'03 WRX vs. '06 Honda Si - Page 2
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This is a discussion on '03 WRX vs. '06 Honda Si within the Comparison: WRX vs World forums, part of the Community - Meet other Enthusiasts category; How do get that skidpad numbers don't tell crap about a cars handling? Skidpad numbers are lateral g's that are ...

  1. #16
    Registered User StupidMan's Avatar
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    How do get that skidpad numbers don't tell crap about a cars handling?

    Skidpad numbers are lateral g's that are created by turning the car. The higher the number, the better the overall grip/handling of a car. Its like the teletremy data that race car drivers go over after a race. Things that factor in here are chassis rigidity, tires & suspension

    Slalom shows speed, and directly represents chassis agility and the ability for a car to change directions while at speed without loosing control. Factors here are drivetrain layout/car width/suspension/power.

    Two different tests, two different forms of grip. Both equally necessary.
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  3. #17
    Registered User 4WDwRx's Avatar
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    The viper pulls like 1 g, but it doesnt handle like a Porsche
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  4. #18
    Registered User StupidMan's Avatar
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    All I am saying is that a well balanced, well handling car will put down good numbers in both the slalom and skidpad. Lots of porsche's put down near 1g handling without the aid of 14" wide tires.
    And lets not forget the comp viper dominated domestics and loads of exotics on road courses for nearly a decade before the cobra r's took the lime light, and now the vette.
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  5. #19
    Registered User DTR rex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digitalfiend
    I'm really liking the new Si but skid pad numbers don't tell you crap about the handling. I'd be much more interested in slalom numbers and lap times than 200-300ft skidpad numbers. Going by one magazines skidpad numbers you could draw the conclusion that the Si handles better than a STi or Evo, and we all know that's not even close to true. The Si is definitely a great handling FWD car though; it's about time Honda put an LSD upfront.
    1) I don't think so... While the skidpad g's are a good reference to a cars grip, it undoubtably will still measure a certain angle of handling performance.

    2) The 3 different magazines have run an average slalom speed of 68mph for the 06' si. The wrx is considerably lower with speeds in the 64/65mph range. In fact, the 68mph slalom speed the civic posts in actually quite on par with an STi which I found to be posting speeds in the 68/69mph area.

    So again, not only does the civic blow the wrx out of the water on both skid pad AND slalom speeds, but in both instances it is on par or very near with numbers that an STi would achieve.

    What does this all mean? The new Si is one hell of a handling machine, and regardless of what some may think, it is not all in the tires. Give the wrx a set of summers and it still will not boast those times (as tested by Prodrive America)... Who found that on stock tires their lowest slalom with a wrx was a mere 62mph.

    Also, just for sh!ts and giggles, the new VW GTi is posting similar numbers to the civic si. It is only slightly below the skidpad numbers, but slaloms just the same which also makes it considerably higher than the wrx and also on par with an STi in the slalom.
    Last edited by DTR rex; 06-19-2006 at 12:48 PM.
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  6. #20
    GraysonSubaru's Avatar
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    I still hope I run into one on the dragon... bunch of us going this sunday so maybe I will get lucky and run up on one.
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  7. #21
    Registered User StupidMan's Avatar
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    Price withstanding, it is an unfair comparison since the SI is to civic what the STi is to wrx. The SI is newer, lighter with a tighter suspension from the factory, and most (maybe all) come with summer tires. That all adds up to a quick, well handling machine.

    The wrx still has a very supple suspension from the factory, and could stand from increased stiffness in shocks and springs, as well as the summer tires. Even with the suspension evened up, the civic si will have the weight advantage, as well as the advantage of a far more advanced chassis. Not to mention its ability to be upgraded too.
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  8. #22
    Registered User 4WDwRx's Avatar
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    Aww man... I need to get an SI. the wrx suck even with its awd.
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  9. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by DTR rex
    1) I don't think so... While the skidpad g's are a good reference to a cars grip, it undoubtably will still measure a certain angle of handling performance.

    2) The 3 different magazines have run an average slalom speed of 68mph for the 06' si. The wrx is considerably lower with speeds in the 64/65mph range. In fact, the 68mph slalom speed the civic posts in actually quite on par with an STi which I found to be posting speeds in the 68/69mph area.

    So again, not only does the civic blow the wrx out of the water on both skid pad AND slalom speeds, but in both instances it is on par or very near with numbers that an STi would achieve.

    What does this all mean? The new Si is one hell of a handling machine, and regardless of what some may think, it is not all in the tires. Give the wrx a set of summers and it still will not boast those times (as tested by Prodrive America)... Who found that on stock tires their lowest slalom with a wrx was a mere 62mph.

    Also, just for sh!ts and giggles, the new VW GTi is posting similar numbers to the civic si. It is only slightly below the skidpad numbers, but slaloms just the same which also makes it considerably higher than the wrx and also on par with an STi in the slalom.
    The main thing the slalom does IMHO that is not completely dependent on the tires is that the the suspension and the chassis of those cars that get high speed numbers doesn't get upset by quick transitions.

    The WRX has pretty long suspension travel which makes it less suitable for that. However, the suspension of the WRX will not get upset when the road is going up or down, something I am not sure the SI will do as well. Also, the AWD will always have the advantage of getting on the gas earlier after the apex of a turn than a RWD car or a FWD car which is also a benefit of the WRX. The limited slip of the SI lowers the certain advantage of that, but I don't think it will be enough.

    I really think it depends on what type of track is being raced on. In fact, the old RSX-S (which while different than the SI, it isn't all that far behind the SI on an autocross in the sheer handling department) went around Car and Driver's autocross than an 05 WRX.
    Last edited by Gloveperson; 06-19-2006 at 08:38 PM.
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  10. #24
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    yes yes and yes..... handling is excellent in the FF civic on asphault.....

    then tell that civic driver to pull off the road into the field or a loose dirt track and keep up with you.... or even better yet, wait until its raining outside and then race... I'm sure that 4wheels are greater than 2 wheels in that application.

    I drove a ser spec v that had excellent tarmac stickability and did really good in slaloms. Hell, with its 6 speed, my car could walk a stock rex from a roll and with my modifications I could almost run one on DRY pavement but thats where it ends. Acceleration into turns where the ground was not solid was tricky. Most of it is the driver though....

  11. #25
    Registered User DTR rex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by udelslayer
    yes yes and yes..... handling is excellent in the FF civic on asphault.....

    then tell that civic driver to pull off the road into the field or a loose dirt track and keep up with you.... or even better yet, wait until its raining outside and then race... I'm sure that 4wheels are greater than 2 wheels in that application.

    Oh boy.

    Do you have any idea how stupid you just made yourself seem?

    The "yeah, but lets see it go off on gravel or snow" argument is for the insecure 14 year old wannabe subaru drivers and gives the rest of us a bad name throughout the enthusiest community.
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  12. #26
    Registered User Griswold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DTR rex
    Oh boy.

    Do you have any idea how stupid you just made yourself seem?

    The "yeah, but lets see it go off on gravel or snow" argument is for the insecure 14 year old wannabe subaru drivers and gives the rest of us a bad name throughout the enthusiest community.
    DING!!

    Really now, how many people actually drive aggressively, much less in a racing situation, on gravel and snow??

    With the exception of the odd snowy parking lot or something.

    If you want to go into a bunch of gravel and tear it up, have fun and kiss your paint job goodbye!

  13. #27
    Boba Fett BrianH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Griswold
    DING!!

    Really now, how many people actually drive aggressively, much less in a racing situation, on gravel and snow??
    Understeer ftw!

  14. #28
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    can't we all just get along. there has to be a planet where honda and subaru driver's get along and enjoy the choice they made. Both have good points. I choose the subaru because I like the overall driving experience along with being an everyday driver and ability to take more people along or stuff certain items into the back seat fairly easily.

    some people wont even look at at WRX because they want a coupe

    I had a customer that bought a Tib. for that very reason - wouldnt even drive the WRX -- I later spanked him in my WRX after he and his friends wouldnt shut up about how they would kill my little 4 door car. He was in the GT V6, i was in my stage 2.

    just a matter of preference. i personally love the feel of the turbo spooling up and jetting you forward (or backwards depending on how you drive - ha), but some like the high revving buzzy engine that honda offers along with what is apparently a good suspension setup in the new SI.
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  15. #29
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    I get it, I get it. You dont have to gang up on me.
    /hangs head in shame

    I thought the car was designed to be able to drive on less firm surfaces. Didnt know people are this picky. Gawd! Hell no I wont race my Subaru.... GAWD! I've only owned one for 3 weeks.

  16. #30
    Registered User Griswold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by udelslayer
    I get it, I get it. You dont have to gang up on me.
    /hangs head in shame

    I thought the car was designed to be able to drive on less firm surfaces. Didnt know people are this picky. Gawd! Hell no I wont race my Subaru.... GAWD! I've only owned one for 3 weeks.
    I wasn't trying to come down too hard on you, sorry if it came across that way. I just thought it was a funny comment since 99.99% of any encounters are on the street or at least pavement. Probably 100% between the Si and the WRX

    Is the WRX a more well rounded car? Or at least capable of traversing more varying terrain? Sure.

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