean like crazy but it did none of those things. I turned the wheel, the car happily turned in and went. I went on a clover-leaf section (all 4 leaves) and found it to take them at speeds I would have never though possible, nevermind without screetching or sliding or understeering into a rail. Now the MSP3 will handle even better than that so I don't think those of you who are bashing it's turning are basing it on experience but merely on your FWD bias. Now again, MAYBE at track speeds (i.e. unsafe, crazy speeds) there could be a difference, but at the already fast speeds I was turning it at the car just didn't have any of the characteristics you all are talking about.

    I am not some sort of Mazda fan by any means, only car I would ever have owned before all this was an RX7. Anything else was underpowered IMO. RX8 is a beautiful looking car and handles beautifully from what I've read but it doen't have the oomph for me. I know Mazda has had some great handling cars (miata, RX8) but I never would have though that the 3 would stick so well. All of you saying WRX is faster 0-60...meh. If I spent my time launching my car 0-60 it wouldn't last very long. I'm curious as to which car would be faster 5-60 so the AWD advantage is taken out of the calculations.

    Also, I don't want to buy a car to mod it. I am a fan of stock cars (or near stock) because I don't want to waste more money when something goes wrong and my warranty doesn't cover it. I also am a mechanical n00b with cars so I'd have to pay to install things because I wouldn't want to do a half-ass job myself from lack of experience. Anyways, I don't want to buy a car to mod it (intake/exhaust would be the most probably) so that's not really a factor. Besides, who's to say how well the cars will respond to mods before they're even available in most of the country? I also don't want to have to change my tires as soon as I get the car to get it to perform better.

    Both are great cars, no doubt. I have yet to test drive a regular WRX (or mazdaspeed 3 for that matter) so it's all really speculation at this point. But as far as the "experts" opinions they are just that, opinions. You can't base a decision like this based on opinions from 3 guys working for the same magazine. Before I do anything I'll test drive both cars (may have to wait a couple months for the MS3) that way I'll have a much better idea. Right now I've pretty much narrowed it down between the 06 WRX wagon and a MS3. I'm looking for that perfectly fun, high-performance, grocery-getting family car. Maybe I'm looking for too much? Oh well.

    PS Alaska? Wow...can't imagine how much fun a WRX would be in some real snow!
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  12. #56
    Registered User elohdaeh78's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by n00bulat0l2
    Let me just ask...because I'm curious...those of you who are repeatedly saying things like "plowing understeer" have you driven a 3 or are you simply basing your opinion on it being a FWD car? Because I thought it would have crazy understeer and screetching tires and lean like crazy but it did none of those things. I turned the wheel, the car happily turned in and went. I went on a clover-leaf section (all 4 leaves) and found it to take them at speeds I would have never though possible, nevermind without screetching or sliding or understeering into a rail. Now the MSP3 will handle even better than that so I don't think those of you who are bashing it's turning are basing it on experience but merely on your FWD bias. Now again, MAYBE at track speeds (i.e. unsafe, crazy speeds) there could be a difference, but at the already fast speeds I was turning it at the car just didn't have any of the characteristics you all are talking about.

    I am not some sort of Mazda fan by any means, only car I would ever have owned before all this was an RX7. Anything else was underpowered IMO. RX8 is a beautiful looking car and handles beautifully from what I've read but it doen't have the oomph for me. I know Mazda has had some great handling cars (miata, RX8) but I never would have though that the 3 would stick so well. All of you saying WRX is faster 0-60...meh. If I spent my time launching my car 0-60 it wouldn't last very long. I'm curious as to which car would be faster 5-60 so the AWD advantage is taken out of the calculations.

    Also, I don't want to buy a car to mod it. I am a fan of stock cars (or near stock) because I don't want to waste more money when something goes wrong and my warranty doesn't cover it. I also am a mechanical n00b with cars so I'd have to pay to install things because I wouldn't want to do a half-ass job myself from lack of experience. Anyways, I don't want to buy a car to mod it (intake/exhaust would be the most probably) so that's not really a factor. Besides, who's to say how well the cars will respond to mods before they're even available in most of the country? I also don't want to have to change my tires as soon as I get the car to get it to perform better.

    Both are great cars, no doubt. I have yet to test drive a regular WRX (or mazdaspeed 3 for that matter) so it's all really speculation at this point. But as far as the "experts" opinions they are just that, opinions. You can't base a decision like this based on opinions from 3 guys working for the same magazine. Before I do anything I'll test drive both cars (may have to wait a couple months for the MS3) that way I'll have a much better idea. Right now I've pretty much narrowed it down between the 06 WRX wagon and a MS3. I'm looking for that perfectly fun, high-performance, grocery-getting family car. Maybe I'm looking for too much? Oh well.

    PS Alaska? Wow...can't imagine how much fun a WRX would be in some real snow!
    As for the 0-60 thing, well its a number that almost all tests use and that is why it is discussed here. So you say what is faster 5-60 to take away the awd advantage, then lets say what is faster from 5-60 in the rain to take away the MS3's hp advantage, and then you could say what is faster in the snow and what is what is what is. Each car has its advantages, most people don't drive over 60mph during their daily commute unless they are on the highway, i think from any legal speed limit even from a 10-65mph run, the cars would be very equally matched in speed. As for the tire comparison, well yes the MS3 does handle better becasue it has better tires, just like the wrx handles way better in the rain cause it has tires suited for that. If you are looking for pure performance the MS3 is more setup for that while the WRX is more setup for a more everyday car. You can set the WRX up to compete with the MS3 with better tires, better suspension and probably get it to handle just as good as the MS3 but can you setup the MS3 to handle as good as a wrx in not so perfect weather? Sure i am comparing cars and mods and with any amount of money any car can be made to be fast or handle well, but you have to take in account the MS3 is setup to handle well, the WRX is setup for daily driving, in the rain in the snow on dry pavement, if you tried to take the MS3 out in the snow with the tires it comes with how well would it do? How well would it do in the rain? Its not meant for that such as the tires on the WRX aren't meant for racing.
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    Registered User Griswold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by n00bulat0l2
    Let me just ask...because I'm curious...those of you who are repeatedly saying things like "plowing understeer" have you driven a 3 or are you simply basing your opinion on it being a FWD car? Because I thought it would have crazy understeer and screetching tires and lean like crazy but it did none of those things. I turned the wheel, the car happily turned in and went. I went on a clover-leaf section (all 4 leaves) and found it to take them at speeds I would have never though possible, nevermind without screetching or sliding or understeering into a rail. Now the MSP3 will handle even better than that so I don't think those of you who are bashing it's turning are basing it on experience but merely on your FWD bias. Now again, MAYBE at track speeds (i.e. unsafe, crazy speeds) there could be a difference, but at the already fast speeds I was turning it at the car just didn't have any of the characteristics you all are talking about.

    I am not some sort of Mazda fan by any means, only car I would ever have owned before all this was an RX7. Anything else was underpowered IMO. RX8 is a beautiful looking car and handles beautifully from what I've read but it doen't have the oomph for me. I know Mazda has had some great handling cars (miata, RX8) but I never would have though that the 3 would stick so well. All of you saying WRX is faster 0-60...meh. If I spent my time launching my car 0-60 it wouldn't last very long. I'm curious as to which car would be faster 5-60 so the AWD advantage is taken out of the calculations.

    Also, I don't want to buy a car to mod it. I am a fan of stock cars (or near stock) because I don't want to waste more money when something goes wrong and my warranty doesn't cover it. I also am a mechanical n00b with cars so I'd have to pay to install things because I wouldn't want to do a half-ass job myself from lack of experience. Anyways, I don't want to buy a car to mod it (intake/exhaust would be the most probably) so that's not really a factor. Besides, who's to say how well the cars will respond to mods before they're even available in most of the country? I also don't want to have to change my tires as soon as I get the car to get it to perform better.

    Both are great cars, no doubt. I have yet to test drive a regular WRX (or mazdaspeed 3 for that matter) so it's all really speculation at this point. But as far as the "experts" opinions they are just that, opinions. You can't base a decision like this based on opinions from 3 guys working for the same magazine. Before I do anything I'll test drive both cars (may have to wait a couple months for the MS3) that way I'll have a much better idea. Right now I've pretty much narrowed it down between the 06 WRX wagon and a MS3. I'm looking for that perfectly fun, high-performance, grocery-getting family car. Maybe I'm looking for too much? Oh well.

    PS Alaska? Wow...can't imagine how much fun a WRX would be in some real snow!
    The MS3 will have some plow AT THE LIMIT. You won't understeer off of the road in a perfomance driving situation unles you really F it up. And chances are that you'd put just about any car off of the road if you messed it up that bad.

    Lemme just say that I've had the rear end start to come around on me in my MSP going around a clover leaf at crazy speeds. For FWD cars, they have about the least amount of understeer tendancy on the market though, obviously, they're still not immune to it at the absolute limit. (MSP that is, as I've never driven the MS3)

    My point is that you're going to drive both of these cars and one of them is going to speak to you and resonate with you at a different level than the other. That'll be the one that you buy. Don't worry about FWD vs. AWD (unless you're in Alaska, etc., though I've got FWD in Boston and am fine. And then a there's always snow tires)

    Give them both a fair shake and buy the one that suits you. They're both fine and capable cars and I don't think you'll go too far wrong with either one.

    Good luck.

  14. #58
    Moderator YBNormal07's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by elohdaeh78
    As for the 0-60 thing, well its a number that almost all tests use and that is why it is discussed here. So you say what is faster 5-60 to take away the awd advantage, then lets say what is faster from 5-60 in the rain to take away the MS3's hp advantage, and then you could say what is faster in the snow and what is what is what is. Each car has its advantages, most people don't drive over 60mph during their daily commute unless they are on the highway, i think from any legal speed limit even from a 10-65mph run, the cars would be very equally matched in speed. As for the tire comparison, well yes the MS3 does handle better becasue it has better tires, just like the wrx handles way better in the rain cause it has tires suited for that. If you are looking for pure performance the MS3 is more setup for that while the WRX is more setup for a more everyday car. You can set the WRX up to compete with the MS3 with better tires, better suspension and probably get it to handle just as good as the MS3 but can you setup the MS3 to handle as good as a wrx in not so perfect weather? Sure i am comparing cars and mods and with any amount of money any car can be made to be fast or handle well, but you have to take in account the MS3 is setup to handle well, the WRX is setup for daily driving, in the rain in the snow on dry pavement, if you tried to take the MS3 out in the snow with the tires it comes with how well would it do? How well would it do in the rain? Its not meant for that such as the tires on the WRX aren't meant for racing.
    I think I get the gist of what you are saying here, but I will break my thoughts on this down in a much simpler manner:

    Stock:
    0-60 WRX FTW
    5-XXX MS3 FTW
    Cornering MS3 FTW
    Non-dry conditions: WRX FTW

    Modified
    0-60 WRX FTW
    5-XX Either (MS3 = lower weight, WRX better potential for mod HP)
    Cornering Either
    Non-dry condition: WRX FTW.

    I believe your assessment did not take into account that no matter how much you modified the cars, all mods being equal, the WRX AWD holds a tremendous advantage in adverse weather condtions. The tires a certainly a factor, but the AWD vs FWD is much more of a factor.
    Just my thoughts.
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    306 AWHP/341 AWT, Stage 2
    (Scott) Moderator-STi, Drag Racing, Car Purchasing, and Tutorial Forums

  15. #59
    Registered User elohdaeh78's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Long Valley, NJ
    Posts
    706
    Quote Originally Posted by YBNormal07
    I think I get the gist of what you are saying here, but I will break my thoughts on this down in a much simpler manner:

    Stock:
    0-60 WRX FTW
    5-XXX MS3 FTW
    Cornering MS3 FTW
    Non-dry conditions: WRX FTW

    Modified
    0-60 WRX FTW
    5-XX Either (MS3 = lower weight, WRX better potential for mod HP)
    Cornering Either
    Non-dry condition: WRX FTW.

    I believe your assessment did not take into account that no matter how much you modified the cars, all mods being equal, the WRX AWD holds a tremendous advantage in adverse weather condtions. The tires a certainly a factor, but the AWD vs FWD is much more of a factor.
    Just my thoughts.
    That is kind of what i was getting at. I was basically saying that with a minimal amount of mods you can make a wrx handle just as good as a MS3 in dry pavement but could you ever make a MS3 handle as good as a WRX in wet or snowy conditions? The MS3 is not as capable as the WRX in a variety of conditions, with $3000 into the WRX you can get a nice set of tires, an exhaust and a reflash and some nice springs/struts and sways. You are going to have a car that can handle better then a MS3 in the dry/wet/snow and be faster from a roll, from a dig from any moving speed. Now if you add $3000 to the MS3 can you say the same? Will the MS3 handle better in the snow or rain, will the MS3 cut low13s@100+mph, those are all questions we will eventually find out.
    2005 WRX (Short throw shifter, lightweight pulley,STI Splitters,Tein H-Tech springs,Up/Down Pipe, ERZ Catback, Cobb Stage 2, ASA JH8 with Yokohama ES 100s) 13.680@100.46mph

  16. #60
    Registered User enash99's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Palm Harbor, FL
    Posts
    1,375
    Quote Originally Posted by elohdaeh78
    That is kind of what i was getting at. I was basically saying that with a minimal amount of mods you can make a wrx handle just as good as a MS3 in dry pavement but could you ever make a MS3 handle as good as a WRX in wet or snowy conditions? The MS3 is not as capable as the WRX in a variety of conditions, with $3000 into the WRX you can get a nice set of tires, an exhaust and a reflash and some nice springs/struts and sways. You are going to have a car that can handle better then a MS3 in the dry/wet/snow and be faster from a roll, from a dig from any moving speed. Now if you add $3000 to the MS3 can you say the same? Will the MS3 handle better in the snow or rain, will the MS3 cut low13s@100+mph, those are all questions we will eventually find out.

    Youhave to give the edge to the MS3 on the dry pavement with equal amount of $ spent on mods. Well I would really like to see, it would be close. but soon as it rains or snows. hahah FWD vs AWD from my experience driving many versions of both drivetrains the AWD owns.. the 96 eclipse AWD drivetrain was just amazing in the slippery conditions.
    2003 Platinum Silver Metalic Sedan
    VF-34 Powered
    My Mods
    Quote Originally Posted by Yossarian
    Even if your car was stock, your chances of warranty coverage are about as good as a retarded chimp trying to do a calculus problem while high on pcp.

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