2013 GT - 2009-12 WRX comparison - Page 5
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This is a discussion on 2013 GT - 2009-12 WRX comparison within the Comparison: WRX vs World forums, part of the Community - Meet other Enthusiasts category; To think, I am the opposite. After owning a 2006 Mustang GT, there is no way I would have considered ...

  1. #61
    Registered User gunz4me's Avatar
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    To think, I am the opposite. After owning a 2006 Mustang GT, there is no way I would have considered an updated variant of the S197 platform because of its inherent problems. For those who think the WRX interior is noisy, try owning the S197 for a few years and get back to me. I must have used foam between every plastic part I could think of in my 2006, and I was still discovering new squeaks and rattles every time it cooled off. In fact, I never figured out how to get rid of the constant annoying rattle of the passenger's seat or where the dash pad sat on the AC ducts, despite placing foam between the dash and the AC ducts.

    Oh, and I hope Ford addressed the problems with the front strut mounts and rear lower control arms. If not, the OP will find out soon enough what I am talking about. One more question, did Ford figure out how to tame the rear end induced bump steer when encountering potholes or severely uneven surfaces in curves or turns? I put a lot of money into my suspension and that was one thing that absolutely drove me nuts because I couldn't stop it no matter how hard I tried.

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  3. #62
    Registered User Ingen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunz4me View Post
    One more question, did Ford figure out how to tame the rear end induced bump steer when encountering potholes or severely uneven surfaces in curves or turns? I put a lot of money into my suspension and that was one thing that absolutely drove me nuts because I couldn't stop it no matter how hard I tried.
    Yes, independent rear suspension has been confirmed for the next revision. Woot.
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  4. #63
    Registered User Ingen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RayfieldsWRX View Post
    Yeah, folks that hail from union families tend to have strong feelings about it. I respect the feeling behind the rhetoric, however it doesn't change what I've observed doing machine installations in both union and non-union plants.

    I feel bad for the union plant in Muncie, IN, where I installed 2 different production lines...STRONG union presence, grievances constantly posted, demands for constant raises, crazy benefits for longtermers, constant stoppage of their lines to have meetings, etc. When the overall company was bought out, the new owners looked at that plant, saw how inefficient they were by comparison to others, and closed them down. Hundreds of jobs simply vanished over a period of a few weeks. Yay, union.

    Sorry to hurt feelings, but the experience of putting in a line in a non-union facility was nearly always smoother/quicker/more fun. Folks that are supposed to be helping you would simply disappear on a mandated union break for long periods of time, and as a non-union person I would be forbidden from plugging into the controller in an electrical panel that I designed. Everyone loses, because the entire endeavor cost more, took more time, and aggravated my coworkers.

    You will also have a hard time convincing me that United Auto Workers is a great thing for America.
    I'm sure much of what you think about unions and their necessity was once very true. At this point, people aren't tied down to a geographical area so much, and options abound for those that aren't happy with their job.

    Philosophically, I've always had a hard time with the idea that, as an American worker, I should blackmail as much as possible out of my employer. I'm more of an "individual with free will" kinda guy. If I hate my job, my boss, my working conditions, my salary, etc, I'll get off my butt and go find something better.

    LOL, been a while since I ranted.
    Yes to all this. When I worked for Ford in an internship, I was BAFFLED that we ever got anything done. As I continued to work there, over time I realized that they really didn't get much done - it was just a dead-locked war between engineers and union workers. The union workers constantly thought you were trying to optimize their job and make them do more work / get less break time between units, and the engineers always thought the union workers were trying to shirk work. When I would try ttheiro do machine improvements I would get some SERIOUS animosity, until I indicated that I didn't care about re balancing their work load, I just wanted to fix their machine that sucks. After that they were the BEST resource on the whole plant when it comes to information about a machine doing a poor job.

    But the relationship is ridiculous, honestly. And the top of the union is pretty much crooked, period, in my experience. But the workers themselves? You can't really blame them for union relations, they are a product of those who manage them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rex_Harrison View Post
    I'm 6'1 and I have no trouble seeing over the hood. The seating position isn't very low at all, in fact I wish it did go a little lower. You can't really beat the visibility in a WRX though. You can't go wrong with the WRX good choice. I will say this though, it feels awesome to drive an American car built by union workers especially because my grandfather, uncle, and I are union members as well. There's a sense of pride I get from driving this car that I didn't get from WRX.
    Yep, I agree..I did not want to buy another Jap car but the Americans do not make a small powerfull 4 door AWD sedan for anywhere near the Suby price. At my age I need a car I can get an electric scooter and case of adult diapers in the trunk. Somehow the Mustang just did not fit that bill. The best of both worlds is to put the 5.0 Coyote motor in the WRX, then we would really have something! Lets not get on the Union crap..but..I have been to a modern Ford plant and those guys work their ass off nowdays. They have to almost run back to their stations to keep up for the next car..it was brutal to watch.
    Last edited by Adrian8; 08-08-2012 at 01:08 PM.

  6. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunz4me View Post
    To think, I am the opposite. After owning a 2006 Mustang GT, there is no way I would have considered an updated variant of the S197 platform because of its inherent problems. For those who think the WRX interior is noisy, try owning the S197 for a few years and get back to me. I must have used foam between every plastic part I could think of in my 2006, and I was still discovering new squeaks and rattles every time it cooled off. In fact, I never figured out how to get rid of the constant annoying rattle of the passenger's seat or where the dash pad sat on the AC ducts, despite placing foam between the dash and the AC ducts.

    Oh, and I hope Ford addressed the problems with the front strut mounts and rear lower control arms. If not, the OP will find out soon enough what I am talking about. One more question, did Ford figure out how to tame the rear end induced bump steer when encountering potholes or severely uneven surfaces in curves or turns? I put a lot of money into my suspension and that was one thing that absolutely drove me nuts because I couldn't stop it no matter how hard I tried.
    I guess they fixed the interior because I haven't heard one noise yet and I've driven some cold nights already. I think your exaggerating a bit when you say your Mustang was noisier than a WRX. We all know how bad the new WRX's interior creaks and moans straight from the factory even on a warm day.

    2011+ Mustangs are a whole different animal than the first S197's. Pre 2010 mustangs are a joke in comparison IMO. The exterior was boring to say the least, the 4.6L was a dog that desperately needed to be put out of its misery.

    I hadn't liked a Mustang since the last 5.0 over 20 years ago, and before that a 70', so I'm not exactly a fan boy

  7. #66
    Registered User Joshmath's Avatar
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    How do I get rid of the creaks and moans (

  8. #67
    Registered User UEDan's Avatar
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    Turn up the music.
    I don't even noticed my squeaky clutch pedal anymore!
    ****K THAT SQUEAKY LITTLE ****!

  9. #68
    Registered User Joshmath's Avatar
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    ok I will turn it up!

  10. #69
    Registered User gunz4me's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rex_Harrison View Post
    I guess they fixed the interior because I haven't heard one noise yet and I've driven some cold nights already. I think your exaggerating a bit when you say your Mustang was noisier than a WRX. We all know how bad the new WRX's interior creaks and moans straight from the factory even on a warm day.
    Oh no, it was quite bad and a common complaint on the various mustang forums. I was basically told that I had to "live with it" because noise was typical of most muscle car type platforms. I want to say Ford addressed the pillar/dash pad issue in 2008 or 2009, and I think 2010 saw an implementation of different suspension components. At least they fixed the cowl leak that caused the Smart Junction Box to short out because you end up with a car that is utterly useless when that happens. Ask me how I know that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rex_Harrison View Post
    2011+ Mustangs are a whole different animal than the first S197's. Pre 2010 mustangs are a joke in comparison IMO. The exterior was boring to say the least, the 4.6L was a dog that desperately needed to be put out of its misery.
    Now that I will agree with. I test drove a 2011 5.0 and I will admit that it was way quicker than mine. It still had the same quirky handling characteristics on Louisiana's sub 3rd nation quality public highways though. Plus, it is going to take more than fast to get me in another Mustang, assuming that is even possible. EDIT: In this case, it seems as though competition was a good thing to force Ford to step up their game!

    Quote Originally Posted by Rex_Harrison View Post
    I hadn't liked a Mustang since the last 5.0 over 20 years ago, and before that a 70', so I'm not exactly a fan boy
    I actually liked the look of the 2005 since nothing else had that "retro" look. When it came time to choose a replacement, my thought process was that retro was so 2005. As a result, I ruled out the blind spot laden Camaro and the land barge Challenger. I was also looking at a used Audi RS4, a Lexus IS-F, and possibly a new M3, but then my wife informed me that she wanted a new house. And that is how I ended up with the WRX! She seems to think I am going to replace my car within the next year or two anyway... She's probably right!
    Last edited by gunz4me; 08-11-2012 at 12:23 PM.

  11. #70
    Registered User Officer Cartman's Avatar
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    Congrats on the new ride.. As an auto journalist, I recently had a 2013 Mustang GT for a week, and it was SO much fun!

    Here's the post I did about it:
    Review: 2013 Ford Mustang GT Premium - Guys Gab

    Ironically, when I bought my 2011 WRX, I had seriously considered getting a 2011 Mustang GT instead. But living in the Northeast, I figured I needed AWD. But let me tell you, the traction control in the new GTs is something else, and with proper snow tires I wouldn't have any qualms driving this car in the winter time.

    (I used to drive a '94 Mustang, and that was freaking SCARY in snow, and not much better in the rain)

    Ford's come a long way, and hopefully they don't muck things up with the redesigned 2015 Mustang..

  12. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Officer Cartman View Post
    Ford's come a long way, and hopefully they don't muck things up with the redesigned 2015 Mustang..
    I remain hopeful for an EcoBoost 3.5L Mustang GT
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    Registered User Officer Cartman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zax View Post
    I remain hopeful for an EcoBoost 3.5L Mustang GT
    It sounds like that's a definitely possibility, but still no word on what kind of numbers we can expect from it.. Doesn't the EcoBoost 3.5L in the Explorer only put out 350HP or so? That's never going to fly in a Mustang GT that currently puts out 420HP..

  14. #73
    zax
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    Quote Originally Posted by Officer Cartman View Post
    It sounds like that's a definitely possibility, but still no word on what kind of numbers we can expect from it.. Doesn't the EcoBoost 3.5L in the Explorer only put out 350HP or so? That's never going to fly in a Mustang GT that currently puts out 420HP..
    Initial speculation for the EcoBoost 3.5L in the Ford Raptor would have been 420hp and 450 ft-lbs of torque. That bump in torque would be FANTASTIC for a smallish car like the Mustang.

    Although the last time this sort of transition occurred was in the poorly-received 1984 Mustang SVO, despite superior performance to the Mustang GT in every way.
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  15. #74
    Registered User Officer Cartman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zax View Post
    Initial speculation for the EcoBoost 3.5L in the Ford Raptor would have been 420hp and 450 ft-lbs of torque. That bump in torque would be FANTASTIC for a smallish car like the Mustang.

    Although the last time this sort of transition occurred was in the poorly-received 1984 Mustang SVO, despite superior performance to the Mustang GT in every way.
    Gotcha.. I've heard the rumors about that engine going into the Raptor R, but had not seen any actual performance numbers. If they could pull off those kind of numbers, while keeping costs in check, that would be pretty incredible!

    The SVO was just ahead of it's time, but Ford's really got something good here with the EcoBoost engines. I drove one of the new 2013 Escape's with the 2.0L EcoBoost, and it was a huge improvement from the old V6 it replaced. (Of course, if you drive it hard all the time, the mileage suffers accordingly)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Officer Cartman View Post
    It sounds like that's a definitely possibility, but still no word on what kind of numbers we can expect from it.. Doesn't the EcoBoost 3.5L in the Explorer only put out 350HP or so? That's never going to fly in a Mustang GT that currently puts out 420HP..
    Don't expect the V8 to be replaced so soon. The Coyote engine is only 3years old. The ecoboost will most likely be a 3rd powerplant. Unless it is significantly cheaper or a lot better on gas ( which doesn't seem to be the case in current ecoboost models ) why the hell would you go with a turbo 3.5L instead of a N/A V8 which has much more potential to mod for power?

    Yes it will be slightly lighter in the front with the 3.5L and it will be exciting to see but only as a 3rd option or if it replaces the V6.

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