stage 2 gti vs VF48 WRX

[gigabytexbc]

i would have a twin turbo viper and be done with it for anything in that price range. for class...a porshe, but the viper for daily speed ha. hope everyone had a good christmas

[RealityCheck84]

First, let's clear something up: HP at the wheels is HP at the wheels. Everything else being equal, it doesn't make any difference if a car is RWD, AWD, or FWD if the HP at the wheels is identical. Once traction isn’t an issue, neither AWD, FWD, or RWD has any advantage or disadvantage.

That being said, there’s no reason we have to debate the whole WRX vs Cobalt SS vs GTI issue. It’s already been measured empirically. Ignoring standing start numbers, here’s how they stack up.

5-60 roll:
Cobalt: 6.0
WRX: 6.3
Stage II WRX: 5.8
GTI: 6.7
MS3: 6.2

5-100 roll (calculated by adding 5-60 and 60-100 times):
Cobalt: 13.8
WRX: 14.5
Stage II WRX: 13.4
GTI: 16.8
MS3: 13.9

30-100 (calculated by subtracting 0-30 time from 0-100 time):
Cobalt: 11.1
WRX: 11.4
Stage II WRX: Unavailable
GTI: 13.9
MS3: 10.9

60-100 (calculated by subtracting 0-60 time from 0-100 time):
Cobalt: 7.8
WRX: 8.2
Stage II WRX: 7.6
GTI: 10.1
MS3: 7.7

So, there it is. By largely negating the WRX’s AWD advantage it’s clear that the Cobalt and the Mazdaspeed 3 are noticeably quicker than a stock WRX, and a stage 2 WRX is slightly quicker than a stock Cobalt or MS3. The GTI simply isn’t in the same league as the WRX, MS3 or Cobalt SS and would probably need an additional 50hp at the wheels to keep up with a stock WRX from a roll.
Anybody who dismisses the Cobalt SS as just another crappy domestic car really needs to drive one. It’s faster than the WRX, handles better, and even has a better interior (in my opinion). I love AWD, otherwise I would have purchased a Cobalt SS instead of my 2009 WRX.

[zax]

I'm assuming these numbers correspond to 2009 models?

[RealityCheck84]

I'm assuming these numbers correspond to 2009 models?

Correct.

[Wrinklechops]

5-60 roll:
Cobalt: 6.0
WRX: 6.3
Stage II WRX: 5.8
GTI: 6.7
MS3: 6.2

5-100 roll (calculated by adding 5-60 and 60-100 times):
Cobalt: 13.8
WRX: 14.5
Stage II WRX: 13.4
GTI: 16.8
MS3: 13.9

30-100 (calculated by subtracting 0-30 time from 0-100 time):
Cobalt: 11.1
WRX: 11.4
Stage II WRX: Unavailable
GTI: 13.9
MS3: 10.9

60-100 (calculated by subtracting 0-60 time from 0-100 time):
Cobalt: 7.8
WRX: 8.2
Stage II WRX: 7.6
GTI: 10.1
MS3: 7.7

That's good stuff. Where did you get those numbers? And do you have any numbers on let's say, for example, a "Stage II" Cobalt SS or MS3? I would guess it would be noticeably even quicker than a Stage II WRX? Also, you were going off of a 2009+ WRX "Stage II", right? Because I can assure you my 2005 WRX "Stage II+" isn't even as fast as a stock Cobalt SS.

With regards to AWD vs FWD, etc... numbers measured at the wheels don't tell the whole story I guess... because the OP with 280whp got beat by a GTI with 260whp at best. Less drivetrain loss, different gearing perhaps, different powerband, lighter weight, I don't know.

Anybody who dismisses the Cobalt SS as just another crappy domestic car really needs to drive one. It’s faster than the WRX, handles better, and even has a better interior (in my opinion). I love AWD, otherwise I would have purchased a Cobalt SS instead of my 2009 WRX.

+1. I completely agree. Chevy really did their homework with this and it shows.

[gigabytexbc]

cool that you got the stage 2 numbers. of course i do be doing more than just stage 2, there is A LOT of potential out of the vf52 with supporting mods. same situation as with the srt4, not just a neon haha. this in reference to the cobalts. i can't see how everyone raves about the gtis interior. honestly, the interior that is supposed to be "superb" felt cheap to me and the wrx felt more grown up and more comfortable not to mention better looking. all opinion of course. i'm sure the same goes for the cobalt ss. still have to sit in one, new one anyways i've been in the old SSs . yet still, even so, looks wise for me the wrx hatchback wins hands down compared to any of those cars. idk what it is but that's how i feel and i know a lot of people think they are ugly but hey, that's me for ya. not to mention i'd hate to lose the boxer rumble which compared to modified v8s i LOVE the sound of. time to play some COD MW2

[Wrinklechops]

cool that you got the stage 2 numbers. of course i do be doing more than just stage 2, there is A LOT of potential out of the vf52 with supporting mods. same situation as with the srt4, not just a neon haha. this in reference to the cobalts. i can't see how everyone raves about the gtis interior. honestly, the interior that is supposed to be "superb" felt cheap to me and the wrx felt more grown up and more comfortable not to mention better looking. all opinion of course. i'm sure the same goes for the cobalt ss. still have to sit in one, new one anyways i've been in the old SSs . yet still, even so, looks wise for me the wrx hatchback wins hands down compared to any of those cars. idk what it is but that's how i feel and i know a lot of people think they are ugly but hey, that's me for ya. not to mention i'd hate to lose the boxer rumble which compared to modified v8s i LOVE the sound of. time to play some COD MW2

Keep in mind you are on a WRX enthusiast forum. The opinions here are going to be slightly biased! Then again, it's hard to find a forum that is open minded to every kind of car, I know.

I can't stand the guys on my Jeep forum who trash imports all day long. They don't give them a second look whatsoever and are very narrow minded.

But I also can't stand the import lovers who just dog on the domestic cars, no matter what they bring to the table.

[gigabytexbc]

yea, i love all cars to be honest. they all have their perps. domestic, import, etc... no matter what i'll never be the fastest i just want something i'm comfortable in and happy with that i can do mods to because i love the enjoyment and seeing the improvement they make to the car, it boosts my ego . so, one car down aka gti(though still want to test drive for the hell of it just wasn't comfortable to me) wrx still ahead. have to go to a chevy dealership and check out the SS just for you still but we're getting 12" of snow right now. time to hit the gym.

[zax]

no matter what i'll never be the fastest i just want something i'm comfortable in and happy with that i can do mods to because i love the enjoyment and seeing the improvement they make to the car, it boosts my ego .

I couldn't say it better myself. I think that's also why I lift to be honest...

[RealityCheck84]

Where did you get those numbers?

The numbers for the stock cars came from this article:
Cobalt SS v WRX, and 5 More Sport Compacts - Comparison Tests

C&D also just happened to build/test a 2009 stage II WRX:
Five Steps to Making More Power in Your Subaru WRX - Gear Box - Auto Reviews - Car and Driver

None of the other mags test 5-60, which is a shame because it really tells a lot about the real-world performance of a car and reduces the impact driver skill has on the outcome. That being said, I've had plenty of cars ('04 Z06, '06 GTO, '99 Z28, etc) that would melt the tires off the wheels if you just stomped on the gas pedal from a 5 mph roll, so AWD is still somewhat of a factor.

With regards to AWD vs FWD, etc... numbers measured at the wheels don't tell the whole story I guess... because the OP with 280whp got beat by a GTI with 260whp at best. Less drivetrain loss, different gearing perhaps, different powerband, lighter weight, I don't know.

Everything you listed will affect the outcome except drivetrain loss, since it has already been accounted for in the wheel HP measurement. Then again, everything listed will affect the outcome regardless of whether the car is FWD or AWD.

[gigabytexbc]

that's why i began lifting as well. i may never be the biggest but i'll be above average and it's gives my ego a boost. hence no more depression for me haha. it makes me feel good same thing with the car.

I couldn't say it better myself. I think that's also why I lift to be honest...

[02 wrx sleeper]

Interesting thread....

With my 06 and a VF39 I'm putting down 334whp and 340TQ on 18lbs on a dyno dynamics. I just recently took down my buddy with his 2006 Mustabg GT than runs a 12.7 @109mph from a 60mph roll. He's putting down 310whp and 330TQ and I put 1 car on him 3 runs in a row. No stage 2 GTI is going to trap at 110+mph. So I personally don't for see a stage 2 GTI ever being a threat

[Wrinklechops]

Everything you listed will affect the outcome except drivetrain loss, since it has already been accounted for in the wheel HP measurement. Then again, everything listed will affect the outcome regardless of whether the car is FWD or AWD.

It's just almost a general rule of thumb that FWD will win from a roll almost all of the time even with everything else being equal... this is because even if you can find a car that is offered with the same engine, same tranny, same everything and have one be a FWD car and the other twin an AWD car... the AWD car will weigh more. Even if it's 200-300lbs more, that will be the difference maker in an "all-else-being-equal" race from a roll.

[gigabytexbc]

i've beaten mustangs on the highway which is why it's weird. 05+ mustangs there are plenty of those to go around(even my aunt owns one a GT at that) and i own an 04 mustang GT, so weird you only beat him by that much unless he has plenty of good mods or a better gearing. i raced an orange 07(friends boyfriends) dig, highway he has xpipe, exhaust, handheld tuner ect... just the basics and it was nothing but pull even on the highway. dig was just a joke. my car today was running like absolutely **** i hope i don't have a vacuum leak you can tell it's running rich. then again, it's super cold out and the engine wasn't TOTALLY warmed up. all i know is that the guy with the gti said he raced a k04 gti and was at his bumper the whole time. the tune he has COMPLETELY maxes out everything that's all i know or at least that's all he told me...maybe he was k04 and just didn't feel like telling me haha because that's what i was saying as i was losing each time "it's gotta be a k04". whatever doesn't matter i'll have my 09 in 2-3 months and mines plenty of speed for me right now.

Interesting thread....

With my 06 and a VF39 I'm putting down 334whp and 340TQ on 18lbs on a dyno dynamics. I just recently took down my buddy with his 2006 Mustabg GT than runs a 12.7 @109mph from a 60mph roll. He's putting down 310whp and 330TQ and I put 1 car on him 3 runs in a row. No stage 2 GTI is going to trap at 110+mph. So I personally don't for see a stage 2 GTI ever being a threat

[Wrinklechops]

maybe he was k04 and just didn't feel like telling me haha because that's what i was saying as i was losing each time "it's gotta be a k04". whatever doesn't matter i'll have my 09 in 2-3 months and mines plenty of speed for me right now.

So you're set on the 09 rex for sure?

The K04 turbos the Audi RS4 uses are amazing. People put them on their Audi S4s and push 450hp/tq+. Craziness!

Maybe you should look into an older B5 S4! AWD too