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This is a discussion on Motor Trend Comparo. WRX vs ST vs MS3 within the Comparison: WRX vs World forums, part of the Community - Meet other Enthusiasts category; I have to say... WRX brakes look pretty wimpy by comparison...

  1. #16
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    I have to say... WRX brakes look pretty wimpy by comparison
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  3. #17
    and the Funky Bunch Calvinball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zax View Post
    I have to say... WRX brakes look pretty wimpy by comparison
    I think it wins for stopping distance, though, doesn't it?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Calvinball View Post
    I think it wins for stopping distance, though, doesn't it?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Calvinball View Post
    I think it wins for stopping distance, though, doesn't it?
    Only because the pieces of the inevitably shattered gears get lodged in the output shaft aiding in decel.
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    Not as many parts left over this time... what am I missing?

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    Seriously on the brakes: maybe shorter distance, but repeated stopping, heat, fade are also important. However, many of ours are modded and then things change drastically....
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    Registered User wrx1234's Avatar
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    WRX also have better tires i think.
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    As close as these cars are in measured performance, any given day any advantage would be down to the better driver. Every car has it's good and it's weak points. If you can exploit the good, and work around the weak areas....thats the real difference.

    The WRX has what I'm looking for in a car. I'm done with FWD cars because I hate torque steer. No matter how creative they get, when you put that much power down in a FWD car....there are going to be issues with torque steer. The AWD system in the WRX is a great, proven system, and best of all....no torque steer. Some say the WRX should have a 6 speed gearbox, but there again for daily use....no problem here with a 5 speed. There is enough torque to make it a moot point for daily driving. If I were racing or auto crossing....might be a different story.

    I'm so tired of hearing about how crapy the interior is. Frankly I don't know what the issue is. It's got bluetooth, controls on the steering wheel, the homelink works great, the stereo may not be outstanding, but is adequate for sure. So there are some hard plastics, and some of the electronics are not all next gen. It all seems to work. I've also got the boost gauge and the factory short throw shifter. The shifter was mostly to get rid of the usually Subaru "rubbery" shift feel, rather than shorten the throws much. No complaints here. The seats are nice, red stitching....it's all good.

    The other two are fine cars, but obviously not the one I'd pick out of the three to be my daily driver. Different strokes I guess, but with your average driver I don't think any of these cars hold a big advantage over the other. Just a matter of which one works for you.
    Last edited by XRedJar; 04-04-2013 at 07:56 AM.
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  10. #24
    Registered User wrx1234's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XRedJar View Post
    As close as these cars are in measured performance, any given day any advantage would be down to the better driver. Every car has it's good and it's weak points. If you can exploit the good, and work around the weak areas....thats the real difference.

    The WRX has what I'm looking for in a car. I'm done with FWD cars because I hate torque steer. No matter how creative they get, when you put that much power down in a FWD car....there are going to be issues with torque steer. The AWD system in the WRX is a great, proven system, and best of all....no torque steer. Some say the WRX should have a 6 speed gearbox, but there again for daily use....no problem here with a 5 speed. There is enough torque to make it a moot point for daily driving. If I were racing or auto crossing....might be a different story.

    I'm so tired of hearing about how crapy the interior is. Frankly I don't know what the issue is. It's got bluetooth, controls on the steering wheel, the homelink works great, the stereo may not be outstanding, but is adequate for sure. So there are some hard plastics, and some of the electronics are not all next gen. It all seems to work. I've also got the boost gauge and the factory short throw shifter. The shifter was mostly to get rid of the usually Subaru "rubbery" shift feel, rather than shorten the throws much. No complaints here. The seats are nice, red stitching....it's all good.

    The other two are fine cars, but obviously not the one I'd pick out of the three to be my daily driver. Different strokes I guess, but with your average driver I don't think any of these cars hold a big advantage over the other. Just a matter of which one works for you.
    I have to disagree on the idea that performance wise they are equal on any given day... fastest 0-60 and 1/4 (killed the others), fastest lap times, best braking, most front head room and leg room and awd. That's not considered equal performance. Losing 1-2 seconds on a small track every lap is not a close race, the better breaking, AWD and power mean everything there. While many will say trap time tells you how fast the car is the fact is the WRX wins by over a second (8-10 car lengths). It also has the better weight distribution... we can keep going on. Performance, the WRX is better.
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  11. #25
    Registered User XRedJar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wrx1234 View Post
    I have to disagree on the idea that performance wise they are equal on any given day... fastest 0-60 and 1/4 (killed the others), fastest lap times, best braking, most front head room and leg room and awd. That's not considered equal performance. Losing 1-2 seconds on a small track every lap is not a close race, the better breaking, AWD and power mean everything there. While many will say trap time tells you how fast the car is the fact is the WRX wins by over a second (8-10 car lengths). It also has the better weight distribution... we can keep going on. Performance, the WRX is better.
    I discount the 0 - 60 and 1/4 mile times a bit, and here is why......to get those times you have to launch it HARD. That is not something you are going to do often or you will be replacing clutches or gearboxes. Some may wind it up and launch hard, but I'm not going to.

    Yes, the others were not as fast on a track, but a driver who is comparing all three back to back won't be getting the best times out of each car either. You have to spend some significant time in each to know how to extract the best out of each car. Again, translating track times to equality in everyday driving is not the best yardstick.

    I'm not saying that the WRX is not better, just that the differences reported on paper won't be that huge if you decided to give one a sporting run down a back road. That and the driver would have a lot to do with how close it would be also. Not that I advocate street racing, because I don't.

    I agree the WRX is the best of the three. I agree that stock vs stock on a track (equally skilled drivers) the WRX will come out ahead. I prefer the WRX as a daily driver to the other two. I am only saying that the average Joe would not recognize a huge gap in performance between the three in the real world.
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  12. #26
    Administrator RayfieldsWRX's Avatar
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    My usual measure for how a car will accelerate in real-world traffic is the quarter mile trap speed, because it removes much of the AWD launch bias from the equation. I'm actually a little surprised to see the WRX tie with the MS3 at 100mph. I would have thought that the Mazda's lesser driveline losses would have given it an advantage once rolling. Obviously, the world isn't so simple.
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  13. #27
    Registered User Rummie's Avatar
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    In my mind, I like to think that when Subaru finally does make the switch to the new technologies the other companies are already employing, that they will be producing a far superior product when that time comes. As it stands they are competitive with fairly old technology... But I am prone to wishful (read: delusional) thinking. Some of those European only hatches are just stunning to look at, and have been putting down over 200 hp with minimal displacement for awhile now... but still just FWD

    I like both the MS3 and ST. Nice cars, nice equipment, nice power, nice price. Just not AWD. The sheer terror of torque steer is just a bit too much "fun" for me at my age.
    Last edited by Rummie; 04-04-2013 at 12:31 PM. Reason: I are good spellar
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  14. #28
    zax
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    Quote Originally Posted by RayfieldsWRX View Post
    My usual measure for how a car will accelerate in real-world traffic is the quarter mile trap speed, because it removes much of the AWD launch bias from the equation. I'm actually a little surprised to see the WRX tie with the MS3 at 100mph. I would have thought that the Mazda's lesser driveline losses would have given it an advantage once rolling. Obviously, the world isn't so simple.
    I think we can all agree that the modern WRX is underrated as much as the bugeyes were overrated when it comes to power output. A stock 2013 WRX puts down approx. equal power to the STi (much in the same manner Ver 2 STis were related to their WRX brethren). A 265hp WRX may (indeed) sit considerably higher on the bhp scale than the 263hp MS3. Wheel horsepower is wheel horsepower... it doesn't matter the number of drive wheels.
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  15. #29
    Administrator RayfieldsWRX's Avatar
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    Yeah, I guess I was saying that if you believe the crank hp numbers, the MS3 should indeed put down higher wheel numbers. I don't bother keeping up with what each year of WRX puts down at the dyno...but what you're saying about the underrating certainly explains the test results.
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  16. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by RayfieldsWRX View Post
    Yeah, I guess I was saying that if you believe the crank hp numbers, the MS3 should indeed put down higher wheel numbers. I don't bother keeping up with what each year of WRX puts down at the dyno...but what you're saying about the underrating certainly explains the test results.
    Looked on the Cobb site pulled the dyno database got all 3 cars with stock pulls from the same dyno.

    I made a mistake the WRX must be modified... Below the pic is a stock WRX dyno pull from that dyno and an STI.




    Last edited by wrx1234; 04-28-2013 at 06:58 AM.
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