Should my 04 WRX be able to stay with a Vette? - Page 2
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This is a discussion on Should my 04 WRX be able to stay with a Vette? within the Comparison: WRX vs World forums, part of the Community - Meet other Enthusiasts category; You're factoring in traction, speeds exiting the corner and driving. . There's a lot fewer variables in your case. This ...

  1. #16
    Boba Fett BrianH's Avatar
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    You're factoring in traction, speeds exiting the corner and driving. . There's a lot fewer variables in your case. This is a raw power situation and you don't have it. . . Unless your car clocked in at 1800lbs with teh same power, something doesn't add up.


    Quote Originally Posted by kempobmx1 View Post
    I'm not disputing what you're saying overall. I'm surprised I kept up with it. However I think we all ought to know that it's not all about straight hp. For any TopGear fans, you may have seen when they used a stock EVO VIII to keep up with a Murcielago around a track. The EVO's 300hp held up against the Murcielago's 570, both in a straight line and in the curves. It's not all hp, it's how the car makes use of that hp.

    Another example, using cars that we might think of as normally being a little more even on the playing field (seeing as they were within two seconds of each other on the Nurburgring). The Nissan GTR makes 480bhp to the Vette ZR1's 635. Yet the GTR will do 0-60 in 3.2 to the ZR1's 3.3. I can attest to this as I've done 0-60 in a GTR in 3.3 (different road conditions might have yielded the 3.2).

    The number of horses a car has is no solid indication of it's ability in a drag race against another car.

    That being said, I'd like to reiterate my point that I'm not disputing your overall standpoint that I shouldn't have been able to win. I'm just saying that hp isn't the deciding factor.

    I will cite more examples if needed.

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  3. #17
    Administrator RayfieldsWRX's Avatar
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  4. #18
    Boba Fett BrianH's Avatar
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    Erm, sorry i wasn't trying to come off as a combative ****, as most of you know when I try to do that I'm much more clear. As someone that's owned both(granted a newer vette) and raced quite a bit in both, this just doesn't seem likely to have happened without a big drive difference, ok huge. .


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  5. #19
    Administrator RayfieldsWRX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrianH View Post
    Erm, sorry i wasn't trying to come off as a combative ****, as most of you know when I try to do that I'm much more clear.
    You're not being combative at all, Brian, and this thread has been pretty friendly. I just kinda ran out of stuff to say.

    We both know the reality here.
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  6. #20
    Registered User 2004NeonSRT4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kempobmx1 View Post
    I'm not disputing what you're saying overall. I'm surprised I kept up with it. However I think we all ought to know that it's not all about straight hp. For any TopGear fans, you may have seen when they used a stock EVO VIII to keep up with a Murcielago around a track. The EVO's 300hp held up against the Murcielago's 570, both in a straight line and in the curves. It's not all hp, it's how the car makes use of that hp.

    Another example, using cars that we might think of as normally being a little more even on the playing field (seeing as they were within two seconds of each other on the Nurburgring). The Nissan GTR makes 480bhp to the Vette ZR1's 635. Yet the GTR will do 0-60 in 3.2 to the ZR1's 3.3. I can attest to this as I've done 0-60 in a GTR in 3.3 (different road conditions might have yielded the 3.2).


    I will cite more examples if needed.
    the top gear episode you speak of they used a fq430 evo 8. not the standard 300. so that's a bust on that.

    if you only race to 60 its a good race gtr vs zr1 anything after that its a sad day for the gtr. it does however go very well around corners making up for its lack of hp.

    ok done mag racing.
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  7. #21
    Registered User Colossus's Avatar
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    I'm glad someone pointed out the Evo not being the 300 hp model. And interstate racing is ALL power to weight ratio's. Vette has it. Also to suggest the Corvette has shorter gears than you is . You will have to shift more often than him. The ZR1 also outperforms the GT-R EVERYWHERE. Two seconds is a long ass time on the 'Ring. I annihilated a WRX in my 1994 Camaro with gears. Bad. For comparison my friend's 03 Vette raped me. Bad. No dinner. No movie. No flowers. I didn't even get lube. I'm not saying this didn't happen, but don't think your going to run around beating Vette's. Your ego will take a beating if you do.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Giggles View Post
    First of all, I'm not surprised you kept up. Your car makes up for its power disadvantage with several things. One is AWD. Your power is going to all four wheels, reducing the power lost to wheelspin to an absolute minimum. The Vette is RWD, meaning overdoing the gas can cause wheelspin (and thereby wasting power and time) with as much torque as that car has. Another thing is your turbo. Your engine performs best at high RPM (when the turbo kicks in), with a late-spiking power curve. The power curve on most naturally aspirated V8 engines, like the Corvette's, starts off high and drops off quickly past a certain point. This is why you can burn out so easily in that sort of car. Since your car performs best at high speed, the power outputs of the two cars may have been near equal at the speed you were traveling. There are other things like suspension, remaining tire tread, etc. that could have given you an advantage but those two are the big ones.
    Wow, just about everything you said is dead wrong. In this type of race (straight line race from a 75mph roll), AWD only slows you down. Secondly, stock WRX turbos don't make power up top. That's why people opt for bigger turbos. Vettes on the other hand have flat TQ curves, which mean HP keeps rising with RPMs.
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  9. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by kempobmx1 View Post
    I'm not disputing what you're saying overall. I'm surprised I kept up with it. However I think we all ought to know that it's not all about straight hp. For any TopGear fans, you may have seen when they used a stock EVO VIII to keep up with a Murcielago around a track. The EVO's 300hp held up against the Murcielago's 570, both in a straight line and in the curves. It's not all hp, it's how the car makes use of that hp.

    Another example, using cars that we might think of as normally being a little more even on the playing field (seeing as they were within two seconds of each other on the Nurburgring). The Nissan GTR makes 480bhp to the Vette ZR1's 635. Yet the GTR will do 0-60 in 3.2 to the ZR1's 3.3. I can attest to this as I've done 0-60 in a GTR in 3.3 (different road conditions might have yielded the 3.2).

    The number of horses a car has is no solid indication of it's ability in a drag race against another car.

    That being said, I'd like to reiterate my point that I'm not disputing your overall standpoint that I shouldn't have been able to win. I'm just saying that hp isn't the deciding factor.

    I will cite more examples if needed.
    I don't see how any of this applies....A straight line race from a 75 mph roll is all about horsepower and weight.

    My guess is that the guy is not a very good driver and was racing you in 5th or 6th gear.

  10. #24
    Registered User Colossus's Avatar
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    Wow, I have an echo, lol!
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  11. #25
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    The advantage the WRX has over a vette is solely off the line. Launching a Vette takes A LOT of skill not to light the tires up and loose time. Things were so tough, they had to add the new launch control mode to help old foggies to get off the line

    On a highway roll, a WRX clearly has a disadvantage as others have said. If you look at 1/4 mile times for the WRX, they're generally lower than expected ET's that one would expect for their trap time. And this obviously has to do with hard AWD launches and loosing power up top.

    My Vette (albeit a C6 Z51) has a monster 3rd and 4th gear. 75-150 goes by unnaturally fast. Power/weight/aerodynamics (which the vette optimizes) truly come into play at higher speeds. If I had the 4.10 gears, it would be even quicker. I need to snap a vid, but there are numerous ones on youtube to compare your WRX to to get an idea.
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  12. #26
    Moderator T0rque's Avatar
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    The only possible way is that it is a pre 02 C5 With an auto, and the driver really wasnt racing and ended up just being nice and waving in the end.

    I dont want to come off rude but Im sorry there is just no way a stock WRX can keep up with a vette frumaroll. Granted mine was a Z06 But I doubt my stage 2 07 STi LTD could match it on the freeway.


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  13. #27
    Registered User John M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kempobmx1 View Post
    As for all this fuss about 1/4 mile trap speeds and such, it doesn't apply directly when the race starts at 75mph.
    Absolutely it does! Quarter mile traps are about all we've got when forecasting how two cars will do from a roll. It removes traction from the equation and looks at how hard the car is accelerating at the end of the quarter. In fact, an even more reliable method is to look at the difference between the 1/8th and 1/4 mile traps to see the rate of top end acceleration. It'd be less of a predictor for something like a 100 to 150 run because of how gearing and aerodynamics take over at those speeds.

    Starting at 75 is 100% in the Vette's territory. The one thing the LS1 is known for is top end power -- exactly what the stock WRX lacks. I'd say a stock bugeye would have trouble with my mother's Hyundai Azera from say 70-110. I'm not badmouthing the WRX; I've just raced a lot of different vehicles in the past 20 years.

    I hope to have fun with some C6's when I get my Legacy back. I'm shooting for ~ 400whp so it should be capable of surprising a lot of cars. My brother drives a CL65 AMG and most people have no clue that it's packing 605hp and 740 ft/lbs of torque in bone stock trim. He had a singled Supra before that and I've had a stack of DSMs and a pair of Stealth TT's. I speak from experience!
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  14. #28
    Registered User cjm1991's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John M View Post
    Absolutely it does! Quarter mile traps are about all we've got when forecasting how two cars will do from a roll. It removes traction from the equation and looks at how hard the car is accelerating at the end of the quarter. In fact, an even more reliable method is to look at the difference between the 1/8th and 1/4 mile traps to see the rate of top end acceleration. It'd be less of a predictor for something like a 100 to 150 run because of how gearing and aerodynamics take over at those speeds.

    Starting at 75 is 100% in the Vette's territory. The one thing the LS1 is known for is top end power -- exactly what the stock WRX lacks. I'd say a stock bugeye would have trouble with my mother's Hyundai Azera from say 70-110. I'm not badmouthing the WRX; I've just raced a lot of different vehicles in the past 20 years.

    I hope to have fun with some C6's when I get my Legacy back. I'm shooting for ~ 400whp so it should be capable of surprising a lot of cars. My brother drives a CL65 AMG and most people have no clue that it's packing 605hp and 740 ft/lbs of torque in bone stock trim. He had a singled Supra before that and I've had a stack of DSMs and a pair of Stealth TT's. I speak from experience!
    Bet that supra was a blast.
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  15. #29
    Administrator RayfieldsWRX's Avatar
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    Looks like you can buy a 2002-2003'ish Vette around here with decent miles for just a shade over $20K. Sounds like a lot of performance for the money.
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  16. #30
    Moderator T0rque's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RayfieldsWRX View Post
    Looks like you can buy a 2002-2003'ish Vette around here with decent miles for just a shade over $20K. Sounds like a lot of performance for the money.
    Just sold the 04 Z06 for 24995


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