wrx and new muscle cars - Page 2
+ Reply to Thread
Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 73

This is a discussion on wrx and new muscle cars within the Comparison: WRX vs World forums, part of the Community - Meet other Enthusiasts category; Originally Posted by Poohbear The GTO has a nice motor but is built on an Australian road car chassis (the ...

  1. #16
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Tucson
    Posts
    7
    Quote Originally Posted by Poohbear View Post
    The GTO has a nice motor but is built on an Australian road car chassis (the Holden Monaro i think?). This means that the suspension is sluggish, slow, and the car just feels heavy.
    Pontiac didnt step up.

    Dont use an Australian car to build from.

    Now price for price you can get a USED gto for just under what you can get a NEW 09 wrx for. Plus now you get 4 doors and AWD, better handling IMHO a much better looking car.
    Don't slag on the Aussies.........they know cars and racing. Look at the V8 Supercar series, of which the Holden Commodore is the current champ. It is imported to the U.S. as a Pontiac (which you also slag) G8 GXP. Which will beat a WRX in any contest of speed.

  2. Remove Advertisements
    ClubWRX.net
    Advertisements
     

  3. #17
    Registered User Poohbear's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    943
    Quote Originally Posted by jbak View Post
    Don't slag on the Aussies.........they know cars and racing. Look at the V8 Supercar series, of which the Holden Commodore is the current champ. It is imported to the U.S. as a Pontiac (which you also slag) G8 GXP. Which will beat a WRX in any contest of speed.
    Ok

    1) you missed my point. They made american muscle out of a foreign car. They should have made it its own car instead of building on an existing platform. Not saying Australia has bad cars but read it how you want.

    2) the GTO is only running a 13.8 1/4 with a 5.3 0-60 that makes it slower then 09+ so no your not correct. Strait line 09+ will beat the GTO but it will be a good race. Toss in one or 2 turns and blam no contest. So no you are wrong it wont beat any wrx in "speed". Maybe top speed but Im not sure what your talking about when you just say "speed".

    3) not saying its a bad car, just saying its bad American muscle. The car is slow for having what 361 HP? In know G8 GXP got 402 but not sure about the GT or v-6 base. Its sluggish and slower then it should be in corners. This is chalked up to its heavy suspension like I mentioned earlier.

    4) Either way if your going to buy muscle money can be better spent in somehting other then the GTO or G8. IMHO

    EDIT > money better spent on say a camaro SS with a 68 mph Solomon course and a 5.0 0-60 and a 13.1 1/4. Faster then your G8 and looks a million times better. After all the camaro is more its own car then the pontiac GTO...
    Last edited by Poohbear; 01-26-2010 at 04:19 PM.
    Your vehicle is an extension of your skill as a driver, not a substitute for it.

    Stink-Eye Mob Member #21
    08+ Gauge install DIY
    Turn off your seat belt chime

  4. #18
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Tucson
    Posts
    7
    Camaro is same platform as G8...Zeta. Platform has got pretty much universal good reviews.

    Camaro is _barely_ faster than G8 GXP, and then only in M6 spec. (Camaro A6 = 400 hp, M6 = 425, G8 GXP is 415 in either M6 or A6)

    Camaro only has two doors, G8 has 4, is like a small limo inside, very practical and useful in that regard.

  5. #19
    Registered User sccoby823's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    New Bedford, Ma
    Posts
    341
    i'm 6'4" i sat in a camaro ss at an autoshow last weekend. i put the seat all the way back, and could barely let the friggin clutch out without hitting the steering wheel with my knee, oh also the back of the seat was about 4 inches from the backseat, oh and the interior -1 on the camaro.. i was not a fan at all.and when i was looking at cars i sat in a G8 and i had more room than anything. which i was suprised when i bought the rex that i had so much room in it and still room in the backseat
    ***Stink Eye Mob 169***
    Stage 2 WRX Tuned by Brendan at Brentuning
    296 awhp
    317 awtq

  6. #20
    Registered User 2004NeonSRT4's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Oxford,PA
    Posts
    1,068
    just some mag racing number for ya. cause the ones listed are way off.

    05 Pontiac GTO
    Front engine, RWD
    90 V-8 alum block/heads
    2 valves/cyl
    364.1 cu in / 5967 cc
    10.9:1 compression
    400 hp @ 5200 rpm
    400 lb-ft @ 4000 rpm
    9.4 lb/hp
    6-speed manual
    semi-trailing arms, coil springs, anti-roll bar
    Steering Ratio 11.8:1-17.2:1
    11.7-in vented disc; 11.3-in vented disc, ABS
    60-0 128ft
    Curb weight 3777 lb
    Weight distribution 54 / 46 %
    0-60 4.7
    Quarter Mile 13.3 sec @ 105.9 mph
    Braking, 60-0 mph 124 ft
    600-Ft Slalom 62.4 mph avg
    .83 g avg skid pad with all season tires
    Epa City/Hwy Econ 17 / 25 mpg

    pulled from motor trend.

    pedders gto, off the shelf parts and sticky re11's .97 skid pad
    Pontiac GTO Skid Pad Testing - Pedders USA Forums

    drag times.com
    Pontiac GTO 1/4 Mile Drag Racing Timeslips - DragTimes.com

    i've bin thinking about getting a gto for awhile so i've researched pricing for 05's and 06s pricing range from 14 to 18k. way less than any 09 wrx.

    if your gonna bash a car please have solid info. the 05+ is one of the most over looked sports cars out there. it's a great place to start a rwd muscle car build up. the 05+ gto is on par in stock form or better than a stock 09 wrx.
    Last edited by 2004NeonSRT4; 01-26-2010 at 05:34 PM.
    RayfieldsWRX - "You like the feel of torque steer? Interesting"
    jd92677 - "I like the idea of mashing the gas and not knowing which way the car will go."
    -02 WRX 13.8@96 stock SOLD
    -04 SRT-4 626whp SOLD.
    -04 STi 13.3@102 stock. SOLD
    -04 SRT4 388whp DD SOLD

  7. #21
    Boba Fett BrianH's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Way up high.
    Posts
    17,939
    That quarter mile time seems a bit off for even a poor driver in a GTO.

  8. #22
    Registered User Poohbear's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    943
    Well those are the numbers edmunds had the car listed at. If one were to read my post I did say that perhaps pontiac fixed the issues with the older GTO's before they went belly up, but it was to late.

    So its no surprise that newer GTO's have more power. And they are most likely over looked due to the fact that they had those slow numbers in the beginning.
    Your vehicle is an extension of your skill as a driver, not a substitute for it.

    Stink-Eye Mob Member #21
    08+ Gauge install DIY
    Turn off your seat belt chime

  9. #23
    Boba Fett BrianH's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Way up high.
    Posts
    17,939
    Quote Originally Posted by Poohbear View Post
    Well those are the numbers edmunds had the car listed at. If one were to read my post I did say that perhaps pontiac fixed the issues with the older GTO's before they went belly up, but it was to late.

    So its no surprise that newer GTO's have more power. And they are most likely over looked due to the fact that they had those slow numbers in the beginning.
    Seems like it was more of a driver issue than a build issue. Maybe they ran those times on an ice track.

  10. #24
    He simply abides. SD_GR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    CA, US
    Posts
    22,981
    I Support ClubWRX
    Admittedly I'm not one to let logic and numbers affect my tastes in cars, but my main criticism of the AU-source GTO is actually the styling. I initially thought "this looks modern and attractive in a nondescript, non-kitsch, no gaudy way." I was right, but I was wrong to think that's a positive thing.

    I don't care about large US V8 motors that make one million HP and one million Nm torque (expressed as ft lbs or something like that instead...). I take it for granted that a car like that has a large US V8.

    What I like about the "American muscle" thing is the LARGE AND IN CHARGE presence, and the GTO simply lacks that. Instead of adding power they needed to add sheetmetal. All the rest -- handling, braking, steering, performance numbers -- are secondary details. Always have been. Show me acres of sheetmetal.

    OK, so that leaves the new, rehashed batch from GM, Ford, and Chrysler. The Chrysler has the edge in presence IMO, it's just physically larger and looks less aero than anything else (both a definite plus). Also, it may be the sloppiest on the road, another plus for the category IMO (funny how things are all relative!). Assuming one wants something modern with a retro skin instead of something built today with retro reflexes and skin, that leaves either the Ford or the GM. I like the Mustang's looks most of those two I think, but the rear end puts me off -- just on the Ford for some reason, I don't even care if the other two have IRS or are set up like ancient donkey carts. Long story short, for me it's between the V6 (not a typo V-six) versions of the Ford or the Chevrolet vs. the Impreza.
    Last edited by SD_GR; 01-27-2010 at 08:55 AM.
    WRX Info Links, Courtesy TheJ
    Man is a brute.... If you're cruel to him, he respects and fears you. If you're kind to him, he plucks your eyes out. Alexis Zorbas
    I lied. I cheated. I bribed men to cover the crimes of other men. I am an accessory to murder. But the most damning thing of all... I think I can live with it. And if I had to do it all over again - I would. Benjamin Sisko
    DISCLAIMER: Opinions expressed are the author's alone and are inherently worthless.

  11. #25
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Tucson
    Posts
    7
    Quote Originally Posted by SD_GR View Post
    Admittedly I'm not one to let logic and numbers affect my tastes in cars, but my main criticism of the AU-source GTO is actually the styling. I initially thought "this looks modern and attractive in a nondescript, non-kitsch, no gaudy way." I was right, but I was wrong to think that's a positive thing.
    Well, that's why they didn't sell I guess. I think the 6.0 liter GTO looks great, plus it's a bit of a sleeper. I like sleepers, another reason the G8 (espec GXP) appeals to me.

    New Camaro shouts "give me a ticket !". Not my deal.

  12. #26
    Registered User Pavia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Philly/DE area
    Posts
    2,934
    Quote Originally Posted by jbak View Post
    Well, that's why they didn't sell I guess. I think the 6.0 liter GTO looks great, plus it's a bit of a sleeper. I like sleepers, another reason the G8 (espec GXP) appeals to me.

    New Camaro shouts "give me a ticket !". Not my deal.
    They were only allowed to bring a (comparatively) small number of cars into the US, due to agreements with the union on importing complete cars (and the fact that production capacity at the Holden plant was limited to 18,000 cars). And they sold most of those... The GTO was shelved because Pontiac didn't want to update the platform to meet new US safety requirements (when the Zeta platform was already in the works). Not because of sales.

    I do agree that the marketing spent on the GTO was scant, at best.

    I admit I wasn't sold on the looks at first, but I figured why not take a test drive. And it blew me away. And I now like the looks. Retro isn't always a good thing. IMHO, the new Challenger just looks...off...somehow (maybe it's the giant wheels, idk).

    But what makes a GTO is not looks. The concept John Delorean snuck past the GM execs in '64 was a big motor in a midsize car that could tearup the stoplight wars. The 04-06 GTO fits that to a tee, except it can handle, brake, and drive far better and faster than the '71 GTO (455 HO engine) I had when I was younger. And the GTO does handle very well. Better than my WRX, when the Subaru was stock (not anymore though...)

    And, yes, you can't go strictly by magazine numbers, either...

    I can also agree that the Aussies make one hell of a car. Fit and finish is superb and I haven't had a single problem with it (knock on wood).

    I suppose, for the price of a new WRX, you could buy a used GTO, go with a 150shot or Maggie, upgrade the suspension with Pedders, and beat 99% of the street cars your likely to meet up with and still keep a corner.

    But I like both Subarus and GTOs... that's why I bought both.
    Last edited by Pavia; 01-28-2010 at 10:32 AM.
    06 GTO M6 Quicksilver, SLP 455 Bobcat, LS7 Clutch w/ SS line (RPM tune:373rwhp/373rwtq)
    07 WRX TR M5 Garnet Red Pearl w/ Straight PPGs and Cusco front LSD (Agile tune:307whp/343wtq)

  13. #27
    Registered User Pavia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Philly/DE area
    Posts
    2,934
    Here's a pretty good link of various GTO 1/8 and 1/4 mile times listed in a lot of different categories (From OEM to full-on track engine rebuilds):

    LS1GTO.com Forums - GTO's 04-06 ...."Fastest" 1/8 and 1/4 Mile ETs

    Let me know if you can't access the link. I can get some of the lists.

    Example:
    Fastest 1/4 Mile ETs: by "Class" Codes
    oem (10)/Bolt-On (11) Class.....Unopened Eng/No Power Adders/Race Tires OK
    LS1/LS2 Record=11.600 11/14/2009 Darlington
    LS1: 11.752 Element .. 11.983 LS1 Melissa .. 12.044 regblkgto
    M6.: 12.738 nutiger*
    LS2: 11.600 05 RedTomcat .. 11.907 Bluhaven(Mrs) .. 11.909 Flashover
    M6.: 11.955 Speedshifter
    Last edited by Pavia; 01-27-2010 at 09:19 PM.
    06 GTO M6 Quicksilver, SLP 455 Bobcat, LS7 Clutch w/ SS line (RPM tune:373rwhp/373rwtq)
    07 WRX TR M5 Garnet Red Pearl w/ Straight PPGs and Cusco front LSD (Agile tune:307whp/343wtq)

  14. #28
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    San Francisco
    Posts
    24
    Quote Originally Posted by Poohbear View Post
    The GTO has a nice motor but is built on an Australian road car chassis (the Holden Monaro i think?). This means that the suspension is sluggish, slow, and the car just feels heavy. (with cast iron a-arms from what i hear). THe Holden itself is pretty quick just like the GTO. just doesn't mesh well with the motor. Im pretty sure the Holden has a much better suspension then the GTO also... something more like a BMW i think. But the GTO is just its chassis with a downgrade in suspension and an upgrade in whats under the hood IMHO.

    I like the GTO's motor and drivtrain, but the chassis from which pontiac decided to build form was a huge mistake. If pontiac stepped up and designed a chassis for the GTO itself it really would have been a much faster car. All the other modern muscle that is being developed has its own look and suspension.

    The GTO just doesnt give the same feel. First time i saw one in person i thought to myself, wow who would put a v-8 in a grand am. Then later an old GF of mine her father got one. I had a chance to drive around town with it for a short while and just didnt pop for me. The car feels solid and puts power down but not what you would expect. Then anything in the turning it just doesnt respond. The GTO's chassis caused it to be much less popular then it should have been.

    Pontiac didnt step up. IMHO they ruined the GTO. It just seems like the way to car handles directly corresponds to the way it looks. Like a grand am. And the power it puts down is fair but not enough to make up for other mistakes made.

    I mean if you close your eyes mash the pedal and go in only a strait line you have a nice car. BUt anything else just doesnt do any older goats justice.

    Now YMMV but IMHO your money can be spent much wiser on a different auto.. Pontiac may have fixed this before they went belly up but not soon enough. Its just if your going to build american muscle have it be its own. Dont use an Australian car to build from.

    EDIT > edmunds has the GTO placed at a 5.3 0-60 and only a 13.8 1.4 time. An 09 could match that easily, especially if you just dropped a stage one on it. Now price for price you can get a USED gto for just under what you can get a NEW 09 wrx for. Plus now you get 4 doors and AWD, better handling IMHO a much better looking car.
    As a new 09 owner and former 05 GTO owner, I can say that without a doubt my GTO would rape my WRX in a straight line. After 60, the GTO would leave it in the dust. Over 100, forget it Charlie. Both great cars but the GTO is in a different league in terms of power.

  15. #29
    Registered User Poohbear's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    943
    Like i said close your eyes go in a strait line you have a good car. Other wise bleh... Im not arguing the GTO would be faster in a strait line, it seems edmunds has some funky numbers.

    I am arguing money can be spent better elsewhere. I would just rather spend my money on something else. Now if the GTO had the Holden suspension that would be different. From what I understand the GTO suspension is heavier and slower to react.

    Funny your a FORMER gto owner and now have a NEW 09 ...
    Your vehicle is an extension of your skill as a driver, not a substitute for it.

    Stink-Eye Mob Member #21
    08+ Gauge install DIY
    Turn off your seat belt chime

  16. #30
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    San Francisco
    Posts
    24
    Quote Originally Posted by Poohbear View Post
    Ok

    1) you missed my point. They made american muscle out of a foreign car. They should have made it its own car instead of building on an existing platform. Not saying Australia has bad cars but read it how you want.

    2) the GTO is only running a 13.8 1/4 with a 5.3 0-60 that makes it slower then 09+ so no your not correct. Strait line 09+ will beat the GTO but it will be a good race. Toss in one or 2 turns and blam no contest. So no you are wrong it wont beat any wrx in "speed". Maybe top speed but Im not sure what your talking about when you just say "speed".

    3) not saying its a bad car, just saying its bad American muscle. The car is slow for having what 361 HP? In know G8 GXP got 402 but not sure about the GT or v-6 base. Its sluggish and slower then it should be in corners. This is chalked up to its heavy suspension like I mentioned earlier.

    4) Either way if your going to buy muscle money can be better spent in somehting other then the GTO or G8. IMHO

    EDIT > money better spent on say a camaro SS with a 68 mph Solomon course and a 5.0 0-60 and a 13.1 1/4. Faster then your G8 and looks a million times better. After all the camaro is more its own car then the pontiac GTO...
    Read your point 2.

    Nothing funny about me moving from a GTO to a WRX. I sold my GTO in 2007 when in moved from Dallas to San Francisco. Hard to justify/afford living in the city with muscle car. After a couple of years I decided to move on from the 93 Camry and drive something fun. The WRX was the one.

+ Reply to Thread
Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast

Quick Reply Quick Reply

Register Now

Please enter the name by which you would like to log-in and be known on this site.
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.

Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Please enter a valid email address for yourself. We strongly suggest that you stay away from using aol, yahoo, msn, and hotmail accounts. Sometimes the mail server blocks the emails from our server. As a result you will not receive any notifications including the confirmation email.

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.


Posting Permissions

  • You may post new threads
  • You may post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •