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This is a discussion on WRX vs 350Z within the Comparison: WRX vs World forums, part of the Community - Meet other Enthusiasts category; Not to mention turbocharged 300hp engines and 300hp n/a engines are two different beasts. A turbo engine of the same ...

  1. #16
    Registered User StupidMan's Avatar
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    Not to mention turbocharged 300hp engines and 300hp n/a engines are two different beasts. A turbo engine of the same power will outperform its na opponent in almost every case given same weight/gearing ect. The harder you push against a turbo, the harder it pushes back. So I would dare to say, a 250whp turbo 2.5L wrx will outpull a 250whp na 3.5L 350z at any point on the highway. Especially since the 06's are more aerodynamic than previous wrx's, and still weigh less than most models of the z.
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  3. #17
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    once again, I gotta chime in here: first off, we can all agree that they're both roughly the same weight, and a Stage 2 06 is the same power. it boils down to power delivery and drivetrain configuration.

    power delivery: a 3.5L engine can breathe better than a 2.5L engine. since displacement is basically how much air can fit in the cylinder, it's hard to argue this point. for this reason, the 350Z has a significant advantage on the highway. at 80mph+, you better be able to breathe to keep pushing your car through all that air. also, ask all the muscle car guys how they got into the 12's for less than $500.

    in addition, bigger turbo or not, the WRX's still choke up top because of their weak gearing. the 06's have even a taller final drive than previous years.


    drivetrain configuration: this whole AWD > RWD makes no sense. if the power is the same, the power is the same. drivetrain losses only matter when comparing stock vs. stock.

    keep in mind I am arguing a Stage 2 '06 vs. 350Z from a highway roll.
    embattled, we prevail...only victory exhaled.

  4. #18
    Registered User DTR rex's Avatar
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    If you want to win from a dig: StageII (full exhaust and engine management) and decent driving.

    If you want to win from a roll: Larger turbo
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  5. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by DTR rex
    If you want to win from a dig: StageII (full exhaust and engine management) and decent driving.

    If you want to win from a roll: Larger turbo
    +1 thank you.
    embattled, we prevail...only victory exhaled.

  6. #20
    Registered User StupidMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DTR rex
    If you want to win from a dig: StageII (full exhaust and engine management) and decent driving.

    If you want to win from a roll: Larger turbo
    You don't think a protuned 250whp 2.5L wrx would pull a 250whp 350z on the highway? What do you think the wrx would have to have, like 300whp? That is obsurd. Come on guys use your noodles.
    It is all about volumetric efficiency, and turbo's increase the VE of the 2.5 to well beyond that of an N/A motor. A 3.5 operating at 90%VE<2.5 operating at 130%VE. Boost is the direct replacement for displacement. Bottom Line.
    We could argue this point all day, but we will see when you get them both on the highway.

    Peace.

    EDIT: Damn DTR, I will never get sick of that avatar.
    Last edited by StupidMan; 04-25-2006 at 10:21 AM.
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    boost makes up for a lack of displacement, it is not a direct replacement. there *is* no replacement

    at the 'strip, getting a good launch and a low 60' is the key to having a "fast" WRX. otherwise, you're eating the Camaro's dust.
    embattled, we prevail...only victory exhaled.

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    i raced a 350z two days ago. we did a 60mph roll on. i gained on him from the very start and ended up about 5 lengths ahead until slowing down at 105. I have an ECUTEK reflash only on my WRX and i had a very large 300lb friend in the car.

  9. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by yacker18
    i raced a 350z two days ago. we did a 60mph roll on. i gained on him from the very start and ended up about 5 lengths ahead until slowing down at 105. I have an ECUTEK reflash only on my WRX and i had a very large 300lb friend in the car, and the 350Z had an elephant in the hatch
    embattled, we prevail...only victory exhaled.

  10. #24
    Registered User StupidMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AngelBoy
    boost makes up for a lack of displacement, it is not a direct replacement. there *is* no replacement

    at the 'strip, getting a good launch and a low 60' is the key to having a "fast" WRX. otherwise, you're eating the Camaro's dust.
    Please google volumetric efficiency. The only reason turbo's lack the low end grunt is because we are still using ancient ways to spool them. Soon variable ar turbines (as on the new porches) will dominate, and then they will have a hybrid electric one that will be the best. So, boost is a direct replacment, for displacement. However, more displacement=more power potential since it too can be boosted beyond the 100% VE point.
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    Quote Originally Posted by StupidMan
    Please google volumetric efficiency. The only reason turbo's lack the low end grunt is because we are still using ancient ways to spool them. Soon variable ar turbines (as on the new porches) will dominate, and then they will have a hybrid electric one that will be the best. So, boost is a direct replacment, for displacement. However, more displacement=more power potential since it too can be boosted beyond the 100% VE point.
    i know what VE is, but you speak of absolute power and torque. i know you're familiar with Supra's, so i'll use those as an example. the single turbo upgrade is a popular one because you can make tons of power with one big snail. but looking at the dyno graphs reveals absolutely nothing below 4000rpm's. i would hardly call that "volumetrically efficient", even though on paper, your statement on VE makes cars equal. the 350Z has torque and the Stage 2 WRX does not, and that is where the 100cc advantage comes in on the highway.

    why do you think a 400hp Vette can still get 26mpg? torque! a 5.0L engine is barely breathing at 55mph, and is just starting to wake up at 80mph, and will murder any turbo-lagged car above 100mph
    embattled, we prevail...only victory exhaled.

  12. #26
    Registered User StupidMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AngelBoy
    i know what VE is, but you speak of absolute power and torque. i know you're familiar with Supra's, so i'll use those as an example. the single turbo upgrade is a popular one because you can make tons of power with one big snail. but looking at the dyno graphs reveals absolutely nothing below 4000rpm's. i would hardly call that "volumetrically efficient", even though on paper, your statement on VE makes cars equal. the 350Z has torque and the Stage 2 WRX does not, and that is where the 100cc advantage comes in on the highway.

    why do you think a 400hp Vette can still get 26mpg? torque! a 5.0L engine is barely breathing at 55mph, and is just starting to wake up at 80mph, and will murder any turbo-lagged car above 100mph
    The ability for an engine to breathe and make power is directly related to rpm's and VE, not to speed. Absolute torque and power are elusive numbers that could never be hammered down for any vehicle or setup, there are just too many variables. I am simply talking two vehicles with the same power/same weight/same outside variables the turbo would simply outperform the n/a. That is simply because a turbo has no finite limit on its VE, whereas an n/a engine theoretically could never achieve more than 100% VE (which has never been done)

    06 wrx stage 2 peaks over 340lbs/ft at the wheels at around 3k and tapers off as rpm's rise. The z doesn't make good torque until 3k and it is not even close to 340lbs at the wheels. And once rpm's rise, the horsepower takes over. The wrx has the lower rpm advantage because of the super quick spooling turbo (2.5L). Ever heard of turbo torque?

    Look, we could go back and forth a hundred times with a new, better, bigger point, but the bottom line is you will have to line the two cars up on the highway and go to truly find out. And from what Ive seen and heard, the z should be a pretty easy target with a strong stage 2 06 wrx. Pre 06, maybe a different story, probably not though.
    stupidman has spoken

  13. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by StupidMan

    Look, we could go back and forth a hundred times with a new, better, bigger point, but the bottom line is you will have to line the two cars up on the highway and go to truly find out. And from what Ive seen and heard, the z should be a pretty easy target with a strong stage 2 06 wrx. Pre 06, maybe a different story, probably not though.
    definitely. admittedly, i've never been in an '06, so we might be going off two different gauges.
    embattled, we prevail...only victory exhaled.

  14. #28
    Registered User dehnem's Avatar
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    the only replacement for displacement is technology

    Which is why we should use the AWD and Turbo to win from a dig and stop racing ppl on the highway so much. If you wan to beat this guy on the highway go buy a car that has less drivetrain loss and then just make more hp/weight then he is

  15. #29
    Registered User elohdaeh78's Avatar
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    I would put a small amount of money on it that a 02-05 Stage II WRX would run pretty damn even with a stock 350Z from a roll and beat it from a dig with equal drivers. I would also say a Stage II 06 WRX would beat a stock 350Z from both a roll and a dig.
    2005 WRX (Short throw shifter, lightweight pulley,STI Splitters,Tein H-Tech springs,Up/Down Pipe, ERZ Catback, Cobb Stage 2, ASA JH8 with Yokohama ES 100s) 13.680@100.46mph

  16. #30
    Registered User StupidMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AngelBoy
    definitely. admittedly, i've never been in an '06, so we might be going off two different gauges.
    Just as I have never been in an pre 06, and cannot speak from that aspect.

    I certainly am not saying our cars are the fastest on the street, just that in stage 2 form, an 06 wrx is quite a monster. And I truly believe it would beat a 350z dig or roll.

    As for the pre 06's I would imagine if the stg2 wrx kept rpms up and stayed in the power band, it would be a drivers race.
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