WRX v GTI v SI v MS3

[RayfieldsWRX]

Well excuse me if I'm being a jerk, but the way I see it is the only reason you're asking everyone else's opinion on which car you should buy is either
A: you have no opinion of your own, or
B: you're choosing a car based on what everyone else thinks.

A third possiblity...perhaps he simply wanted to fill in any gaps he has in his knowledge of the cars.
I recently decided to buy a welder...I read all of the marketing stuff online, specs, etc...but you'd better believe I spoke to some guys who weld professionally to get their opinions.

[jmj]

I also drove a GTI and honestly it was fun. Probably as much fun as the WRX, but I just don't care for the looks of it. Plus I couldn't find a low mile used one for a reasonable price and I've just never met a VW owner who said, "Man, I love how reliable my car is."

I was perusing this forum because I'm considering selling my MkV GTI and buying a WRX or STI (used) at some point in the to-be-determined future. I thought I would offer some observations about my ownership experience. I bought my GTI new in 06 (traded a 2004 Touareg in for it) and have about 135K miles on it now. It's paid for, so I'm not in a hurry to get rid of it right now.

I wouldn't claim it's the most reliable car ever, but it's been pretty good, although it certainly helps that I like to turn a wrench. Part of the reason for the unreliability (IMHO) is that many owners tend to modify them to within an inch of their lives. That's all well and good, especially if you track your car, but it tends to cut down on the reliability of a DD.

There was an issue with some of the early VIN motors eating through the cam follower which requires the replacement of the follower, hpfp and intake cam shaft (cost seems to be anywhere from $1500-$2000 at dealerships), but VW recently extended warranty coverage for it up to 120K miles, and only the engines in the first couple of model years are affected. Later cars came with a revised engine that has a roller cam in place of the tappet style follower. I discovered my follower, cam and hpfp were cooked after I was outside of the original warranty, at about 80K miles, and had to fight VW to cover half of the cost (I keep meticulous records, so they couldn't blame me for neglecting oil changes). They reimbursed me the other half when they extended the warranty, which was nice. I now check my follower every 10K, and they're about $50 to replace. Even with the dreaded banjo bolt on the fuel line (newer cars have a soft line with no banjo bolt) I can do it in well under half an hour. Also, because the engine is direct injection it tends to have a buildup of cooked on oil on the intake valves. You have too pull the intake manifold and clean them manually, which I haven't done yet. Or you can drop about $400 for an indy garage to clean them for you.

The car is a pleasure to drive, especially as a DD, although if I were to do it again I would get a 4 door instead of a 2 door. Adults have to contort a bit to get in the back seat, although there's decent room back there once they're in. I drive about 25K miles per year, so I've replaced the brakes and one drive shaft and both rear bearings. The other is being replaced soon also.

My car is almost entirely stock, and I've never flashed the chip, so I make stock HP/TQ numbers. On paper it's not so impressive (200/207), but it feels stronger than that from behind the wheel. I've almost never felt it lacked for power (and I generally drive like a bat out of hell), but I also don't track the car. It's just my DD. I'm also still on the stock suspension. The 06s have a higher ride height than the 07s and up, but I consider that a cosmetic issue, not a performance one. I could easily buy shorter springs for under $200 and lower it if I want to. Frankly, it seems like every MkV owner goes for the "slammed" look, so I feel somewhat different by bucking the trend. Plus I'm almost 47 years old, and I think I'd look slightly silly wearing a tie and driving around in a slammed DD. I also did not care much for the look of the car when I first bought it, but it has grown on me.

The interior of my GTI is very comfortable, and there isn't much in the way of hard plastics, which gives the car a "classier" feel. I specifically spec'd the cloth plaid seats (not available heated in my MY, but they were in later years). No question that VW interiors are nicer than their Subie counterparts, but that matters differently to different people. Personally, I can live with the downmarket interior without any problem. Somebody else doesn't like it; screw 'em.

My wife drives a 2010 Outback Sport, which is a pretty neat little car, IMO. My business partner has an 06 Legacy GT Spec B, bone stock, which is also a nice car. As some other have mentioned, the AWD is really nice in the snow. My wife's car, with snow tires, is an absolute tank in the winter. The GTI has never left me stranded either (I have a second set of winter rimes with snowies for both cars-can't stand getting stuck in the snow), but it clearly is not AWD. VW is selling a limited edition Golf R for 2012 which has AWD and extra HP/TQ, but it's priced in STI territory, and I don't think it offers as much performance in stock form, from what I've read about it.

A few years ago I bought a custom sub box with a 10 inch shallow mount subwoofer from a guy in the midwest somewhere who manufactures under the name "Uber Stealth". It replaces a piece of styrofoam under the rear hatch in the spare tire well and while it's not exactly a thumping, hip-hop chick magnet it adds decent low end to the stock stereo (10 speaker system). This is the fourth VW I've owned; the first was a '74 Super Beetle, I had a 97 Passat GLX (VR6 engine was pretty sweet) and the Touareg (incredible vehicle with scary expensive electronics that would have cost me a fortune out of warranty to repair/replace).

Anyway, that's just a little perspective from a current owner. YMMV.

[gastoys]

You left out a car - what about the Mitsubishi Evo Ralliart?

[Calvinball]

Calvinball's humble thoughts:

I currently drive an 04 Acura RSX Type S. While it certainly is not the same car as a current Civic SI, it has a lot in common. Chassis is a little different, the new engine has a bit more torque. My guess on the new engine is that it probably feels like a reflashed k20a. By that I mean there's enough torque to make you not curse in low rpms (like mine did before any modding), but I'm sure it still feels like a somewhat peppy ordinary 4 banger until 6000 rpms or so. Chassis I can't comment on, I feel that my RSX is a wonderful chassis and handles very well for FWD. There is a reason why I'm buying a WRX though...out of the box it offers much better power, and I mean that in both an excitement factor and in a liveable day-to-day way. A reflash, intake, and race exhaust later and my RSX was still just "quick."

My buddy has a 2010 GTI. Is it a nicer place to spend time? I personally think so. But I also don't think that the WRX is as terrible as some would say. I think his car handles very very well, and now that he's dropped a couple grand into it, it is pretty quick too. If I wanted upscale, then I would go for the GTI. However, I'm a guy who ordered a bone stock base WRX because while I enjoyed my moonroof, I don't need it. While butt heat would be nice, I've lived for many years without it. But I equate the GTI to the modern RSX. It is a more upscale car with great handling, but any chassis/suspension deficits the WRX may have in comparison are going to be made up by the AWD ability to put down power when the GTI can't. And to have to spend thousands to get that power up to respectable levels is not worth it to me.

So, the Mazdaspeed3. My fiance has relatives that work for a dealership group that does include Mazda, so I felt I had to go test drive one. Now, keep in mind, this is only based on a test drive, certainly not as much experience as the first two cars I mentioned. Acceleration was strong, I didn't really get to go balls to the wall but of course with that much power speed is not an issue. I didn't really get to test out the torque steer either. Handling...I think the speed3 probably has a great setup for autocross/track day/etc. It felt super tight, flat, you name it. Steering response was awesome. You pay the price though. The WRX feels like a car that can handle poor roads. The poor roads I drove over in the speed3 just felt like poor roads. I'm not that old yet (29) but I did not like it, just too harsh. Could I live with it? Sure. But I don't want to when I could get the WRX.

So, in the end, I decided on that very car. Seems to me to be the best blend. I got a hatchback for practicality. It's got the best acceleration from the factory, and a chassis that seems more than up to the task of burning up the beat-up old paved carriage paths up in the hills of northeastern PA (not to mention the beat-up new paved roads of Philly and surrounding areas.) Finally, I'm just tired of trying to route lots of power through the wheels that steer the car. My friend's GTI seems to do a decent job, opinions are mixed on the MS3, and the SI just doesn't have enough power to really worry about, so I am really looking forward to AWD.

Cliff Notes:
SI: The engine is just not really up to the task of being a sports car. It was fun to have a crazy rev-happy engine, but it gets old having to work so hard for not that much speed. Too much money to get it to respectable levels.

GTI: Not as much money to make faster, nice interior, handles quite well. But, still, a significant amount of money needed to really make it feel like a sports car rather than the upscale-inclined psuedo hot hatch it is.

MS3: Strong engine, great handling (but at a price). Torque steer nightmares unconfirmed from test drive.

WRX: My choice for performance out of the box, practicality, and just generally being well rounded.

[killpsibot]

i just ordered my 2012 wrx i went out and made a day of test driving i started with the ms3 it drove great ..but the clutch was horrible ......it just just bounced back at you other then that the car was nice...i then test drove the new gli and gti both handled great very lux the power was very nice....then to the wrx from the moment i got in it i loved it the clutch was perfect it wasnt as lux as the vw but it handled perfect and had the aggressive stance i wanted and was cheaper then the vw ...i went with the wrx i knew if i got the vw i would sick lots of money into just to make it as powerful as the wrx and still not have the awd ...hopefully this might help alittle but the bottom line just go test drive them all and that will make up your mind

[Moustafa]

To calvinball, jmj, and killpsibot.

I have read dozens and dozens of threads myself debating over getting a third GTi, or even the GLI. I had a 2003 gti 5 speed, and currently a 2008 gti with the DSG, and I'm patiently waiting on a base WRX. You guys provided awesome views that I could resonate in the same fashion to a sense but not so thoroughly. Most, and I mean MOST other forums are heavily biased in some fashion but not with your reviews.

And I know I will give up some comfort, classy materials, fuel economy, and it also treated me well in the Denver climate for 9 years, but I really just wanted something fresh and different and like you guys and others have said it is a well rounded vehicle at a nice price point. I'm 37 and felt my age somewhat driving the GTi even though it is fun and sporty with the DSG and reliable at least in our cases too. Just a change of pace and also to put a check mark next to another car that I wanted to have with the WRX coming next on the mound.

[Calvinball]

Glad I could help! I myself was in your same position not long ago, so it was easy to put my thoughts down. I'm now a couple weeks into WRX ownership, and just went for my first "spirited" drive this morning (thoughts to come later tonight in my show-off thread) and I have to say, I am extremely happy with the choice I made.

[killpsibot]

glade i could help out

[jcap287]

as an 2012 modded out mk6 gti 2 door owner i really like my i have about 7k on it no problems with it the ride is very audi-ish, handles like a dream, and i love the interior however i do regret not getting a wrx just bc of the 4 doors (yes i couldve gotten a 4 door gti but they dont look as good shouldve learned my lesson after my 03mc and 07 mcs (modded out)..the gtis main downfall is its underpowered for price point....definitely get the wrx! excuse my typos please i am on my phone

[Moustafa]

Thanks jcap. I have done just that and I have had my car for almost a month now. I'm attaching my older rides with the wrx base as well for the heck of it.