stage 2 gti vs VF48 WRX - Page 3
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This is a discussion on stage 2 gti vs VF48 WRX within the Comparison: WRX vs World forums, part of the Community - Meet other Enthusiasts category; yes very true, wow some intelligent answers you guys are much better than nasioc haha should have been here all ...

  1. #31
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    yes very true, wow some intelligent answers you guys are much better than nasioc haha should have been here all these years. i won't be making crazy power so it shouldn't be TO bad plus when i hit it in the vette it just goes sideways so i'm used to that though it is nice with awd to not have to worry.
    Soon to be Stage 2.5 WRX.....

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  3. #32
    Administrator RayfieldsWRX's Avatar
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  4. #33
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    oh i agree completely. so props to you guys. i just honestly want a nice car that is very nice and easy to drive around town. i have to admit mine sucks to drive around for a daily driver that's why i take my sisters jetta out sometimes it's just that much easier to drive around more torquey. i go downtown(chicago) a lot and having that torque is nice because down there you have to zoom in and out. i'm tired of being on the highway at 70 mph and having it at 3200 rpms since i do a lot of highway driving. i'd hate to lose the aspect of not being able to wave to my subie brothers but the vdub club are just as nice from my experience. not looking to go super fast since no matter what someone else is always faster(hell look what this gti did to me). i still want a little "sporty" tuner car so that's why i'm looking in this area of cars. just want an all around quick car that is nice to drive around town and drives nicer on the highway. in all honestly interior means a lot to me looking for something nice and more grown up hence why i think gti is for me. i don't ever want to have to do a turbo swap again etc... because it just costs to much $$$ and i WANT my heated seats god i love mine right now ha. i'd hate to lose AWD but honestly it doesn't help THAT much around corners(overrated or at least with all seasons tires it is) and is only good for straight line without spinning tires which is nice but i can deal without i have in the past. just to experiment i took my sisters jetta out last night right after it snowed and i did just fine and she just has regular tires. the 09 wrxs i absolutely love but i need something more affordable.
    Last edited by gigabytexbc; 12-21-2009 at 12:08 PM.
    Soon to be Stage 2.5 WRX.....

  5. #34
    Wrinklechops
    Quote Originally Posted by xsnapshot View Post
    whp accounts for all drivetrain losses due to how it is measured. Lets say you put an 08 SS on some dyno and it made 300whp, then put a 05 WRX on the same dyno and it made 300whp.

    Lets even for a moment assume that the shape of the power band is similar. Both are making peak torque at 4000 RPM and both are making peak horsepower at 6000 RPM.

    So IF the cobalt wins up top, then there can only be a few things that cause this. It has a better power to weight ratio, or it has better gearing. (barring aerodynamics).

    My take is this:
    In the real word they win so often because they really do make more power to the wheels, usually are lighter(an EVO X is 3500lbs! an 06 STI is 3350), and occasionally have better gearing depending on the car. Also it is much easier for the owners of said FWD vehicles to get more power to the wheels simply because they do not loose as much through inefficiency. This means when they push their motors to the edge of safety, they are often putting more to the wheels than their AWD counterparts.
    John M summed it up very nicely. I don't know what else to add to this discussion. I feel like we're spinning our wheels here (almost literally!)...

    ...The Cobalt SS does not make 300whp stock of course. Supposedly the reports are that Chevy underrated them slightly. 260 at the crank from the factory but people all report somewhere around 240-250whp when they get it on a dyno.

    And don't forget that a Cobalt SS is making this power at very usable rpms... it hits peak torque at 2000rpm and holds fairly solid across the powerband to redline. The WRX doesn't make torque until much higher rpms.

    So, a fairly good comparison, I feel... 09 WRX with 265hp vs Cobalt SS with 260hp. The Cobalt SS is going to be faster in all sorts of ways, except from a dead stop. It would quickly gain on the WRX though.

    In fact, I might even go so far as to argue that a turbo SS could hang with if not beat a stock STi or Evo as well. This is due to the drivetrain loss, again. The STi and Evo make what, around 300hp at the crank from the factory...so they're probably all putting down around 240-250whp on a dyno? There you go, good matchup against the comparable power levels of a stock Cobalt SS. Would love to see some races of those cars... I know "anzioblack" (member on here) has some great videos like that. One was an SS beating an Evo on the highway but I don't know what the mods were, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by gigabytexbc View Post
    oh i agree completely. so props to you guys. i just honestly want a nice car that is very nice and easy to drive around town. i have to admit mine sucks to drive around for a daily driver that's why i take my sisters jetta out sometimes it's just that much easier to drive around more torquey. i go downtown(chicago) a lot and having that torque is nice because down there you have to zoom in and out. i'm tired of being on the highway at 70 mph and having it at 3200 rpms since i do a lot of highway driving. i'd hate to lose the aspect of not being able to wave to my subie brothers but the vdub club are just as nice from my experience. not looking to go super fast since no matter what someone else is always faster(hell look what this gti did to me). i still want a little "sporty" tuner car so that's why i'm looking in this area of cars. just want an all around quick car that is nice to drive around town and drives nicer on the highway. in all honestly interior means a lot to me looking for something nice and more grown up hence why i think gti is for me. i don't ever want to have to do a turbo swap again etc... because it just costs to much $$$ and i WANT my heated seats god i love mine right now ha. i'd hate to lose AWD but honestly it doesn't help THAT much around corners(overrated or at least with all seasons tires it is) and is only good for straight line without spinning tires which is nice but i can deal without i have in the past. just to experiment i took my sisters jetta out last night right after it snowed and i did just fine and she just has regular tires. the 09 wrxs i absolutely love but i need something more affordable.

    Did you read my very extensive reply to you a few posts back, before this whole AWD vs FWD thing started? I tried to include tons of great info and links and videos for ya!

    I personally say Cobalt SS. Is your only objection because of the interior? Since going fast for cheap seems to be a semi-priority of yours, I honestly don't think you will find a better deal than the SS. Anyways, go check my last reply to you!
    Last edited by Wrinklechops; 12-21-2009 at 12:33 PM.

  6. #35
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    haha no no i took into account everything you said and my buddy has one. i have fitment issues inside it and idk just kind of want a hatchback and the interior you're right isn't THAT bad but it doesn't compare, at least imo to an ms3 or gti, gti being the best i've been in. haven't sat in a new 09 wrx yet but it's out of my price range anyways. i've always debated the ms3 but it doesn't have heated seats but i know you can talk the dealer into adding them in according to forums. i've heard the powerband sucks though. still haven't test driven any of these cars so what do i know.
    Soon to be Stage 2.5 WRX.....

  7. #36
    Wrinklechops
    Quote Originally Posted by gigabytexbc View Post
    still haven't test driven any of these cars so what do i know.
    That's probably key right there

    Go test drive them all and report back to us! Seriously, it could be good for you and for all of us following the discussion! Check out the MS3, the GTi, Cobalt SS, and the 09 WRX. Prices aside, find the one that you like the most. Feel out the dealerships too, see which ones you like the most.

    Found a cool little Edmunds review/comparison between the Cobalt SS and VW GTI, check it out.

    "Face-Off Tournament: Chevy Cobalt SS vs Volkswagen GTI" Edmunds Daily

    However, all those persnickety concerns fade once I'm behind the wheel and enjoying the car. You can have your GTI's soft-touch materials and soft performance; I'll gladly take some hard plastic trim in exchange for more hard-core performance.
    That's what one guy said with regard to the interior of the SS vs the GTI.

  8. #37
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    yea you're right i should test drive. i have a friend who has an ms3 so i can test drive that, surprised i haven't yet and my new buddy with the gti. i've never test driven at a dealership though just kind of ehhhh about it. what IS nice about the ms3 though is that i could continue to get tuned by my same tuner who has recently started tuning mazdas and he's great. plus performance for dead cheap. just have to finally sit in one and try it out
    Soon to be Stage 2.5 WRX.....

  9. #38
    Registered User 2004NeonSRT4's Avatar
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    a logical discussion of awd vs the world. i like. I'm not sure where i read it nor could i being to explain how it works but i heard that drive train lose increases with aerodynamic drag. the engine has to work harder to punch the car through the air. makes sense but i don't know if the increase is exponentially greater for awd vs fwd. say a sti has 25% lose at 60mph does it have 30% at 100 ? and if a srt has 20% at 60 does it have the same 10% increase or is it less? i dunno. but in the real world is shows time and time again that rwd/fwd can take a awd with all things else pretty equal from a roll. another way to look at it is if you ever look at awd cars vs others car with similar hp/weight ratios the other cars almost always have a higher trap speed in the quarter mile.
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  10. #39
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    I ran a Cobalt ss from 80 to 135 he has a tbe, cai, and his ecu has been played with (not sure what programmer) but he got me by about a car length...........at the time i only had a cai and a cat back..........i'm sure now that i'm stage 2 that i'd totally spank him
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  11. #40
    Wrinklechops
    Quote Originally Posted by 1fst4cyl View Post
    I ran a Cobalt ss from 80 to 135 he has a tbe, cai, and his ecu has been played with (not sure what programmer) but he got me by about a car length...........at the time i only had a cai and a cat back..........i'm sure now that i'm stage 2 that i'd totally spank him
    Do you have an 08 or an 09?

    Would be interested to see the rematch.

  12. #41
    Registered User 1fst4cyl's Avatar
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    2009........I'd like to see the rematch also...........i really want him from a dead dig
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  13. #42
    Wrinklechops
    Quote Originally Posted by 1fst4cyl View Post
    2009........I'd like to see the rematch also...........i really want him from a dead dig
    You would obviously win from a dead dig.

    Do you know if he had his SS in the "Sport Mode" or whatever...which engages flat-foot-shifting, etc?

  14. #43
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    I'm really not sure all i know is that i've talked to a few people and they say he just runs up and down this stretch of road with his laptop hooked up testing and testing and testing
    09 WRX Wagon

  15. #44
    Wrinklechops
    Quote Originally Posted by 1fst4cyl View Post
    I'm really not sure all i know is that i've talked to a few people and they say he just runs up and down this stretch of road with his laptop hooked up testing and testing and testing
    That's cool. He's probably fine-tuning his ECU. Could be dangerous if he gets everything dialed in! Are you running an OTS map or are you professionally tuned Stage II?

  16. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2004NeonSRT4 View Post
    a logical discussion of awd vs the world. i like. I'm not sure where i read it nor could i being to explain how it works but i heard that drive train lose increases with aerodynamic drag. the engine has to work harder to punch the car through the air. makes sense but i don't know if the increase is exponentially greater for awd vs fwd. say a sti has 25% lose at 60mph does it have 30% at 100 ? and if a srt has 20% at 60 does it have the same 10% increase or is it less? i dunno. but in the real world is shows time and time again that rwd/fwd can take a awd with all things else pretty equal from a roll. another way to look at it is if you ever look at awd cars vs others car with similar hp/weight ratios the other cars almost always have a higher trap speed in the quarter mile.
    I was thinking of this exact same thing at work today and i couldn't decide on anything.

    I would imagine the loss would change with RPM and load. How much will it change is anyone's guess, but I think your right in thinking that the % change will be different for FWD/RWD/AWD.

    The only thing i was pointing out earlier was that HP at the wheel, is HP at the wheels for any car. Once that power is measured at the wheels, all drivetrain losses at that point have already been accounted for. Now in real world loading conditions, your numbers to the wheels will vary.

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