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This is a discussion on 2010 Hyundai Genesis within the Comparison: WRX vs World forums, part of the Community - Meet other Enthusiasts category; Your out there in my book. To think that just because it's American it's the best is rather strange. You ...

  1. #46
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    Your out there in my book.

    To think that just because it's American it's the best is rather strange.

    You made a strong point to indicate that America has a strong hold on V8's and no one else can touch any of there V8's. We provide several examples and your rebuttle is to bring up the 350 engine which by and far isnt even the best example of small block american v-8's. The 350 is so popular because...well it's was popular. You could get the thing in so many different configurations in just about any mid size GM made throughout the 60's till the 80's.

    With that being said one could make an obvious arguement that just about EVERY V8 chevy is behind the 8 ball so to speak. OHV motors are dated PERIOD. Until you start putting Direct injection, over head cams, and some other nifty features into the engine you arent going to convince me that's it's BEST because it's made by an American company.

    I by no means think that America makes the worst stuff out there...but they arent the leader just because their company decides to headquarter somewhere.
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  3. #47
    Registered User John M's Avatar
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    Here's a little more for the flames

    GM's LSx series of engines does impress in some very important ways: It's the cheapest way to make that much power, it's a lightweight package when considering its output, and it's reliable while doing so. Nobody would argue that they've made the pushrod engine far more capable than anyone would have imagined when all the OHC engines came onto the scene.

    That said, you can bet I'm no Genesis shill. My grandparents have an LS460 (along with a 430) and will not buy another one after seeing the Genesis sedan. I have extensive seat time in the 460 and it's just not worth double the cost of a Genesis except for snob appeal.

    My brother has an LS430 and is going to trade it on a Genesis. His other car is a Mercedes CL65 AMG so it's not like he doesn't know what a real luxury car is. Just a few weeks ago my uncle test drove a Genesis and traded his RX330 for it:



    There are also three Azeras in the family so you can say we're converts. Hyundai is no longer a compromise -- it's the real deal. You hear all the good talk about them because it's true, and usually it's coming from a former skeptic.
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  4. #48
    He simply abides. SD_GR's Avatar
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    One very interesting US-made V8 was that small Al unit from a few decades ago, I think it was marketed as a Buick (?) at the time. It was advanced for its time and it's the V8 that ended up in use by Rover, and smaller firms or even coachworks.

    Then there are advanced cars that used a US V8. The Jensen FF comes to mind, since it was an AWD car with Ferguson driveline and equipped with an ABS system (Dunlop; aero derived). All this in the... 1960s!

    There was a one-off derivative of the FF with a Hemi motor but in retrospect it's not worth dwelling on, since it neither made production nor differs in concept from any other modern car with hemispherical combustion chambers. So the irony IMO is that the most advanced car of its time, a car that would be considered advanced even two full decades after its introduction, used a Chrysler V8 that was primitive compared to the rest of the car.

    EDIT: Saw the pictures/post above by John M. Car looks terrific in red. I've nothing against Hyundai themselves; I considered buying one at one point (an Atos with the 1.0L 4-cyl and 5spd plus A/C -- IMO a brilliant car by Hyundai that is competitive anywhere people live in close quarters).
    Last edited by SD_GR; 09-13-2009 at 08:54 PM.
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  5. #49
    Wrinklechops
    I think it's probably fair to say that although that list I provided of the "10 Best Engines" or whatever was only for the US Market, that covers most all of us. What I mean is, we can sit here and discuss international engines all day long but at the end of the day, we really only have to chose from what is available in the US market. And to me, for so many Ford, GM, and Chrysler engines to make that list is impressive. For me, a measure of an engine's quality if you will is not it's international success - that's more of a marketing strategy I feel. I mean, there's a reason Japan or Korea isn't buying our V8 engines. It's a totally different culture I would argue. The great thing to me about America is that we do have so many options. We can get small econo-turbo engines, diesel trucks, V8 SUVs, great mid-level sedans, etc etc. Everything from the basic Civic to a Mercedes or something and everything in between.
    Last edited by Wrinklechops; 09-14-2009 at 12:03 AM. Reason: grammar/spelling

  6. #50
    Registered User AshyKnuttz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RayfieldsWRX View Post
    The Genesis also can't tow as much as my F350 SuperDuty. What a POS.
    LMAO nobody else found this funny?

  7. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wrinklechops View Post
    I think it's probably fair to say that although that list I provided of the "10 Best Engines" or whatever was only for the US Market, that covers most all of us.
    My next car won't be a Hyundai Atos but it might be a Peugeot 107 or its twin the Citroen C1. Making the same stuff over and over again for decades and relying on an almost built-in domestic fanbase to continue buying that stuff for no apparent reason other than habit and pride works to some extent and some times but it's just not on IMO.

    I mean, there's a reason Japan or Korea isn't buying our V8 engines. It's a totally different culture I would argue.
    Could that not be the precise reason people in the US buy US-made V8 motors, even ones that really aren't world class engines at this point (or any point in recent memory)?

    I love large domestic V8 cars. I absolutely love what people commonly call "Yank Tanks." But what I love about them is how ridiculously wrong everything is, and how in the US I can actually find a big US car like that without having to buy it in black and without having to carry deceased persons to cemeteries -- in the rest of the world, meaning in most of the world, that would not be the case...

    For the record, if I had to name two engine builders that I feel are absolutely world class, top tier leaders over the last few decades: Honda and BMW. Both have had missteps (example from each: V6 3.5L Hondas made of porous(!) alloys so oil literally seeped out and hand-assembled BMW motors for M cars that went boom-clank-clank) but both have consistently built great motors IMO. Neither Hyundai nor IMO Chevrolet are at that level (yet?).

    Quote Originally Posted by AshyKnuttz View Post
    LMAO nobody else found this funny?
    That is very funny!
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  8. #52
    Administrator RayfieldsWRX's Avatar
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    I'm an "America-hater" if I point out nice engines produced in other countries?

    <==first car was a Chevy, powered by a sb350...before Wrinklechops was born...
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  9. #53
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    The list is a joke honsetly. Other counties have had no need to build V8's until recently. Honda has once again scrapped their
    V8 plans. Until some of the other countries started to market V8 trucks there was really no need as the companies were content on their 4 and 6 cylinder motors in their cars.

    But once they've started to make them they are just as competitve if not more then competitve to the US companies.
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  10. #54
    Wrinklechops
    Quote Originally Posted by 302@12psi View Post
    The list is a joke honsetly. Other counties have had no need to build V8's until recently. Honda has once again scrapped their
    V8 plans. Until some of the other countries started to market V8 trucks there was really no need as the companies were content on their 4 and 6 cylinder motors in their cars.

    But once they've started to make them they are just as competitve if not more then competitve to the US companies.

    You can't seriously say that the Japanese trucks are even slightly competitive with the US trucks. Is that what you're saying? I mean, they compete with entry level 1500 trucks from Dodge/Ford/Chevy but beyond that you can kiss the Jap crap trucks goodbye. Any 2500 or above will rock a Tundra or Titan's world any day when it comes to actual truck work, hauling things and not just looking pretty.

  11. #55
    Wrinklechops
    Quote Originally Posted by RayfieldsWRX View Post
    I'm an "America-hater" if I point out nice engines produced in other countries?

    <==first car was a Chevy, powered by a sb350...before Wrinklechops was born...
    All I was saying was why does it matter if every single country on earth produced better engines than we do when at the end of the day all we have to chose from are motors available to the US market basically?

  12. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wrinklechops View Post
    You can't seriously say that the Japanese trucks are even slightly competitive with the US trucks. Is that what you're saying? I mean, they compete with entry level 1500 trucks from Dodge/Ford/Chevy but beyond that you can kiss the Jap crap trucks goodbye. Any 2500 or above will rock a Tundra or Titan's world any day when it comes to actual truck work, hauling things and not just looking pretty.
    You missed the point. You took your engine arguement into a debate now that American made trucks are better then other trucks.

    My reference to trucks was that those are what forced the other companies to start putting together V8's which lead to some of them being used in other vehicles. Without a large truck there was no need for most countries to consider V8's. They did not need them for performance as they were using 4 and 6 cylinder plants with and without forced induction which made them in some cases equally as potent as American V8's.

    Your fanboi-ism is preventing logic from being processed.
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  13. #57
    Administrator RayfieldsWRX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wrinklechops View Post
    all we have to chose from are motors available to the US market basically?
    Nissan, Toyota, Hyundai, Infiniti, and Lexus all market very nice V8 engines here in the U.S.
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  14. #58
    He simply abides. SD_GR's Avatar
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    Unless I'm mistaken, the most successful truck manufacturers in the world are Isuzu, and Daimler (Mercedes, Unimogs, etc.). I think Hyundai actually are in the top five if memory serves.

    All this is no more relevant to the Genesis than the US V8, but I thought it interesting and pertinent to at least one tangent in the discussion.
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  15. #59
    Wrinklechops
    Quote Originally Posted by 302@12psi View Post
    You missed the point. You took your engine arguement into a debate now that American made trucks are better then other trucks.

    My reference to trucks was that those are what forced the other companies to start putting together V8's which lead to some of them being used in other vehicles. Without a large truck there was no need for most countries to consider V8's. They did not need them for performance as they were using 4 and 6 cylinder plants with and without forced induction which made them in some cases equally as potent as American V8's.

    Your fanboi-ism is preventing logic from being processed.
    All I simply stated was that I think the US makes V8s better than most everyone else, historically. It's always been our thing to make big displacement powerful motors. Horsepower per liter was also never our big thing. The reason people in Japan don't buy our V8s (someone pointed out, I forget who) is because they can't! Has anyone seen the price of gas in Japan? Heck, they buy some oil from us in fact. Japan's gas prices are like triple what ours are. Same with Germany. They can't AFFORD to have a V8 engine that gets 13mpg lol. Here's a good example I think: take the STi engine. EJ257. That's our USDM motor. In Japan they don't get to play with 2.5 displacement because they have limits on that. They have to squeeze that same power out of a 2.0 liter engine. They have to build it stronger and rev it higher to achieve the same power we can get from a slightly larger displacement engine. I'm sure the Japanese would love to have the option of being able to do that but they are limited and cannot. Now, I'm sure I am going to invoke all kinds of comments and discussion about how the US shouldn't be making big V8s and we should also adopt smaller engine policies, etc etc, but let's not go there please.

    Fanboy out.

    Quote Originally Posted by RayfieldsWRX View Post
    Nissan, Toyota, Hyundai, Infiniti, and Lexus all market very nice V8 engines here in the U.S.
    Exactly, I agree. *sigh* we've gotten so lost in the miscommunication. When I mentioned that list, that was for ANY engine manufacturer for the US domestic market. Subaru was on there, BMW was on there, Audi/VW was on there, Honda was on there, etc etc. I never said other companies couldn't make good V8s, I just said it really hasn't been their "thing" until recently.

    Quote Originally Posted by SD_GR View Post
    Unless I'm mistaken, the most successful truck manufacturers in the world are Isuzu, and Daimler (Mercedes, Unimogs, etc.).
    Correct. And who has partnerships with these companies to produce great engines here in the US?

    GM and Isuzu are together on the diesel Duramax trucks for Chevy and GMC. Mercedes/Chrysler/Dodge also has the Cummins diesel engine if I'm not mistaken.

    And slightly off topic, a very large percentage of the European auto market are diesel engines from all types of auto manufacturers. There's a reason Subaru's boxer diesel is over in Europe right now but is either not going to come to our shores or is taking a long time to get here. Maybe the boat got lost.

  16. #60
    He simply abides. SD_GR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wrinklechops View Post
    And slightly off topic, a very large percentage of the European auto market are diesel engines from all types of auto manufacturers. There's a reason Subaru's boxer diesel is over in Europe right now but is either not going to come to our shores or is taking a long time to get here. Maybe the boat got lost.
    Sorry but I've lost the plot.

    Assuming the reason isn't really that the boat got lost, what do you feel the reason might be?
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    I lied. I cheated. I bribed men to cover the crimes of other men. I am an accessory to murder. But the most damning thing of all... I think I can live with it. And if I had to do it all over again - I would. Benjamin Sisko
    DISCLAIMER: Opinions expressed are the author's alone and are inherently worthless.

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