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New VW GTI review

8K views 40 replies 11 participants last post by  XJman 
#1 ·
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/23/...video-review-2017-volkswagen-golf-gti-se.html

I am quite a fan of Tom Voelk's video reviews. Funny that he drove the GTI off the road...that wouldn't have happened with a WRX with the right tires...

He almost sells me on the GTI, but keeping in mind that for $30K plus you're getting a FWD car with 220 HP, I still think the WRX is the better bang for the buck. Plus VW reliability and even honesty is questionable...

That said, I really like the interior styling. I'm a fan of the teutonic clean and refined design. Not a huge fan of the current exterior design, but then one could quibble about the WRX as well...
 
#2 ·
I agree.

Plus VW reliability and even honesty is questionable...
Reliability is indeed questionable. I will not buy any VAG product at this point, even those not made in Germany (and I extend this to bikes; no Ducatis for me).

Honesty is not questionable. They admit they are dishonest.

I'm out of their fan club. I'm sure they're crying into a train car full of money, but in any case they're not getting what little I have.

That said, I really like the interior styling. I'm a fan of the teutonic clean and refined design.
It can be heavy-handed or austere at times but it is very attractive usually, I agree.
 
#3 ·
When it comes to fit, finish and flat interior feel for the price VW is hard to beat. Even the cheapest VW has a surprisingly nice quality feel. I am not sold at all on the reliability factor of the car in general, but if you want to have the best interior for the money I genuinely feel VW can't be beat.

I can promise you that would have happened regardless of the vehicle, it was less the vehicle he was in and more coming in hot to a wet dirty corner. AWD wouldn't have done anything to stop as he had no steering. AWD doesn't add traction, it just distributes it better among 4 wheels making the most of available tire grip on a hard acceleration. Thats why it kills in WRC.

As far as VW's honesty. I can assure you, they were just the ones that got caught. That type of thing isn't unique among vehicle manufacturers, or even suppliers.
 
#4 · (Edited)
I like the GTI interior a lot. I drove a Tiguan for awhile as a rental and was not as impressed.

Re' the slide earlier shots show the VW with what look like summer performance tires--different tires might make a difference. Also, I think one might be able power out of a slide using AWD if it's not too far gone. (I've never slid off the road in any kind of weather, period, just sayin'...)

Finally, there's a good chance the Subie could have gotten back on the road without a tow.

Re' VW's scandal other manufacturers have lied about mileage issues--the worst cases seem to be almost exclusively with European manufacturers and diesel engines, which of course Subaru doesn't have. Apparently Mitsubishi admitted to lying about emissions in cars sold in Japan.

Mitsubishi: We've been cheating on fuel tests for 25 years - Apr. 26, 2016

I'm not aware of anything involving Subaru, Toyota or Honda.
 
#5 ·
I would not own any German vehicle that wasn't new or CPO...before the warranty ran out, it would be out of my possession.
 
#9 ·
XJman said:
That's where I differ. I would much rather own an older mid to late 2000s and earlier bmw than anything new. And VW brands mk 1 or mk 2 era only.
If I was looking at used luxury vehicle from that era, Lexus.
 
#10 ·
I'm not saying there were no better options. I was referring to German built vehicles only. I've always liked the early 2000's Lexus IS and the Accura TL, and still today ponder finding a TL for cheap and using it as a daily driver.
 
#11 ·
I had gotten a 2002 Acura CL for my son to drive--automatic--but a REALLY nice car, easily comparable to a BMW 325 from the era and a better bang for the buck. Had only 70K miles on it when I got it.

It developed transmission problems at about 120K miles and was eventually disposed of--not sure exactly what happened, since I was 600 miles away, but I imagine it had to do with my son driving the he** out of it and not maintaining it.
 
#12 ·
Honda transmissions from the era had a few issues -- those fitted with their V6 engines specifically. They were sorted out later and our now solid once again as far as I know.
 
#13 · (Edited)
I still think the WRX is the better bang for the buck.
Depends on what you're looking for. The VW is probably much easier to live with. I know the one I sat in a few months ago felt leaps and bounds more refined and comfortable than my STI.

I would not own any German vehicle that wasn't new or CPO...before the warranty ran out, it would be out of my possession.

However, this. ^^^ But who am I kidding? I ditch all of my cars within a couple years, so this would be no exception.
 
#14 ·
Keep in mind 220hp is under rated if you live any where near sea level and have access to 91-93 octane. Dyno numbers have put GTI power near the 240-250bhp range and in instrumented tests, the GTI was usually about .2 of second within the Focus ST.
The last VW I owned was a 2013 GLI and a purely stock Dyno (On a Mustang Dyno) yielded 201.1 whp. My car was rated at 200BHP. Also got 204 ft-tq for being rated at 207tq

Reliability is indeed questionable. I will not buy any VAG product at this point, even those not made in Germany (and I extend this to bikes; no Ducatis for me).

Honesty is not questionable. They admit they are dishonest.
Ducati is Italian. they just happened to be a subsidiary of Audi via ownership of Lamborghini. Still the Italians are not known for reliability either XD. And I agree that VW just got caught cheating. In addition to Mitsubishi, Mercedes ( https://www.hbsslaw.com/cases/merce...ons-tests-in-nearly-all-real-world-conditions ) is also being accused of cheating. The dominoes are falling with diesels in general....


When it comes to fit, finish and flat interior feel for the price VW is hard to beat. Even the cheapest VW has a surprisingly nice quality feel. I am not sold at all on the reliability factor of the car in general, but if you want to have the best interior for the money I genuinely feel VW can't be beat.
.
Reliability can be hit or miss. I had a 2007 GTI for nearly 5 years and 80k miles. The biggest problem I had was misfires from a lean after market tune. My GLI I only had for 4 years 65k miles. Also reliable despite my attempts to make it not so (Modding). They are far from perfect though. I have seen lots of problematic threads about electrical issues and fuel pumps going bad.

I would not own any German vehicle that wasn't new or CPO...before the warranty ran out, it would be out of my possession.
I would definitely agree. German cars cannot be beat on like most japanese vehicles. They must be maintained properly and used as directed. If you have no maintanence history on ANY used German vehicle, keep on walking.
 
#16 ·
VW commented on its power rating stating that it is providing a "Guaranteed minumum" power output. so example, 220bhp is guaranteed if you are in colorado, using 89 octane. If you are closer to sealevel using 93 octane you will see more power. The Germans in general have been doing this kind of thing for years. it also didnt stop the Japanese from rating their sports cars at "276"bhp for nearly a decade despite producing vehicles (Skylines, Supras etc.) that eclipsed 300 bhp due to a gentlemans agreement not to escalate a horse power war.
 
#19 ·
I can make a dyno say my stage 2 WRX is 500whp.

When the engines are designed and tested they have to be tested under a specific situation. The power is given based off of that. I've not looked to verify if the advertised number is SAE or not, but if it is putting down a legitimate 220whp then the car is not advertising SAE hp

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#22 ·
from their website: Certification of engine power and torque to SAE J1349® or SAE J1995® is voluntary UNLESS in publication a number is stated AS SAE CERTIFIED.

IIRC VW, BMW most german makes do not participate. From what I understand all of the American Marquees do.
 
#23 ·
Well, I can assure you that by in large we meet SAE standards. I work for a teir 1 German automotive supplier and work closely with bmw and VW. They may be supplying power at the wheels right now but that will soon change when insurance institutions and other folks start to question it.

VW just got butt hammered on emissions. Any number fudging will soon end.

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#25 ·
I blast them too much to say a name here, but a few other members including jbravo AK can verify.

Many folks don't understand the standards and what we wiggle through and what we stand firm with. This is the age of the frivolous lawsuits and we don't want to waste money fighting cocky lawyers. SAE isn't written in stone, but it gives us a defense against certain litigation if something doesn't live up. Even fasteners are SAE certified and we never vary from those thread pitches even if a modified pitch is a better choice

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#26 ·
Im not trying to call you out on lying about working in the industry. I am merely curious. I work in the tech industry for a manufaturer of life safety and electronic components. Its always good to debate with a fellow tech/engineer/gear head in general. SAE Has a lot of standards that apply to a broad field. I agree that SAE certification is important when it comes to saftey equipment and instrumentation standards just like my company is bending to UL. We dont HAVE to. However in order to list our devices as UL1069 (Just like SAE, UL has a ton of different certification numbers for different types of equipment) compliant we must comply with their standards. Now when our product gets sold in countries like Austalia or Canada, they end up using it outside of UL constrains because their counties\Goverment bodies dont give a rats ass about Universal Listing ha! I just question whether measuring Horse power to SAE standards is such a contraversial subject.
 
#27 ·
The insurance industry for one likes to know. There is an entire different risk insuring a 300hp challenger than there is a 700hp one. That is part of why HP is rated consistently across the board.

There is also the issue with lawyers. "Ahhh well my clients car was advertised at 200hp and it only makes 199.

Just wait until you have to deal with ISO standards.

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#29 ·
Medical field is likely the reason. We had a few FDA things we had to deal with at my last company because on top of our turbine coupling business we dealt with food industry equipment.

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#33 ·
Just my 2 cents - owned a 2007 GTI - it was really fun to drive, an all..but problematic. I had random check engine lights, blew a head gasket for no reason, had to constantly check the oil levels and top up the oil every month or so...plus there was always beige butter in the oil , meaning water contamination...
everytime I started the car, it reeked of gas..and the VW mechanics coudnt find a way to fix it !!
I had this car in and out of the VW garage at least 3 times a year.. ! For that reason I got fed up and bought a WRX. Its only been 6 months, but this car has had ZERO issues ! ( 2012 model ). I used to be a big VW fan boy, having owned a Jetta, a cabrio and the GTI...I wont be going back.
 
#34 ·
Yeah, I've mentioned it before, but the VW Jetta carries the distinction of being the only car in modern memory (for me) that has literally shut off on me in 55mph traffic, immediately putting me in danger of being hit. That was after numerous gremlins showed themselves in the car (which was a rental..I was traveling for work)
This experience really soured me on the possibility of owning a VW product in the near term.
 
#35 ·
My older Cabrio was a flawless car. It rusted out before there were any issues. Parts were cheap, and the car was a workhorse. The only big issue was my friends calling it a "hairdresser car".
The Jetta was also a great car - it was boring and ugly, but it performed well, and never broke down.

GTI was not reliable tho.
 
#36 ·
Well sure...my '70 Beetle was great, in high school. I worked on it constantly...but that was more about me learning to modify it than because it needed it, lol.
This Jetta though...and this is maybe back in about 2012, the windshield wipers would suddenly start moving, with no interaction on my part. The doors locked and unlocked by themselves, over and over as I was going down the road. And then it just quit, as I tried to make my way back to the airport in Toronto. I was fortunate to be in the far right lane, with enough room and car spacing to safely go over to the shoulder..where I tried for 5 minutes and finally got the car started again.
That kind of thing leaves an impression.

Hertz wound up giving me a free rental over it..though it wasn't their fault, really.
 
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