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This is a discussion on Follow the leader with a '00ish vette??? within the Comparison: WRX vs World forums, part of the Community - Meet other Enthusiasts category; Originally Posted by Newks FYI you are ...... a peni$ I guess when you have run out of points, resorting ...

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Newks
    FYI you are ...... a peni$
    I guess when you have run out of points, resorting to personal insults like you might hear on a gradeschool playground is the best remaining approach.

    Typically that is considered to mean you have lost the argument.

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  3. #32
    Registered User Kush's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikerdude
    #1 better to compare to STI.

    #2 Cobra doesn't even have IRS for pete sake. It might be hard to believe but there is more to a car than 1/4 mile and hazing up the tires - I admit the Cobra is good at that. Drive an STI and a Cobra around a corner sometime and you'll see what I mean. STI handles better and can get on the power sooner out of the corner due to AWD.
    So if they're designed for different purposes, why even compare them? I agree, you can make a mustang corner just about as well as you can make a FWD Honda run a 7 second quarter - they're just not designed for those purposes. But for what they are designed for, the Mustang and STi excell, just at different things. You want to run under the 10's on pump gas? Buy a mustang and mod it. You want to go road racing? Buy and STi and mod it. Start with the platform designed for the kind of driving you want to do, but don't say one is crap because it doesn't perform as well as the other in the same situations - it's like comparing apples to oranges.

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    Last edited by Kush; 05-15-2006 at 11:23 PM.
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  4. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kush
    So if they're designed for different purposes, why even compare them? I agree, you can make a mustang corner just about as well as you can make a FWD Honda run a 7 second quarter - they're just not designed for those purposes. But for what they are designed for, the Mustang and STi excell, just at different things. You want to run under the 10's on pump gas? Buy a mustang and mod it. You want to go road racing? Buy and STi and mod it. Start with the platform designed for the kind of driving you want to do, but don't say one is crap because it doesn't perform as well as the other in the same situations - it's like comparing apples to oranges.
    Ok, maybe we can find some kind of agreement here... let's have a go...

    I agree the Mustang is much less sophisticated than the STI but has more power (at least in the expensive trim levels).

    But, I think it's much cheaper and easier to add power to the STI, than it is to fix all the problems that come from the lack of a suspension in the mustang. And the STI isn't that bad on power to begin with...

  5. #34
    Registered User Kush's Avatar
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    Lack of suspension for the kind of driving you'd do with an STi, yes. Lack of suspension for drag racing, for which it was designed, not really. They both can be improved, the STi can always use more power, and the mustang's cornering can always be improved, but the mustang was never designed as a cornering car, it was never advertised that way - it's a straight line acceleration car and it serves that purpose well. So I guess my point is, it doesn't really make sense to compare suspensions between the cars, because they're purposely set up for different purposes.

    Even comparing the Corvette and the Mustang, the IRS of the corvette is incredible for cornering, while the Mustang still sucks. In other words, it's not crap because it's American necessarily, they're just designed for different applications. You wouldn't take a Nascar (sorry for the analogy) to a drag strip, and you wouldnt take a funny car to a road course - both american, both amazing at what they are designed for. The WRC cars are amazing for rally racing, but would suck at a drag strip. etc. etc. etc.

    I respect your opinion, but I think comparing the STi to something like a Porche or even a corvette would be more appropriate. Wheel spin? Yes, but cornering would be an interesting comparison.
    Last edited by Kush; 05-15-2006 at 11:37 PM.
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    Registered User MagikMan's Avatar
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    i thought this was about the corvette... however... a mustang cobra DOES have IRS. And they are dyno queens as i run the same times as one that's over100more rwhp than me.
    1999 Corvette; vararam cold air intake; ls6 intake manifold; cartek stage 2x heads; cartek stage 2x cam; ported ls6 oil pump; hardened pushrods; 1 7/8" headers with full 3" exhaust back; hardened output shaft; 3.90rear gears.... 420rwhp

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    uhh i hate to burst your bubble but Cobras are straight axle. And i can asure you mine is not a dyno queen.
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  8. #37
    Registered User Juice33's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikerdude
    #1 better to compare to STI.

    #2 Cobra doesn't even have IRS for pete sake. It might be hard to believe but there is more to a car than 1/4 mile and hazing up the tires - I admit the Cobra is good at that. Drive an STI and a Cobra around a corner sometime and you'll see what I mean. STI handles better and can get on the power sooner out of the corner due to AWD.

    The cobra has a big engine, I never denied this. It's just... a terribly unsophisticated car with a big engine. That's what the "big 3" are good at. Suspension straight out of the 1960's.

    I respect the engine. But not the rest of the car.

    I understand why people buy them. There's nothing wrong with it! Buy what makes you happy. But just be honest about what it is: a big displacement engine dropped into a victorian era buggy.
    OK the idiocy in here is getting high on all accounts. The SVT Cobra has had an IRS since the 99 model, so yes they have an IRS, not a live axel, look it up instead of just being hard-headed. I had an STi before I had my Cobra and guess which car I though was better? The Cobra. The Cobra handles pretty good, a lot better than you are willing to give it credit for, especially since you never drove one. The Cobra is also faster than the STi in a straight line all day, and if you really want to hand an STi or Vette its lunch on a road course the suspension has plenty of upgrades that will make the Cobra out handle just about everything (including Porsches, M3s and whatever else you want to throw at it) and it won't even cost too much to get their. Also, where is the STi so technilogically advanced? A turbo 4 is no technical miracle, and I would rather have a hand-built V8 with FI then the semi-closed deck turbo 4, and I did make that decision a little over a year ago after having my STi for a 14 months. Also, when turboed, the Cobra engine can hold a minimum of 750 rwhp (stock block and stock guts), hell I have seen one guy with 930 rwhp with the stock engine.


    As for Cobras being dyno queens, that is a Vette owner fallacy. Vettes are a lot lighter so they try and say that because the Cobra has a little more power yet still runs the same as a much lighter Vette, it must be a dyno queen, while they just ignore the weight difference when because thet it is most convenient. I think it is a secret jealosy for the cost difference it is to mod these two great american cars. But don't get me wrong Vettes are great cars too and can do eveything but drive in snow at a pretty good clip. Magik, just because a that one particular Cobra supposedly has 100 rwhp more, you know just as well as everyone else here (I hope), that in the end it comes down to the driver, not the horsepower, if there is a true 100 rwhp difference you know that car is actually faster. Or maybe the dude is running crappy tires and can't launch it right, or he has inflated numbers, which is very possible.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeffbmx00 View Post
    my friend has a 5.0 too, they are slow, the only way to decently make them fast is to drop a v8 explorer engine in them.

  9. #38
    Registered User MagikMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Newks
    uhh i hate to burst your bubble but Cobras are straight axle. And i can asure you mine is not a dyno queen.
    I'll put 100 dollars down the an '03 cobra comes with an IRS
    1999 Corvette; vararam cold air intake; ls6 intake manifold; cartek stage 2x heads; cartek stage 2x cam; ported ls6 oil pump; hardened pushrods; 1 7/8" headers with full 3" exhaust back; hardened output shaft; 3.90rear gears.... 420rwhp

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  10. #39
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    It's not just the power:weight that makes the difference of the cobra vs. vette... It's actually more the powerband of the ls1. When I race a '03 cobra with a ported supercharger, pulley, chip, and exhaust... When they are at peak, I can see them start to close the gap... but my power band is longer, and then I start to pull furter and further. I pretty much put a car through each gear, then they make up half a car... if that makes sense. Also, I run the same times as a f-body with my same power... well with in a tenth... and the fbody is only like 200lbs lighter than the cobra.... 100horsepower is a lot... and it's true... cobras are dyno queens... i'm not knocking them at all.
    1999 Corvette; vararam cold air intake; ls6 intake manifold; cartek stage 2x heads; cartek stage 2x cam; ported ls6 oil pump; hardened pushrods; 1 7/8" headers with full 3" exhaust back; hardened output shaft; 3.90rear gears.... 420rwhp

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  11. #40

    Peachypumpkincheeks

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    Quote Originally Posted by bikerdude
    It *costs* more new.

    The used market has decided it is *worth* less, and has valued it appropriately.

    Think about that: the STI holds its value better, by your own admission. For the same reason Toyotas hold their value better than Ladas, since you didn't seem to follow the point.
    WRONG. The Vette obviously does cost more new, it's a superior car.

    BUT I was making a point that you can get a vette for less than an STi because they've been around longer! It's not that they don't hold their value because they definitely do. The STi came here in '04, and therefore is still newer. But what about 10 years from now? It definitely will not still hold it's value. People will have moved onto bigger and better things. Every year since the vette has been made is pretty much a classic (obviously except for the c5 and c6 models). People still pay top dollar to buy up old vettes and spend hours restoring them. You're not going to see that with a 'disposable' Japanese car.

    And you think it's cheaper to mod an STi? The vette starts with such a better performance base, you don't even NEED to mod it to beat 92% of the cars on the road. Also, single mods do MORE for the vette than a single mod would do for the STi. For example, a c5stock vette (non z06) will run about a 13.5 in the 1/4mile. Slap on a Vararam air intake, which costs about $300 bucks, and you'll be running 12.9's. The STi really can only improve little by little, whereas little mods to the vette will make huge improvements.

    And ultimately, the old saying rings true: there is no replacement for displacement.
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  12. #41
    Registered User MagikMan's Avatar
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    This is true... it obviously depends on conditions... but I ran a 13.5 stock... just the vararam dropped me to a 12.9.... i went from a 8.7 in the 1/8 to a 8.3. Slapped the heads and cam on... I should be looking low - mid 11's.
    1999 Corvette; vararam cold air intake; ls6 intake manifold; cartek stage 2x heads; cartek stage 2x cam; ported ls6 oil pump; hardened pushrods; 1 7/8" headers with full 3" exhaust back; hardened output shaft; 3.90rear gears.... 420rwhp

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  13. #42

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    Dear bikerdude...

    Here's some REAL knowledge for ya:

    Car And Driver:
    "10 Best Cars of 2006" Corvette: Best performance car
    http://www.caranddriver.com/bestcars...mance-car.html

    And the Corvette was the Best Performance Car in 2005
    http://www.caranddriver.com/bestcars...mance-car.html

    Oh, and it was also the Best Performance Car in 2004, 2003...
    http://www.caranddriver.com/bestcars...-corvette.html
    http://www.caranddriver.com/bestcars...best-cars.html


    Road And Track Magazine:
    Corvette z06: Exotic car performance for a fraction of the cost.
    http://www.roadandtrack.com/article....rticle_id=2672

    Reader's Choice Award: The Best Car 2006
    http://www.roadandtrack.com/article....rticle_id=3056

    And it was the Reader's Choice Award: Best Car of 2005 as well:
    http://www.roadandtrack.com/article....rticle_id=1811

    Oh, and the Best All-Around Sports Car....ever:
    http://www.roadandtrack.com/article....page_number=10


    Oh, but you're obviously right that it's a crappy plastic pig that nobody likes that sucks in performance and value. EVERYBODY else is just wrong.
    Last edited by Speedette; 05-16-2006 at 08:17 AM.
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  14. #43
    Registered User Juice33's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MagikMan
    It's not just the power:weight that makes the difference of the cobra vs. vette... It's actually more the powerband of the ls1. When I race a '03 cobra with a ported supercharger, pulley, chip, and exhaust... When they are at peak, I can see them start to close the gap... but my power band is longer, and then I start to pull furter and further. I pretty much put a car through each gear, then they make up half a car... if that makes sense. Also, I run the same times as a f-body with my same power... well with in a tenth... and the fbody is only like 200lbs lighter than the cobra.... 100horsepower is a lot... and it's true... cobras are dyno queens... i'm not knocking them at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by MagikMan
    This is true... it obviously depends on conditions... but I ran a 13.5 stock... just the vararam dropped me to a 12.9.... i went from a 8.7 in the 1/8 to a 8.3. Slapped the heads and cam on... I should be looking low - mid 11's.
    It's not true, only on your corvette boards do people say that Cobras are dyno queens. As you said in another post, you "should run a 13.5" in the 1/4. Now a 520 rwhp Cobra (100 more rwhp like you said) should run very low 11s if not touch the 10s, that is hardly a dyno queen or running the same times as you think you will run. Sounds to me like the one you raced simply couldn't drive/shift very well, that is a driver issue, not a car issue. You cannot base your opinion on what one guy at your local track runs, that is not enough evidence to prove anything. Plus you haven't even run that 11.5 so how do you know you will run the same time. You can't take the best time of someone else with your mods and then just put them up against some random local and conclude the Cobra is a dyno queen.

    However, if anyone wants to make that bet about about an 03-04 Cobra coming with a solid axel, I will throw down $1000 that says it comes with an IRS.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeffbmx00 View Post
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  15. #44
    Registered User MagikMan's Avatar
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    I'm judging by about 8 or 9 other cars I now with my exact same set up that ran anywhere from 10.90's through 11.40's.... obviously depending on conditions. I can link you to some timeslips if you don't believe me.

    And about the dyno queen comment... the only place where people don't call them dyno queens is the SVT threads.... no biggie... don't take a it personal... I'd rather my car dyno in the 500's and run the same times as it does now.

    Back to the thread... I think it's pretty obvious that the vette wasn't hauling ass.
    1999 Corvette; vararam cold air intake; ls6 intake manifold; cartek stage 2x heads; cartek stage 2x cam; ported ls6 oil pump; hardened pushrods; 1 7/8" headers with full 3" exhaust back; hardened output shaft; 3.90rear gears.... 420rwhp

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    Registered User Herknav's Avatar
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    What do you mean my 99 Cobra didn't have IRS? Gosh, coulda fooled me...


    Never heard of a 03-04 Cobra called a "Dyno Queen"... in fact, I never even heard the term before... I have heard the term "Terminator"... I am sure that name was earned on the Dyno...

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