2011 WRX vs 2001 Porsche 911 Turbo

[J_Maher_WRX]

Hey everyone, just looking to get your guys opinions on a possible sell/acquisition of a new vehicle. I'm considering selling my 2011 WRX with ~33000 kms, to put the money on a used 2001 Porsche 911 Turbo with only 40K miles. I live in Newfoundland, Canada and would be flying to the US to drive the Porsche back if I decide to pull the trigger. Not sure if anyone on here knows this, but I am 21 years old and am an Engineering student working towards my degree. I have been able to get several very good workterms with large companies, so I am by no means a spoiled kid. I've got less than $8K left to pay on my WRX, which I have paid for 100% myself. The 911 would be a joint venture between me and my father, as he has been looking at getting a sports car for what seems like forever, but has never been able to really afford one until now. My plan is to sell the WRX, pay off my loan, and then use the rest to pay for almost all of my half of the 911. When I graduate with my degree, my plan was to let my father have the car solely as his, as my gift to him for helping me pay for my education (as of now its been paid for by scholarships I earned).

My plan would be to buy the 911 and then come winter time, I would finance a 3-4 year old used base impreza to use as a winter commuter car while the 911 is stored away. I could have the Impreza paid off in just a year at most, as my university is a co-op program, which means I have a 4 month semester of school, and then a 4 month paid workterm, which continues like that until I graduate.

The winter weather we get here in Newfoundland is pretty harsh, and even with the WRX, the power becomes totally unusable during the winter months here, with the potholes, salt, sand and snow/freezing rain we get. Still not 100% sure whether I will pull the trigger on this one, but I am seriously thinking about it, as it seems like a good oppurtunity for me to get a very nice car to use during 6-7 months of decent weather we get here.

If anyone has any advice or feedback it would be greatly appreciated, especially from any previous or current 911 owners, or even moreso Turbo owners (Teflon chime in here please lol). Please express any and all opinions regarding the subject matter! You guys have guided me and inspired me (thank you Lokey!) on my many of my mods in terms of what to do/not to do, and what to do first and I really appreciate your feedback! By far the nicest online community I've been apart of Also, not sure if this is in the right forum or not, apologies if it isn't, but I thought it kinda is a 911 vs WRX thing :P

Thanks guys!

Justin

[T0rque]

If you only have 8k left on the WRX I'd consider paying for your own schooling instead of relying on dad to do it for you. No need to give your dad a gift although we do love gifts from our kids your gift enough. I personally have never seen the point in owning a car you can only drive 6 months out of the year. I have cars that sit in my shop but any time out of the 12 months they can be driven as it isn't unheard of to have 50-60degree weather during our winters.. Just my opinion obviously but do as you wish.

[J_Maher_WRX]

If you only have 8k left on the WRX I'd consider paying for your own schooling instead of relying on dad to do it for you. No need to give your dad a gift although we do love gifts from our kids your gift enough. I personally have never seen the point in owning a car you can only drive 6 months out of the year. I have cars that sit in my shop but any time out of the 12 months they can be driven as it isn't unheard of to have 50-60degree weather during our winters.. Just my opinion obviously but do as you wish.

I am by no means 'relying' on my dad to pay for my education. Because of my geographical location, getting a full 6-year program degree will only cost 25-30K in tuition. My parents decided that they would be willing to pay for both mine and my brothers entire educations, as they want us to start out in th best position possible when we graduate, which I will certainly do as well for my kids one day. I was planning on buying some type of sports car in the years after I graduate regardless as a token of appreciation for everything they've done for me.

I get what you're saying too, but you don't know our winters lol they way I was looking at it, I have a fairly expensive car (paid $42K for mine including all extended warranties), that just gets 'beat up' on during the winter with salt and sand and snow which tears at my soul!

I looked at it like this is a great chance to get an awesome car, help pay for a sports car for my father, and then not have any of those worries during the winter months when driving just a cheaper commuter car. Have you had any experience in one by chance? I'm curious as to how the older 911's would compare handling wise and power wise to my wrx. I.e, different handling, power delivery etc. I've never even been in a Porsche before, trying to find out as much as I can about them

[teflon_jones]

There's really no comparison between the power, handling or just plain how they drive. The steering feel is much heavier and way better in terms of feedback and making you feel connected to the car. That's the part I like best. Braking has no comparison. You can thrash the Turbo brakes on the track and they do fine where even my new STI brakes don't come close. Power isn't close obviously, but the biggest problem with the power of the Turbo is you can't really use it on public roads. The car just starts to hit its stride at 100 where a Subaru is starting to really falter (even a 350 hp/tq car like my STI).

Prices on 2001-2005 911 Turbos are really low right now due to high production numbers and the lousy economy. You can find good examples for $45-50k and excellent ones for $50-55k. The biggest thing to watch out for is low mileage cars. These cars like to be driven and the higher mileage examples will consistently be more reliable than lower mileage cars. A 2001 with 40k miles is pretty low mileage at only 4k miles a year driven and on the bottom range of a car I'd even consider. Personally I'd rather buy a 2001 with 60k miles.

Another concern related to reliability is you're looking at $2-3k for any standard repairs, and you should probably figure one a year. Then throw in another $1500 a year for tires, $200 for oil changes, and you should probably figure on at least $500 but I'd say another $1000 for brake fluid, pads, rotors, and all of the other things you'll need to factor in. They're relatively cheap to buy but they're still very expensive to maintain.

The final thing I'll say in this post is a PPI (Pre-Purchase Inspection) is a required item for any Porsche purchase. This is the same check they do for Porsche-certified used cars and usually runs about $200. If it's a private party sale, you need to find a dealer the seller does NOT use for maintenance or buy cars from to have them take the car there for an accurate PPI. If it's a dealer sale, you need to have it taken to a different dealer for the PPI. No PPI = No Purchase. Period.

[J_Maher_WRX]

There's really no comparison between the power, handling or just plain how they drive. The steering feel is much heavier and way better in terms of feedback and making you feel connected to the car. That's the part I like best. Braking has no comparison. You can thrash the Turbo brakes on the track and they do fine where even my new STI brakes don't come close. Power isn't close obviously, but the biggest problem with the power of the Turbo is you can't really use it on public roads. The car just starts to hit its stride at 100 where a Subaru is starting to really falter (even a 350 hp/tq car like my STI).

Prices on 2001-2005 911 Turbos are really low right now due to high production numbers and the lousy economy. You can find good examples for $45-50k and excellent ones for $50-55k. The biggest thing to watch out for is low mileage cars. These cars like to be driven and the higher mileage examples will consistently be more reliable than lower mileage cars. A 2001 with 40k miles is pretty low mileage at only 4k miles a year driven and on the bottom range of a car I'd even consider. Personally I'd rather buy a 2001 with 60k miles.

Another concern related to reliability is you're looking at $2-3k for any standard repairs, and you should probably figure one a year. Then throw in another $1500 a year for tires, $200 for oil changes, and you should probably figure on at least $500 but I'd say another $1000 for brake fluid, pads, rotors, and all of the other things you'll need to factor in. They're relatively cheap to buy but they're still very expensive to maintain.

The final thing I'll say in this post is a PPI (Pre-Purchase Inspection) is a required item for any Porsche purchase. This is the same check they do for Porsche-certified used cars and usually runs about $200. If it's a private party sale, you need to find a dealer the seller does NOT use for maintenance or buy cars from to have them take the car there for an accurate PPI. If it's a dealer sale, you need to have it taken to a different dealer for the PPI. No PPI = No Purchase. Period.

Thanks for the detailed response Scott, appreciate it man! I couldn't agree more on the PPI, I would never even consider buying a used car without a totally independent inspection done first. Hmm, never expected the mileage thing to be a cause of worry though, I would have thought it to be the other way around! I've been using Cargurus to search for used Porsches in the US, any other site that you recommend checking?? The 2001 we are looking at is priced at $42,900 with 40K miles like I said. Anything over $50K is pretty much out of our price range, so we are trying to stick as close to $40K (think <$45K before taxes) and find the best deal we can. You can help me find great ads for 911 Turbo's if you'd like, you'd be my new best frannn

Yeah the yearly maintenance is definitely something that has to be considered. With the mileage it will see if we had it, I wouldn't think tires would be replaced every year, prob every two years for sure, but very good ones put on at those times. The vehicle is really only going to get less than say 15,000 miles on it per year, so I'm hoping that that will cut down on repair bills and regular maintenance somewhat, especially since its only being used for roughly half of the year, 8 months the absolute maximum.

I was in a buddy of mine's STi last week and I was shocked at how good the brakes were compared to mine in my WRX, if the Porsche's are a lot better again thats incredible. The whole top-end speed game is not really a concern for me either I don't think. The car will never be tracked (no tracks in our province..), and my father will really only use it mostly for cruising around with mom on the odd nice evening. He certainly will never have to worry about the car 'getting in to stride at 100mph' He is mostly looking for a really nice car that he can go for a drive in, that is sporty and nice looking and that is something uncommon (So far, I believe there is only a single 911 Turbo in the entire province lol).

I on the other hand, will definitely be looking for the performance aspect of the car, although I certainly won't have any need of the top end speed as well. I will moreso look to use it on the twistys and that is where I think I will really enjoy it. And even up to that 100mph mark, I am sure that I will not be dissappointed with the power. I will admit, I am pretty excited at this potential buy. The fastest car I have been in to date is my buddys STi, which is not a whole deal faster than mine. I'm excited just to drive such an awesome machine, something that is 100% a true sports car. I love my WRX and its been a blast so far, but it's not a patch on a porsche, especially when it comes to interior quality.

[J_Maher_WRX]

Bailed on the 911 idea, after realizing what it might cost in just maintenance alone, be scary to even see what it might cost if anything really went wrong. Dad's looking at a muscle car now, either a challenger or a new 5.0. He even had his eye on the new boss 302 :P

My plan is to trade the car in either this fall or next spring on an STi sedan, at least then I can build the car without having to worry about the trans at all

[teflon_jones]

That's probably a good idea if the maintenance is a concern. When you say it won't be driven more than 15k miles a year, you need to realize at most you'll get 10k miles out of a set of rears (I got only 7-8k even before I added all the mods/power) and a good quality set of rears including mounting/balancing is $900+. An oil change is $120 minimum as a DIY and $200 at a dealer (10 quarts of oil) and must be done at least once a year.

These cars aren't cheap to own! They are an amazing value considering you can get a car that stickered for ~$120k for 1/3 of that price with under 50k miles on it. One thing that you could consider is getting an extended warranty. For under $4000 you can get a fully transferable warranty with $100 deductible that covers the car bumper-to-bumper.

The muscle car sounds like a better idea though since you can get a brand new Challenger or Mustang GT 5.0 for the same price range brand new. However, it's not going to be even close to the same class as the used 911 in speed, handling, braking, interior, exterior looks or anything else!

[John M]

I think a new Boss 302 is up to an acceleration contest with an 01 911 turbo. Real world times range from 12.2 to 12.4 on street tires and into the 11.70s on drag radials. My 12.5's Stealth beat one -- a fellow 3S club member so it wasn't a random pairing at the strip.

I still could never be a Mustang owner though. I'd go with a Challenger SRT8 because I don't mind a big cruiser. I have no desire to carve corners anymore.

If I was recommending a car for someone's dad I'd recommend a Mercedes E55 sedan or CL55 coupe. They are available pretty cheaply and can make stupid power with simple mods. A CL600 brings a twin turbo v12 and an endless supply of toque - just hold your foot down until you're in jail or your sphincter overrides your foot! A C5 Z06 is cheap fun too.

[teflon_jones]

I think a new Boss 302 is up to an acceleration contest with an 01 911 turbo. Real world times range from 12.2 to 12.4 on street tires and into the 11.70s on drag radials. My 12.5's Stealth beat one -- a fellow 3S club member so it wasn't a random pairing at the strip.

The Boss 302 seems to be an excellent new car and the first factory Mustang that actually handles really well in addition to going fast in a straight line. I've read and watched a lot of great reviews about them. I don't really have anything bad to say about the car! I'd still prefer the '01 911 Turbo over it though. Better braking, steering feel, and driver involvement would top the list of why. Then there's the looks and the 911 is still a better looking car 10 years later than the Mustang is new. But that's just my opinion. The 302 is a nice looking car though and I have a hard time saying anything bad about it!

The useable acceleration on both cars is pretty similar. The 911 will kill it over 100 due to aerodynamics, but how often are you really driving over 100 (unless you're me and I do it just about every time I drive my 911 ).

I still could never be a Mustang owner though. I'd go with a Challenger SRT8 because I don't mind a big cruiser. I have no desire to carve corners anymore.

If I was recommending a car for someone's dad I'd recommend a Mercedes E55 sedan or CL55 coupe. They are available pretty cheaply and can make stupid power with simple mods. A CL600 brings a twin turbo v12 and an endless supply of toque - just hold your foot down until you're in jail or your sphincter overrides your foot! A C5 Z06 is cheap fun too.

Those M-B cars are definitely cruisers and you yourself admitted that's what you're into. It sounds like the OP and his dad don't want a cruiser and want more of a performance car and carver.

[John M]

All Porsches (and most Mercedes & BMW) have a timeless design. Their shapes evolve slowly around a central theme where other automakers make radical changes seemingly on a whim. 10 years from now people will say it's a great looking car and most won't know what year it was made.

Corvettes do it too, and that's what helps make the previous Z06 such a bargain. The Benzes may be considered cruisers but they'll do anything most drivers would be willing to attempt on public streets. If you're planning track days, something lighter & more nimble might be the key. If you just want good handling at 9/10ths and brutal straight line power they're the easy ticket.

I understand high end cars too. My brother has a CL65. It's now 7 years old (23k miles) and looks plain but it runs 11.8 @ 122 in bone stock trim (with an open differential) thanks to 605 horsepower and 740 tq. Those figures can be raised over 100 each with just a tune (around $1400) and several hundred more once you start doing exhaust & turbo swaps. Like you said, it's not all fun & games when you bring maintenance into the picture. Brake rotors are $1k each. Simple oil changes do run $200 and up. You'll find nothing for it at the local AutoZone

Sheep's clothing:

[RayfieldsWRX]

I admire what MB brings to the mix. 2 downers for me, strictly based on my personal prefs...with a vehicle weight of 4600 lbs., I'll bet it feels nice and solid like a bank vault, but couldn't be as nimble as something weighing in the 3000-3400 lb range. The other thing is I don't think that they ever produced that car with a manual, correct?

I'm not completely disqualifying it. I suppose there could be a time in the future where I want to have such a car as a luxury/sport stopgap, and I also own a lighter weight sports car.

[xFalleNx]

The other thing is I don't think that they ever produced that car with a manual, correct?

VERY rare for a US car to have a manual trans, a few models were offered with it, very limited though.

[teflon_jones]

All Porsches (and most Mercedes & BMW) have a timeless design. Their shapes evolve slowly around a central theme where other automakers make radical changes seemingly on a whim. 10 years from now people will say it's a great looking car and most won't know what year it was made.

Corvettes do it too, and that's what helps make the previous Z06 such a bargain.

Hear hear! My 911 is 8 years old yet it still gets comments constantly from people about its looks. Very few people can even tell what year it is, and most are surprised to hear it's an 8 year old car.

I wouldn't share that opinion on the Corvette though (in terms of looks not performance). The general wedge shape has stayed constant for years, but there's a big difference in how the cars look other than when they went from the last flip-up headlight model to the first one with fixed headlights. But maybe that's what you're referring to since I'm not sure if they made a Z06 prior to the last flip-up headlight model (I know there was one before this but it wasn't a real performance monster like today, and they had ZR1 models too that also weren't really anything special). I don't know how they refer to the different generations of Corvettes i.e. how Porsche uses the 99x numbers now for the 911 or BMW uses the eXX designation.

If I could get over the huge size of the Corvette, the crappy interiors, and the mid-life-crisis-mobile stereotype an old Z06 would make a fabulous track car. There's a guy in the Porsche club that brings one to the track days and with just minor mods to the suspension, brakes, and engine the car is a track monster.

The Benzes may be considered cruisers but they'll do anything most drivers would be willing to attempt on public streets. If you're planning track days, something lighter & more nimble might be the key. If you just want good handling at 9/10ths and brutal straight line power they're the easy ticket.

This is very true. I don't think I can use more than maybe 7/10 of what my Porsche can do on most roads because if you lose it you're going to be going so fast you'll probably die and at the very least total the car. I put my 911 around ass backwards at my last track event because at 100+ mph one tiny little mistake is all it takes to lose it. On most public roads that would be a disaster! I passed my buddy too late coming into a corner at the end of the straight and in slowing from 150 to 100 my line was off only by a couple of feet and that was all it took.

I understand high end cars too. My brother has a CL65. It's now 7 years old (23k miles) and looks plain but it runs 11.8 @ 122 in bone stock trim (with an open differential) thanks to 605 horsepower and 740 tq. Those figures can be raised over 100 each with just a tune (around $1400) and several hundred more once you start doing exhaust & turbo swaps. Like you said, it's not all fun & games when you bring maintenance into the picture. Brake rotors are $1k each. Simple oil changes do run $200 and up. You'll find nothing for it at the local AutoZone

While that's true, the high TQ late-model M-B cars are notorious for not being able to put the power to the road. If you ever watch the M-B drives on Top Gear, even the lowly E55 AMG had too much power to put it to the ground effectively. The Brabus SL that was at 800(?) TQ was practically undriveable and the traction control was interfering so much trying to control the power/skidding it cooked the brakes. It was worthless on corners and even in a straight line you couldn't put the power down.

[John M]

I admire what MB brings to the mix. 2 downers for me, strictly based on my personal prefs...with a vehicle weight of 4600 lbs., I'll bet it feels nice and solid like a bank vault, but couldn't be as nimble as something weighing in the 3000-3400 lb range. The other thing is I don't think that they ever produced that car with a manual, correct?

They don't have a manual that can hold the torque of the v12 which is limited already to keep that trans from exploding. When driving you know it's a little portly but it gets the job done like the Skyline: pure power and a ton of technology. You put the stickiest rubber you can find on it (current tires are Bridgestone RE11, a favorite of blown C6 owners) and let the power do the rest. It might not be pretty but it's still effective. The 5spd auto shifts so well in sport mode I've never touched the "flappy paddles." It downshifts when you would as you approach a turn and it doesn't upshift immediately when you left off the throttle, allowing you to modulate the throttle without interference. The active suspension means there is zero body roll and no "nose-up" sensation on acceleration. It's more like a plane taking off when you hit it. The sensation of speed is muted; you have to see the speedo to realize exactly how you're accelerating. Magazine 0-60 is 3.8 sec.

It accelerates even harder than its 122 traps would have you believe. Keep in mind that full power isn't seen till after 60 mph as traction is finally available. For perspective it ran even with a Ford GTX1 during a few fun runs from 80 on the interstate. There is no "good spot" for a downshift. You stand on it and you move now because peak torque is held between 2k and 4k rpm. I couldn't tell you where it shifts because my eyes are glued to the road

[teflon_jones]

All Porsches (and most Mercedes & BMW) have a timeless design. Their shapes evolve slowly around a central theme where other automakers make radical changes seemingly on a whim. 10 years from now people will say it's a great looking car and most won't know what year it was made.

I needed to further revise this because your statement isn't quite true. The Porsche Cayenne is a pretty forgettable design. Very blah! (and the only reason I haven't bought one). The Panamera is ok from the front but pug fugly from the back. I guess you could still say it has a timeless design though: Timelessly ugly!

And "most" M-B don't have a timeless design either. The M, ML, MLK, GL, GLK, and R are pretty forgettable. Honestly most of the CL class are pretty forgettable too until the latest generation. I'd say only "some" have a timeless design in the last 10-15 years: The G, CLS, S, SL, and SLS. The older CL, CLK, C, and E all are pretty forgettable but the latest versions look pretty nice. Just my .02