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This is a discussion on 2010 Hyundai Genesis within the Comparison: WRX vs World forums, part of the Community - Meet other Enthusiasts category; Originally Posted by mycologist The ironic thing is I am guessing you may not have owned or driven an American ...

  1. #76
    Wrinklechops
    Quote Originally Posted by mycologist View Post
    The ironic thing is I am guessing you may not have owned or driven an American V8 regularly. You have a Japanese car and are looking to replace it with another non-American turbo 4-banger. Whereas, SD is pining after a big old American car with a V8 and has discussed it often and even posted pics of a project or potential project Olds recently IIRC.
    One of my favorite ex vehicles was my 1994 Jeep Grand Cherokee with the 5.2 V8 in it. Over 250,000 miles and I drove it like an idiotic young punk and never took care of it (I was stupid). I think I changed the oil in it once in the 2 years I owned it? It ran like a champ. Don't get me started on my rare-but-fragile WRX engine (that I actually took care of!).

    Also, I'm assuming you are referring to the casual interest I had in a DSM car? Well, that was short lived. There seems to be no end to the number of them I find that aren't running.

    Quote Originally Posted by 302@12psi View Post
    It's nice that you went out and found an expert to help your failing cause.

    No one can comment if some of these new "exotic" (cause their from japan) V8's will last 300k miles or not....cause they havent been around long enough.

    Again...you keep jumping your arguement this all started cause you said no one could build a v8 as powerful and as good as an American company. Then you leaped over to no one can build a truck as good as an American company. Then you went onto to say that the American made 350SB is iconic and better then many current motors. Now you proclaim that while the other countries motors can on paper make just as much power none of them are going to last 300k miles but they havent been around long enough to verify that.

    I'm not a "ricer" fanboi. I also dont hate everything I dont understand.
    My friend is certainly no "expert" - just someone with much more car enthusiasm over the years than I. What I found interesting was he became fond of his favorite American V8 engine through a matter of actually NOT liking it at first. I'm not sure what you presume my "cause" to be in this matter, but I assure you I am not failing at it. I understand that some of my comments have potentially been misinterpreted and vice versa. To be fair, this is a Japanese car company message board and I'm sure that if one went on some redneck American truck or car forum there would be plenty of people denouncing anything positive about Japanese cars. I detest anyone like that - knocking something without trying it. I certainly don't hate what I don't understand. I'm thankful that it is through adversity that my ideas and opinions may be challenged and I may emerge stronger and more informed in the end. Thanks for that 302

    I never said no one could build a V8 as powerful and good as an American company. Gosh this seems to be where this whole thread went insanely wrong. Listen, all I said was, in a tone that cannot be expressed via the internet: leave the V8s to the Americans.

    Now, let's break that down and over-analyze that too. I never said no company could ever build a V8 as good as the Americans, nor did I say that they shouldn't ever try. I guess maybe that's how it was interpreted. My apologies. I absolutely LOVE car companies like Subaru, BMW, Nissan, etc. I think BMW makes amazing V8 engines. I think all German car companies do in fact.

    So let's get back to the basics of what I said, or was trying to say... with regard to the time tested V8s we have in America, that was sort of what I was getting at in a sarcastic kind of tone. You said yourself you don't know the longevity of the foreign V8s (although I doubt even those BMW V8s I love will last beyond 300,000 miles) and that was sort of all I was getting at! I was kind of JOKING when I said other car companies should just leave the V8s to the Americans.

    With regard to the slight off-topic comment of mine about American trucks, I was merely referring to something that I feel no foreign car company has beat in the market yet. Simply put, you will not see a Toyota Tundra or a Nissan Titan pulling a 15,000lb trailer up a mountain. The Japanese trucks have yet to penetrate that market of trucks. They can compete with the entry level 1500 trucks we offer, but beyond that there is no competition from them. If you want a 2500-3500 or above truck (and/or NEED it for work purposes for example), you will not be looking at anything other than a Ford/Chevy/Dodge truck. All I was bringing that up for was to show that there are some great products from America that no one else can or has tried to compete with thus far. Does that mean if Toyota or Nissan tried they couldn't compete? No. They probably most certainly could. Why haven't they tried? Toyota/Honda/Nissan/etc have conquered the small and mid-sized car market and dominated the American manufacturers but haven't been able to hold a candle to the brilliance of the American workhorse truck. These trucks feature many of the V8 engines we were discussing, thus I felt it pertinent and relevant to our discussion on American V8s. I don't think I was venturing too far off the path.
    Last edited by Wrinklechops; 09-15-2009 at 11:22 PM. Reason: forgot some stuff

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  3. #77
    Wrinklechops

    For the record....

    I just wanted to throw this in the thread too, in case it gets closed (as I feel might be soon).

    I'm not going to make a science project out of searching for these again...did it before when i was trying to decide for myself if it was a good motor,but here is at least one offhand on the forum....man i could spend hours finding these:

    Both of these were my grandpa's vehicles. '97 Z-71 extended cab, Vortec 350. He ran it 330k miles then gave it to my cousin who ran it 20k more and basically gave it away on trade in for a Cobalt she sold a year later. It never burned a drop of oil. The second was his '01-02 1500hd 6.0 4x4. Traded in at 300k miles for a good price (in excellent shape) on his '07 f-250. Didn't burn any oil either. Both engines were not only mega high mileage, but were high-idled for a/c in 100+ degree oil fields every day for hours a day.


    (not a 350 My old s10 2.2 5sp had 310k when i traded it, used 5w30 maxlife blend and fram every 3-4k

    is a 350: Just posted pics and info on my 89 Caprice hitting 500,000km's (310k miles) on the original engine still running good, with dino 5w30 oil changes ever 3-5k miles.

    We run a fleet of Savana 3500's in some of the toughest duty imaginable.

    One of our vans has 335,000 miles on it, driven daily at 9000 pounds. 2004 6.0 Gas V8 with oil changed by OLM with Amsoil SSO and Ea filters exclusively.

    Our best van ever was wrecked at 400K miles, 2000 5.7 gas V8, and the engine and trans are in my sons friends car now for a year! Still runs perfect and no knocking or oil consumption.

    Stepfather has a chevy work box truck with a 350 in it that now has 320k miles on it in PA. No internal engine work and gets changed with dino between 3 and 5 k miles. Still in use

    A friend has a 99 Silverado Classic 5.7L with 260,000 miles on M1 10-30 with 15-20,000 mile OCIs.

    Also, we've got a '94 Suburban with the 350 TBI that has 260,000 miles. It has been fed a combination of Valvoline dino 10w-30 and HDEO 15w-40 with a current fill of Maxlife 10w-40. Still runs like a top.

    And these are just responses to a post i made on the oil forum, for high mileage stories on dino and synthetic, of any car...overwhelmingly many of them were Chevy and many were v8s and 350s in particular.

    gotta go more later...

    Have seen much higher mileage than these more often than not as well.

    Note...additionally, many if not most of the engines I quote with high mileage are in trucks, and consider a few things about that...

    trucks are not typically "garage queens"....they are pushed hard, put under load, and used to haul, work, tow, in whatever conditions are present at the time. they are also prone, in many cases, to not being "babied" as far as maintenance either, for a variety of reasons - knucklehead owners, lack of time, etc...

    another fact: Chevrolet makes the "longest lasting trucks on the road"... and guess what engine is in most of those trucks, probably 75 percent or more would be accurate: yep, you guessed it, the 350. that being the case, refer to the above operating conditions and maintenance that trucks are typically subjected to, and the former being almost if not totally exclusive to trucks in particular, and you got yourself a winner.

    350...for the win!!
    Just wanted to see if we could get some stories about long lasting Mercedes V8s for example as Myco pointed out.

    Also, I just don't have that warm fuzzy feeling that my WRX will last to 300,000 miles or more lol. I know it's not a V8, but regardless, I just don't think it's gonna last that long. I know I'm comparing apples to melons or something, but it's just funny for me to even imagine a 300,000 mile WRX. I love it and wish it would last, but I won't bet large sums of money on it.
    Last edited by Wrinklechops; 09-15-2009 at 11:46 PM.

  4. #78
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    There are several mildly modded WRX's steadily approaching 200k miles without any major issues. 300k in a probably maintained vehicle now a days isnt unheard of. The issue is typically no one takes care of them in the US regarding repairs.

    The reason you will not see a Nissan pulling 15,000 LBS up a hill all day is because they do not have a diesel in their truck line up. Get a Triton ford F250 gas motor to do that everyday and you'll replace the motor well before it's 7th birthday IMHO.
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  5. #79
    Registered User John M's Avatar
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    And the reason you don't see a Tundra pulling a 15-20klb trailer (yet) is because Toyota canceled plans for their 3/4 and 1-ton models when first gas prices and then the economy tanked. They were indeed planning a diesel and all the goodies that go with it.

    Just google 'tundra diesel' and you'll see plenty on the subject.

    Oh, and for crazy domestic cars, one of my future projects will be a turbo LT1 Cadillac Fleetwood, with decals to put the emphasis on Fleetwood. I'd like to make it look nearly stock on the outside while approaching the 1000 hp level.
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  6. #80
    Administrator RayfieldsWRX's Avatar
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    I don't enjoy arguing enough to stay with this.

    Ray's point of view has not changed:

    • American V8's are great! I owned and worked on one back in the 80's, and the sound they make is awesome! I'd like to own another Chevy V8 some day!!
    • Many foreign V8's are great! My buddy's Tundra has a 4 cam V8 that is freakishly smooth, and makes 381hp/401ft-lbs. The new V8 in the Genesis, by most reports, also seems to be a nicely engineered piece of work!

    That's it, my friend. If by your statement ("leave the V8's to the Americans!") you are saying that no one else in the world makes a quality V8, then we disagree, and that's that. If you are not saying that, then we have no disagreement, and bully for us!

    I like cars. A well-designed engine or other system in a vehicle will impress me regardless of where it's produced.

    I'll leave the diesel topic alone; I don't know enough to comment.
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  7. #81
    Wrinklechops
    Quote Originally Posted by 302@12psi View Post
    There are several mildly modded WRX's steadily approaching 200k miles without any major issues. 300k in a probably maintained vehicle now a days isnt unheard of. The issue is typically no one takes care of them in the US regarding repairs.

    The reason you will not see a Nissan pulling 15,000 LBS up a hill all day is because they do not have a diesel in their truck line up. Get a Triton ford F250 gas motor to do that everyday and you'll replace the motor well before it's 7th birthday IMHO.
    I'm sure it's possible and I did not deny that a WRX could last to 200,000 miles or more but I think it's rare. I stress the word RARE. I have gone through 3 major engine repairs on my car due to "porosity issues" (Subaru's fancy way of explaining a cracked block or something). If you modify a WRX, I have trouble accepting the fact that it will without question make it to the 300,000 mile mark.

    You're right, I should not have said 15,000lbs because that's diesel territory. I could care less about Nissan or Toyota's plans for a diesel because they didn't come to fruition.

    The new GMC Sierra can tow over 10,000lbs on a gas engine with 403hp and 417tq. Impressive. Come get some Nissan/Toyota!

    Another thing, have you guys heard of the insane oil sludge issues with the Tundras? Just Google it. I'm talking oil sludge buildup at 30,000 miles - enough to kill an engine. Yikes!

    YouTube - Toyota Engine Oil Sludge or Toyota Oil Gel Engine Failure



    That's some stuff on Toyotas in general, but just Google the Tundra and it'll come up.
    Last edited by Wrinklechops; 09-16-2009 at 09:17 AM.

  8. #82
    Admiral Ackbar mycologist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RayfieldsWRX View Post


    I don't enjoy arguing enough to stay with this.

    Ray's point of view has not changed:

    • American V8's are great! I owned and worked on one back in the 80's, and the sound they make is awesome! I'd like to own another Chevy V8 some day!!
    • Many foreign V8's are great! My buddy's Tundra has a 4 cam V8 that is freakishly smooth, and makes 381hp/401ft-lbs. The new V8 in the Genesis, by most reports, also seems to be a nicely engineered piece of work!

    That's it, my friend. If by your statement ("leave the V8's to the Americans!") you are saying that no one else in the world makes a quality V8, then we disagree, and that's that. If you are not saying that, then we have no disagreement, and bully for us!

    I like cars. A well-designed engine or other system in a vehicle will impress me regardless of where it's produced.

    I'll leave the diesel topic alone; I don't know enough to comment.
    I agree at this point - I can't read it any more and the circular arguments have run around a few times already.

    My points would be

    1) Colin likes to debate but isn't very good at it. Make a point and back it up instead of redirecting all the time.

    2) American v8s rule the world as long as we don't compare them to anything else in the world.

    3) We should accept the standard of a motor that ceased development ages ago and any advancements are like flavoring in coffee (specifically the 350).

    4) Specific significant advancements by American companies, although all are already over 15 years old, are mentioned nowhere despite being an obvious case. E.g. the L62 Cadillac V8-6-4 multidisplacement introduction in 1981 and the Northstar DOHC in 1992.

    I vote to shut her down unless Spiro or Craig are still enjoying it.
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  9. #83
    He simply abides. SD_GR's Avatar
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    I did enjoy the discussion and I admit it's made me feel more than a little nostalgic. The future is not what it used to be. There are numerous US-based advances in internal combustion design, along with numerous side steps and even miss-steps -- stuff like very early 60s turbo experiments, early Al alloy experiments (though I did touch on that, heh!) etc. I'm still not a US-#1-V8 guy. I don't think anyone's opinion has changed with all this talk, but I'm glad everything stayed civil and outright fun. Thanks, and I'll see everyone in other threads!
    Last edited by SD_GR; 09-16-2009 at 09:53 AM.
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  10. #84
    Wrinklechops
    Quote Originally Posted by mycologist View Post
    I agree at this point - I can't read it any more and the circular arguments have run around a few times already.

    My points would be

    1) Colin likes to debate but isn't very good at it. Make a point and back it up instead of redirecting all the time.

    2) American v8s rule the world as long as we don't compare them to anything else in the world.

    3) We should accept the standard of a motor that ceased development ages ago and any advancements are like flavoring in coffee (specifically the 350).

    4) Specific significant advancements by American companies, although all are already over 15 years old, are mentioned nowhere despite being an obvious case. E.g. the L62 Cadillac V8-6-4 multidisplacement introduction in 1981 and the Northstar DOHC in 1992.

    I vote to shut her down unless Spiro or Craig are still enjoying it.

    My points would be:

    1) John thinks because I don't have a PhD and am younger I am thereby not qualified or experienced enough to have an opinion. At least one that warrants some merit behind it. I did make points and I did back them up. You assumed I never even owned an American V8 and I came back to you with a story that I had indeed owned one and loved it. I didn't see you acknowledge that. You attacked me by saying I probably never owned one when in fact I did. Why not just ask next time instead of making an inference that I have no clue what I'm talking about because I haven't driven/owned one. I guess all I was trying to do with the "redirection" talk about American trucks was to get you guys to admit there is at least SOMETHING American produced that the Japanese cannot or have not tried to compete with yet.

    2) I never said American V8s "rule the world". Again, all I said in a JOKING SARCASTIC tone that cannot accurately be expressed via text was that car companies should leave the V8s to the Americans. Take that however you want I guess, because I'm done trying to stick up for myself and what I said. I meant NONE of what everyone has taken it as. I NEVER said other car companies couldn't make equally or better V8s... I just said it was our PAST TIME to make solid V8s, I guess. Gosh, how one simple sentence can be insanely misconstrued.

    3) The genius is in the simplicity, and it has advanced with the times and has had variations throughout the years.


    I'm surprised 302 hasn't shut it down yet, as he so often likes to have the last word in something before closing her down.
    Last edited by Wrinklechops; 09-16-2009 at 12:18 PM.

  11. #85
    Wrinklechops
    And about that Toyota diesel! Anyone know where they were going to get it? From the GM/Isuzu platform!

  12. #86
    Admiral Ackbar mycologist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wrinklechops View Post
    My points would be:

    1) John thinks because I don't have a PhD and am younger I am thereby not qualified or experienced enough to have an opinion. At least one that warrants some merit behind it. I did make points and I did back them up. You assumed I never even owned an American V8 and I came back to you with a story that I had indeed owned one and loved it. I didn't see you acknowledge that. You attacked me by saying I probably never owned one when in fact I did. Why not just ask next time instead of making an inference that I have no clue what I'm talking about because I haven't driven/owned one. I guess all I was trying to do with the "redirection" talk about American trucks was to get you guys to admit there is at least SOMETHING American produced that the Japanese cannot or have not tried to compete with yet.

    You are wrong, again. I am basing my judgment on the sheer number of incorrect statements you have made IMO. I said you may not have owned one, giving you the opportunity to gain credibility if I was wrong - I had not heard you discuss it at all. In my world, 'may' means something very different that 'probably'. Read back through what you have posted and you will see that there is virtually no technical or factual information that is actually relevant. I actually agreed with your opinion and supported your argument in several places and feel I provided better support for it throughout the thread than you have.

    2) I never said American V8s "rule the world". Again, all I said in a JOKING SARCASTIC tone that cannot accurately be expressed via text was that car companies should leave the V8s to the Americans. Take that however you want I guess, because I'm done trying to stick up for myself and what I said. I meant NONE of what everyone has taken it as. I NEVER said other car companies couldn't make equally or better V8s... I just said it was our PAST TIME to make solid V8s, I guess. Gosh, how one simple sentence can be insanely misconstrued.

    IMO you have misconstrued the majority of what has been posted. Also, read back because that is not all you said by any means

    3) The genius is in the simplicity, and it has advanced with the times and has had variations throughout the years.


    I'm surprised 302 hasn't shut it down yet, as he so often likes to have the last word in something before closing her down.
    and yet another dig for absolutely no reason
    Quote Originally Posted by Wrinklechops View Post
    Fair enough. I'll come better prepared and researched to our next debate Sorry to get off topic guys!

    Sorry if I misconstrued the latter point as well.
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  13. #87
    Wrinklechops
    Quote Originally Posted by mycologist View Post
    Sorry if I misconstrued the latter point as well.
    I tried leaving it at that.

  14. #88
    Wrinklechops
    Quote Originally Posted by 302@12psi View Post
    There are several mildly modded WRX's steadily approaching 200k miles without any major issues. 300k in a probably maintained vehicle now a days isnt unheard of. The issue is typically no one takes care of them in the US regarding repairs.
    There is a huge difference between "not unheard of" and "the norm".

    Example: jumping off a bridge is not unheard of, but it is not normal.

    There are many more cars that don't make 300,000 miles, foreign AND domestic, than those that do, but I've heard such an overwhelming amount of stories on the 350 that it apparently is "common". 300,000 miles very very common. 400,000 miles common. 500,000 miles - 1,000,000 are out there as well! Even a 68 Camaro with a 350 original engine hit 1,000,000 miles.

    And let me stress again that for personal example, the Jeep Grand Cherokee I owned with 250,000 miles on I DROVE LIKE AN IDIOT. I abused it. I was dumb. I NEVER even changed the oil, if that gives you any idea of how I took care of that thing. Rebuilt tranny before I bought it with 200,000 miles, but original engine. Cool huh?

    My point being, even with these American V8 engines being abused and pushed to their very limits, they still seem to hold on for a long time. You said a well maintained vehicle will not have trouble hitting 300,000 miles these days. I just gave you examples of old abused American V8s outlasting much abuse and not being maintained.
    Last edited by Wrinklechops; 09-16-2009 at 01:52 PM.

  15. #89
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  16. #90
    Administrator RayfieldsWRX's Avatar
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    Okay, so I'm back because I'm curious.

    Disclaimer: The following question is prompted solely from an engineer's curiosity, and in no way should imply that I am questioning the reliability/potency/glamour of the American small block V8, henceforth known as "asbv8". The question shall be rendered purely for conversational fodder, and is not to imply nor should be falsely construed to indicate that the questioner, RayfieldsWRX, henceforth referred to as "Ray", is in any way unAmerican, dislikes American engines, American cheese, or the American way of life.
    Are there hard statistics out there documenting the lifespan of the typical American V8, for example the 350? I ask because I keep seeing anecdotes about 200,000+ miles, yet mine did not go this far. 1970 Chevy Impala, completely stock, meticulously maintained by my grandfather 'til about 110,000 miles, when I inherited it. I drove it for another 5,000 miles or so, and then had cam shaft failure. It was equipped with a 2bbl Rochester carb, so this wasn't what you'd call a "stressed" engine. Granted, I did drive it like a 16-year-old.
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