what's the point?

[BrianH]

no pay, no play.

[2.0Rs]

All of this because I told someone that was boohooing about streetracing that they shouldn't come in a section "WRX VS THE WORLD" if people hitting the accelerator bothers them? Surely you're not serious? I don't consider this my forum, but I do consider myself to be part of this community. Maybe you should look at it the same way.

We should close everything down across the forum, a difference in opinion on anything could lead to conflicts, someone's feelings being hurt or someone needing a hug.

And i'm not pro-streetracing, I'm anti this site turning into a NASIOC where a bunch of pompous hypocritical *******s cry to internet every time someone hits the gas in their car. Then this same group of clowns goes on cruises and usually comes back with one or two cars banged up or totaled from spinning out in the 'twisties' or from other vehicular asshattery. Maybe you could just call me concerned that someone may fall off their horse?

I don't claim to even know about this situation that took place but I also pointed this out in my post earlier. Some people (won't name names but always seems to be the same few) come into the threads and try to give the street racing is dangerous speech and it just goes down hill from there. Everyone knows the risk of racing. Going into a thread trying to provoke an argument is just as immature as street racing irresponsibly and is part of the problem with how these threads get some out of hand sometimes.

While I like to check out other sections and try to be helpful where I can I do enjoy coming in here sometimes and just reading stories or if I feel compelled enough comment. As enthusiasts and loving your car and the mods you have when you do come across a good race or beat a car that is respectable sometimes you'd like to share your story.Not all stories are a flame war just waiting to get out of control.

[devilfluff]

My position is:

Are we really still discussing this?

Street racing happens. Sometimes, it's organized. It is always illegal.

23109. (a) A person shall not engage in a motor vehicle speed contest on a highway. As used in this section, a motor vehicle speed contest includes a motor vehicle race against another vehicle, a clock, or other timing device. For purposes of this section, an event in which the time to cover a prescribed route of more than 20 miles is measured, but where the vehicle does not exceed the speed limits, is not a speed contest.

(b) A person shall not aid or abet in any motor vehicle speed contest on any highway.

(c) A person shall not engage in a motor vehicle exhibition of speed on a highway, and a person shall not aid or abet in a motor vehicle exhibition of speed on any highway.

(d) A person shall not for the purpose of facilitating or aiding or as an incident to any motor vehicle speed contest or exhibition upon a highway in any manner obstruct or place a barricade or obstruction or assist or participate in placing a barricade or obstruction upon any highway.

If you spontaneously test your driving mettle against another vehicle and have the ability to leave out the details, I'm ok with hearing the results.

If you plan and/or execute a "street race" using the club in any capacity, I would advocate an instantaneous ban for life.

Anything between is up for moderation. Whether moderation is editting out details, or complete deletion is a judgement call, and I trust the mods of this forum to make those decisions as necessary.

[mycologist]

All of this because I told someone that was boohooing about streetracing that they shouldn't come in a section "WRX VS THE WORLD" if people hitting the accelerator bothers them? Surely you're not serious? I don't consider this my forum, but I do consider myself to be part of this community. Maybe you should look at it the same way.

We should close everything down across the forum, a difference in opinion on anything could lead to conflicts, someone's feelings being hurt or someone needing a hug.

And i'm not pro-streetracing, I'm anti this site turning into a NASIOC where a bunch of pompous hypocritical *******s cry to internet every time someone hits the gas in their car. Then this same group of clowns goes on cruises and usually comes back with one or two cars banged up or totaled from spinning out in the 'twisties' or from other vehicular asshattery. Maybe you could just call me concerned that someone may fall off their horse?

If you read you will see that instance just led to the discussion in the mod forum that led here. Plus there was the disgruntled PMs you sent me when I was just doing my job enforcing the rules that I didn't put in place. Now I'm just going along with the consensus from the other mods and admins and what input the site owner provided. I did post all of your PMs in that discussion as you requested.

But go ahead and keep trying to pin this on me. My personal opinion at this point is that you are reading way too much into things and taking this way too seriously. OMG, he closed a thread - now we're NASIOC????

No one said we were closing ALL "stories".

I am leaning much more toward supporting the closure of this forum however because of this conversation. The other posters are much more persuasive against that.

[SD_GR]

Some people (won't name names but always seems to be the same few) come into the threads and try to give the street racing is dangerous speech

The one involving truth, law and reason?

and it just goes down hill from there.

Is that the point where it goes downhill? Before then, with the street racing alone, it was all OK?

Everyone knows the risk of racing.

Worse still, everyone seems to have to accept the risk of street racing, whether they like it or not, whether they chose to participate or not.

Going into a thread trying to provoke an argument is just as immature as street racing irresponsibly

Explain to me slowly (so I can understand...) how exactly entering a thread that discusses illegal and/or dangerous driving on public roads -- having experienced losses, incidentally, and I don't mean cars -- is immature on my part, since with my limited understanding of the situation, I'd perhaps wrongly thought that it's the guys breaking the law, endangering themselves, others, or the property of others (including the commons) that were immature?

Also, how exactly is criticizing behaviour that is at best illegal comparable to actually engaging in that behaviour?

So, taking your position, if I get into a futile argument on the site, having overestimated either my own skills in debating or in reading comprehension (since I apparently have misjudged the scope of the forum and the rules), that makes me comparable to someone that is on here posting about how (s)he has overestimated their own driving skills, misunderstood or ignored the potential consequences of their actions, and is speeding against other cars on public roads?

Really? Those two are comparable?

My arguments are typically "it's illegal and irresponsible; you are in over your head, and even if you're not, the commons are not your personal track and others are not obligated to deal with your poor choices." The countering arguments are typically "it's in a safe area, I am a much better driver than Stirling Moss, we all do it safely" and so on. I'm being immature?

Not all stories are a flame war just waiting to get out of control.

I agree with this statement.

[John M]

I thought I should also point out I joined this site specifically because of this section. There was a pretty good discussion going on about these & other cars and I decided to participate. I didn't own a Subaru until 2 years later, and it was this site that convinced me to lay down $30k on a platform I'd never considered before.

I still post almost exclusively in this section, and it must be working ok 'cause I've been here a loooong time. I pre-date everybody in this thread except Ray & SD!

[BrianH]

I'm still trying to figure out what's changed here in a forum which has operated pretty much just fine over the past 9 years to suddenly make it a huge problem. Actually, i'm not. It's the new moderation of it and how they choose to enforce it.

I don't need to pin this on you, you're doing it on your own. Those before you enforced the rules and we got along just fine for a long time without ANY issues.

If you read you will see that instance just led to the discussion in the mod forum that led here. Plus there was the disgruntled PMs you sent me when I was just doing my job enforcing the rules that I didn't put in place. Now I'm just going along with the consensus from the other mods and admins and what input the site owner provided. I did post all of your PMs in that discussion as you requested.

But go ahead and keep trying to pin this on me. My personal opinion at this point is that you are reading way too much into things and taking this way too seriously. OMG, he closed a thread - now we're NASIOC????

No one said we were closing ALL "stories".

I am leaning much more toward supporting the closure of this forum however because of this conversation. The other posters are much more persuasive against that.

Forget what the community thinks, someone's not agreeing with me and I'm the ultimate authority. SMASH *thump*thump* that'll teach em. Did you say that out loud while chanting *I Have the power*? What a joke.

[Trainrex]

I'm still trying to figure out what's changed here in a forum which has operated pretty much just fine over the past 9 years to suddenly make it a huge problem. Actually, i'm not. It's the new moderation of it and how they choose to enforce it.

I don't need to pin this on you, you're doing it on your own. Those before you enforced the rules and we got along just fine for a long time without ANY issues.





Forget what the community thinks, someone's not agreeing with me and I'm the ultimate authority. SMASH *thump*thump* that'll teach em. Did you say that out loud while chanting *I Have the power*? What a joke.

Actually, not much has changed. This subforum has been viewed as a problem by the moderators almost since the forum's inception. I can't even count the amount of discussions we've had about it during my tenure as head Nazi.


While I know you feel strongly about this Brian, and you feel he is beating his fists on his chest, you look like you're face down on the floor beating your fists and kicking your legs.


I doubt this subforum is going anywhere, but plan on continued moderation of illegal activities. If someone posted in OT that he was setting up a rape session for this weekend, or he was out shooting his gun into crowded places the night before I doubt you would remain quiet. Some of us, yours truly included, actually don't take the risks that are being posted here. That's the excuse most of the posters here use. "Everyone does it". Sorry, no, we all don't. I remember not too long ago there was a thread where the kid was bragging about hitting ungodly speeds on a particular highway the night before. Well, I was on that particular highway that night with my loved ones in the car. Yes, it pisses me off that he will risk my life to satisfy his testicles. It even pissed me off more that he has to brag about it and get approval. I guess we feel that if these young kids don't get the approval they are yearning for, perhaps they will be less likely to risk innocent people. Will it stop? Hell no. Maybe it will slow down a bit though.

[BrianH]

Actually, not much has changed. This subforum has been viewed as a problem by the moderators almost since the forum's inception. I can't even count the amount of discussions we've had about it during my tenure as head Nazi.

How much of a problem as nothing's been done up to this point?
My guess is not much.

While I know you feel strongly about this Brian, and you feel he is beating his fists on his chest, you look like you're face down on the floor beating your fists and kicking your legs.

I really don't care what I look like, I'm someone that's been part of a community for a long time, a community I like and actually care about and I'm not going to sit silent as it turns into a bunch of cry on acceleration douches.

I doubt this subforum is going anywhere, but plan on continued moderation of illegal activities. If someone posted in OT that he was setting up a rape session for this weekend, or he was out shooting his gun into crowded places the night before I doubt you would remain quiet. Some of us, yours truly included, actually don't take the risks that are being posted here. That's the excuse most of the posters here use. "Everyone does it". Sorry, no, we all don't. I remember not too long ago there was a thread where the kid was bragging about hitting ungodly speeds on a particular highway the night before. Well, I was on that particular highway that night with my loved ones in the car. Yes, it pisses me off that he will risk my life to satisfy his testicles. It even pissed me off more that he has to brag about it and get approval. I guess we feel that if these young kids don't get the approval they are yearning for, perhaps they will be less likely to risk innocent people. Will it stop? Hell no. Maybe it will slow down a bit though.

I look forward to seeing emissions laws enforced here.

[TheJ]

1) I personally don't think this forum is likely going anywhere anytime soon and I don't personally want it to go.

2) Yes, I think there are lines that should not be crossed. I think most of us can agree on that.

3) I believe it is disingenuous to compare street racing to cat less up pipes though... Catless up pipes are what I would classify as more of a code infraction. Actually racing and hitting super high speeds are actions that are more likely to lead to vehicular manslaughter charges. So using the "well it's all illegal so you're being a hypocrite" argument don't really hold up so well.

4) I think the bottom line is; unless we DO became just like nasioc then a lot of this is always going to have to be left up to the judgement of the moderators on a case by case basis. The thing is, everyone isn't always going to agree with these judgments.

5) Contrary to what some may like to believe, there is very little "chest thumping" among the moderators and far more of just people who actually care about our community and honestly just want to protect it and make it better where that's possible. I honestly believe that every single one of the active moderators just want to do the right thing. They take their responsibility seriously because they actually care about our Club.

[SD_GR]

4) I think the bottom line is; unless we DO became just like nasioc then a lot of this is always going to have to be left up to the judgement of the moderators on a case by case basis. The thing is, everyone isn't always going to agree with these judgments.

5) Contrary to what some may like to believe, there is very little "chest thumping" among the moderators and far more of just people who actually care about our community and honestly just want to protect it and make it better where that's possible. I honestly believe that every single one of the active moderators just want to do the right thing. They take their responsibility seriously because they actually care about our Club.

I have to agree with this. In fact I'll readily admit I've often second-guessed myself when mod'ing a thread -- am I doing the right thing, am I losing the plot, what to do etc. I don't think anyone is heavy handed or even headstrong, and I know it's not easy to mod sometimes.

[BrianH]

3) I believe it is disingenuous to compare street racing to cat less up pipes though... Catless up pipes are what I would classify as more of a code infraction. Actually racing and hitting super high speeds are actions that are more likely to lead to vehicular manslaughter charges. So using the "well it's all illegal so you're being a hypocrite" argument don't really hold up so well.

If we're going to play the 'legal' card here, I would expect that equal enforcement and not selective enforcement will occur. Think of the kids with asthma.

5) Contrary to what some may like to believe, there is very little "chest thumping" among the moderators and far more of just people who actually care about our community and honestly just want to protect it and make it better where that's possible. I honestly believe that every single one of the active moderators just want to do the right thing. They take their responsibility seriously because they actually care about our Club.

That was nice to say, maybe the praise will even things out more and keep this section from being closed.

[SD_GR]

Think of the kids with asthma.

I've got some ephedrine in me as we speak (but no asthma; I just use the pills).

[TheJ]

I look forward to seeing emissions laws enforced here.

So are you saying we should allow discussion of ANY illegal activity because people discuss catless up pipes? Or are you simply saying the fact that street racing is illegal is insufficient reason to not allow it? Do think there should be absolutely no restriction on the discussion of street racing? If not, where would 'you' draw the line?

[BrianH]

So are you saying we should allow discussion of ANY illegal activity because people discuss catless up pipes? Or are you simply saying the fact that street racing is illegal is insufficient reason to not allow it? Do think there should be absolutely no restriction on the discussion of street racing? If not, where would 'you' draw the line?

I'm just saying that if you're going to make a rule that equal enforcement of it should be applied. Don't say you're going to watch for activity against the law and then choose to only see what you dislike.