From a dig ...
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 16

This is a discussion on From a dig ... within the Comparison: WRX vs World forums, part of the Community - Meet other Enthusiasts category; As I was reading over the previous thread about the 2011 Stage i WRX and the Camaro SS I came ...

  1. #1
    Wants to Sell His Honyota Civilander..Any Takers? BigDaddyRex's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Central NJ
    Posts
    781

    From a dig ...

    As I was reading over the previous thread about the 2011 Stage i WRX and the Camaro SS I came to the comment by patrick4588 "off the line.... wrx > camaro". It got me to thinking a bit about that.

    In theory AWD gives our cars a huge grip advantage off the line versus high horsepower cars driving only two wheels. As they may struggle to get the power to the ground we are already off the line and rolling. So I have read many a post reminding us of that advantage. But is the reality the same as the theory?

    If one was in a position where they knew they were about drag launch their car we would hold the revs at a high RPM and use our preferred technique for launching. In that case our cars do have a decided advantage as we can hook up the tires with the motor already in boost and jump out from a dig. Meanwhile, the RWD/FWD driver has to find a happy medium for power that gets them off the line without losing traction. So, I buy the theory in that situation.

    But ... in real world daily driving, or just casually running with someone from a red light, does the advantage still hold up? I find that unless the car is launched from higher RPMs it is very easy to have a pretty uninspiring start off the line. Granted the last car I drove was a '98 5.9 Grand Cherokee, an automatic with tons of torque and AWD. From a dig that thing leapt off the line and went hard (granted it ran out of steam around 60-70 and had no top end whatsoever). So for me, coming off the line in my car seems a lot less dramatic. Once it hits boost, however, the joy never stops - and I love the power. I do wonder if when I get around to installing the AP that I bought and go Stage I if some of this improves.

    Any thoughts or comments?
    - Chris
    2011 WRX DGM (The Fastest Color) 5DR
    Cobb AP Stage 2 93, Cobb DP, RAs, STS (the dream comes true ...)

  2. Remove Advertisements
    ClubWRX.net
    Advertisements
     

  3. #2
    Registered User lytlec's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Central PA
    Posts
    4,308
    Go install the AP...it might take like 10 minutes at most!
    <-------- Taylor Swift.
    2006 WRX 330whp. 300wtq. Slow.
    Hawk-Eye Alliance #137
    First Mods...what to do.
    Subaru Guide

  4. #3
    He simply abides. SD_GR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    CA, US
    Posts
    22,713
    I Support ClubWRX
    Quote Originally Posted by BigDaddyRex View Post
    But ... in real world daily driving, or just casually running with someone from a red light, does the advantage still hold up?
    No. When traction is not limited there is no inherent advantage to more traction.
    WRX Info Links, Courtesy TheJ
    Man is a brute.... If you're cruel to him, he respects and fears you. If you're kind to him, he plucks your eyes out. Alexis Zorbas
    I lied. I cheated. I bribed men to cover the crimes of other men. I am an accessory to murder. But the most damning thing of all... I think I can live with it. And if I had to do it all over again - I would. Benjamin Sisko
    DISCLAIMER: Opinions expressed are the author's alone and are inherently worthless.

  5. #4
    Registered User John M's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Milledgeville, GA
    Posts
    749
    Not launching also plays to the worst negative of having a turbo car -- lag. Even if a car doesn't have "much" lag (like twin turbo cars with useable boost at 2k rpm), it's still more lag than having none at all like a big cube v8.
    John M
    2000 Lincoln Continental - slow DD with the DOHC 4.6 and a Superchips tune
    1992 Lexus SC400 - slow resto project
    2005 Legacy GT Limited - SOLD Feb 2011 - Forged internals, FP HTA Green @ 22 psi.

  6. #5
    Registered User patrick4588's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    South GA
    Posts
    180
    I know, even on slicks; the fastest 60 i could cut in my teg was about a 1.7 or so. I had too light a flywheel, probably could have drop to a 1.6. But with these cars, a 1.3 on slicks is not out of the question i wouldnt think. Is it possible to setup anti lag? I dont see why it wouldnt be possible...

  7. #6
    Registered User John M's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Milledgeville, GA
    Posts
    749
    Launching an AWD car with slicks and anti-lag will help you find the car's next weakest link. When the tires don't spin, something has to give and that will probably be the axles. Buy stronger axles and the differential will let go. Strengthen it and the transmission is next. Whatever you beef up will cause the next item in the chain to break.

    You should be able to cut 1.7s without anything special and that's enough to handle nearly any street car off the line. Go for more and it gets expensive quickly.
    John M
    2000 Lincoln Continental - slow DD with the DOHC 4.6 and a Superchips tune
    1992 Lexus SC400 - slow resto project
    2005 Legacy GT Limited - SOLD Feb 2011 - Forged internals, FP HTA Green @ 22 psi.

  8. #7
    Registered User patrick4588's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    South GA
    Posts
    180
    Yep, i know how that goes. Dont even know how many transmissions, axles, and other components broke on my integra when i was racing it. Big reason i wont mod the subi much past stage 2 or race it.

  9. #8
    ClubWRX.net Vendor adam@kronosperformance's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Princeton, NJ
    Posts
    3,983
    I Support ClubWRX
    Quote Originally Posted by patrick4588 View Post
    Yep, i know how that goes. Dont even know how many transmissions, axles, and other components broke on my integra when i was racing it. Big reason i wont mod the subi much past stage 2 or race it.
    Well the other thing when it comes to your Integra is that its FWD...FWD vehicles experience massive wheel hop, torque steer and other issues when there is too much power going down for it to handle traction wise...on most FWD cars, axles are going to go with hard abuse, especially launching hard. Thats exactly why I gave up on FWD when my stock 260 HP car was a pain in the ass just to drive semi-hard on the street.
    ClubWRX.net's #1 Vendor! www.kronosperformance.com sales@kronosperformance.com Call/Text 732-742-8837 We Offer a Military Discount
    Our Facebook | Our Twitter | Our Instagram | Our Pinterest
    Our featured brands
    RALLY ARMOR | BC RACING | PERRIN | MISHIMOTO | GRIMMSPEED

  10. #9
    Registered User poly_poly-man's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Rochester Institvte of Technorcery
    Posts
    1,223
    Something's gotta give in a launch. Rwd usually makes it the tires. For awd, I usually recommend the clutch. Besides being nice on the driveline parts, you'll go faster - keeping the engine in the hi-power range, and adding load as you speed up.

    Pull the rpm up to 4 - 5 k, let out the clutch slowly enough that the engine stays up there - drop the throttle to the floor during that initial bite. By the time you're going the right speed for 5l, get off the clutch
    My big thread: The Used WRX Buying Checklist - Please Contribute!

    My current car: 2002 WRB WRX Wagon.
    Mods: GM BCS, Carberry SD rom, uppipe, AEM UEGO, Klunk Killer, F+R shifter bushings, head unit

  11. #10
    Registered User patrick4588's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    South GA
    Posts
    180
    Preloading the suspension puts a lot less stress on things too.

  12. #11
    Registered User 2004NeonSRT4's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Oxford,PA
    Posts
    1,068
    Quote Originally Posted by patrick4588 View Post
    Preloading the suspension puts a lot less stress on things too.
    Truth
    RayfieldsWRX - "You like the feel of torque steer? Interesting"
    jd92677 - "I like the idea of mashing the gas and not knowing which way the car will go."
    -02 WRX 13.8@96 stock SOLD
    -04 SRT-4 626whp SOLD.
    -04 STi 13.3@102 stock. SOLD
    -04 SRT4 388whp DD SOLD

  13. #12
    Registered User SamXp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Winston-Salem, NC
    Posts
    463
    Not sure what you're saying. If you're saying that low end torque is more beneficial in normal, every day starts. Yep. :shrug:

  14. #13
    OMG WTF MainFrame's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Texas, United States
    Posts
    8,277
    I Support ClubWRX I Support ClubWRX
    Quote Originally Posted by John M View Post
    Launching an AWD car with slicks and anti-lag will help you find the car's next weakest link. When the tires don't spin, something has to give and that will probably be the axles. Buy stronger axles and the differential will let go. Strengthen it and the transmission is next. Whatever you beef up will cause the next item in the chain to break.

    You should be able to cut 1.7s without anything special and that's enough to handle nearly any street car off the line. Go for more and it gets expensive quickly.

    That's why when and if you're going to drag race it's a good idea to upgrade your gears, differentials, axles, and hubs. If you're wanting to seriously drag race with an AWD car I would think that's common sense. Although a lot of people I know will just get cheap axles that come with a life time warranty, and they always take at least one extra and a tool box with them when they go to the track. That way if you go to hard the cheapest (free in this case) and easiest part to fix breaks first.

  15. #14
    Registered User John M's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Milledgeville, GA
    Posts
    749
    I've broken once at the track in 20 years of racing AWD cars, and that was a shift fork at the 1997 DSM Shootout. I'm simply not interested in wringing out another tenth in the 60ft in exchange for pieces of my car ending up on the track. I'm happy in the 1.75x range and my cars have been too.

    I also wont' flat-foot-shift for the same reason. I lift fully and shift quickly but not like I'm rowing a boat. This makes the syncros live a long life.
    John M
    2000 Lincoln Continental - slow DD with the DOHC 4.6 and a Superchips tune
    1992 Lexus SC400 - slow resto project
    2005 Legacy GT Limited - SOLD Feb 2011 - Forged internals, FP HTA Green @ 22 psi.

  16. #15
    ClubWRX.net Vendor adam@kronosperformance's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Princeton, NJ
    Posts
    3,983
    I Support ClubWRX
    Quote Originally Posted by John M View Post
    I've broken once at the track in 20 years of racing AWD cars, and that was a shift fork at the 1997 DSM Shootout. I'm simply not interested in wringing out another tenth in the 60ft in exchange for pieces of my car ending up on the track. I'm happy in the 1.75x range and my cars have been too.

    I also wont' flat-foot-shift for the same reason. I lift fully and shift quickly but not like I'm rowing a boat. This makes the syncros live a long life.
    Thats the way to do it
    ClubWRX.net's #1 Vendor! www.kronosperformance.com sales@kronosperformance.com Call/Text 732-742-8837 We Offer a Military Discount
    Our Facebook | Our Twitter | Our Instagram | Our Pinterest
    Our featured brands
    RALLY ARMOR | BC RACING | PERRIN | MISHIMOTO | GRIMMSPEED

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •