2010 Hyundai Genesis

[Wrinklechops]

Yep, Hyundai makes almost 100 more horsepower from their DOHC 4.6 than Ford did with theirs. It's ~70 more horsepower than the current Mustang's 3-valve 4.6 (only 55 more than the 2010 Mustang), plus it still beats it in torque too. The upcoming Equus sedan (larger than the Genesis sedan) will stretch the displacement to 5.0 liters and around 425hp. Domestic auto makers are using at least another liter to reach that mark.

Squeezing that engine into the Genesis coupe would be a real game changer.

I would still much rather have an American V8 Much more potential I think. More aftermarket support and more tried/true/tested history. I'm sure the Hyundai is cheaper though. I am glad to see them doing things other than just econo cars.

[302@12psi]

Fair enough, but you cannot say that the truly powerful NA V8 club belongs to anyone other than the Americans Alright, well, maybe the Germans too...

Um...Infiniti/Nissan has a nasty V8 in their line up as well.

Italy produces some very powerful V8 engines in about a quarter to half the dispalcement as American companies.

I think you fanboi'ism is over ran by facts.

[Wrinklechops]

Um...Infiniti/Nissan has a nasty V8 in their line up as well.

Italy produces some very powerful V8 engines in about a quarter to half the dispalcement as American companies.

I think you fanboi'ism is over ran by facts.

Sorry, I just don't think it's trendy to not ever stick up for or be proud of anything produced in our own country.

What I meant was, by and large, the V8 range has been dominated by the US auto manufacturers. I'm not comparing Ferrari and Lambos and top of the line Infinitis, etc. I meant as a whole, for the daily driver and many other applications, our V8s are great. I mean, you can't deny the tried and true longevity of the famous 350 V8 small block from Chevy. I won't go into it, just look it up.

[CobbNation]

and the true discussion begins...

[SD_GR]

I mean, you can't deny the tried and true longevity of the famous 350 V8 small block from Chevy. I won't go into it, just look it up.

Are you willing to look it up also? What key markets has the Chevy V8 successfully penetrated? What European countries saw sales of their domestic vehicles drop when the US-made V8s came thundering by? How did the Chevy V8 do in the Japanese market? How many Chevy V8s did the Germans buy, or the Italians, or the British? Conversely, how many foreign V8s did the US import?

Since the US has a larger population than the other countries, I'd think it's fair to just look at %s to get a more normalized idea of import/export for each market. How well does the US V8 do vs. the rest of the world?...

EDIT: Thought of one market where the Chevy V8 managed to actually compete, excluding its home market: AU. This could be seen in a number of ways; I'd tend to see it as "the US makers can only compete if they're at home -- but people will still go out and buy an Accord or Camry instead if they're paying attention -- or on neutral ground, where both they and their rivals are on foreign territory" Others might see it as proof the US V8 is a globally significant platform, I don't know.

[Wrinklechops]

Are you willing to look it up also? What key markets has the Chevy V8 successfully penetrated? What European countries saw sales of their domestic vehicles drop when the US-made V8s came thundering by? How did the Chevy V8 do in the Japanese market? How many Chevy V8s did the Germans buy, or the Italians, or the British? Conversely, how many foreign V8s did the US import?

Since the US has a larger population than the other countries, I'd think it's fair to just look at %s to get a more normalized idea of import/export for each market. How well does the US V8 do vs. the rest of the world?...

EDIT: Thought of one market where the Chevy V8 managed to actually compete, excluding its home market: AU. This could be seen in a number of ways; I'd tend to see it as "the US makers can only compete if they're at home -- but people will still go out and buy an Accord or Camry instead if they're paying attention -- or on neutral ground, where both they and their rivals are on foreign territory" Others might see it as proof the US V8 is a globally significant platform, I don't know.

I'm not talking about other countries buying our V8s (even though you forget GM owns many car companies like Holden in Australia). I'm talking about the 350's reputation within our own country.

EDIT: don't forget Opel, also associated with GM which is in Germany which also owns Vauxhall.

[SD_GR]

I'm not talking about other countries buying our V8s (even though you forget GM owns many car companies like Holden in Australia).

Except I named that country and in fact I also gave what I feel is a plausible explanation
:

EDIT: Thought of one market where the Chevy V8 managed to actually compete, excluding its home market: AU.

I'm talking about the 350's reputation within our own country.

That wasn't evident though from this statement {EDIT: Here, I initially wrote "evident" as shown but it was a very poor choice of wording. I'm trying to say it's not substantiated}:

I meant as a whole, for the daily driver and many other applications, our V8s are great. I mean, you can't deny the tried and true longevity of the famous 350 V8 small block from Chevy. I won't go into it, just look it up.

Look what up? That US V8s only sell well in their domestic market, and that once that market lost protection and/or favourable trade balance, people sensibly looked elsewhere? Is tried and true equivalent to sheltered and perhaps antiquated? People decide with their wallets, and about the only place people used those wallets with any sort of regularity to buy a US V8 car was... the US. I don't think those decisions historically were all made with the benefit of a choice (look at sales once choices appeared) or rational thinking (I'm not buying an import, now way, no how etc.).

I think it makes sense to buy products that support a local economy, even if one is not from that country but only happens to live there. For example, I do buy US made products. But I don't buy the argument that the good-ol'e US V8 is great because it must be, because we/they/someone says so. There's no substance there that I can see.

I'd like to see a US-made motor competing head-on globally because after all competition forces improvement and innovation. I don't share what seems to be a widespread but also very localized reverence for the motors though. Not yet in any case. They need to prove themselves first -- maybe exporting some of them to Korea would do the trick... luring away some domestic Hyundai buyers etc.

EDIT: Saw your edit regarding Opel/Vauxhall. Keep in mind that Opel/Vauxhall, during the time of the Corvette ZR-1 in the 1990s, had in their lineup the most powerful car offered by GM. Repeat: the most powerful GM car during the time of the ZR-1 in the 1990s was an Opel or Vauxhall depending on the local market.

I'm tempted to leave it to the reader's imaginations or search skills to figure out which motor was powering the car that was more powerful than what US V8 fans called "The King of the Hill," but the temptation to blurt it out is just greater: the Vauxhall was not a V8 2-door Corvette, and it did not use a US V8; it was a 4-door car with... a 6 cylinder motor.

[Wrinklechops]

Except I named that country and in fact I also gave what I feel is a plausible explanation

That wasn't evident though from this statement {EDIT: Here, I initially wrote "evident" as shown but it was a very poor choice of wording. I'm trying to say it's not substantiated}:

Look what up? That US V8s only sell well in their domestic market, and that once that market lost protection and/or favourable trade balance, people sensibly looked elsewhere? Is tried and true equivalent to sheltered and perhaps antiquated? People decide with their wallets, and about the only place people used those wallets with any sort of regularity to buy a US V8 car was... the US. I don't think those decisions historically were all made with the benefit of a choice (look at sales once choices appeared) or rational thinking (I'm not buying an import, now way, no how etc.).

I think it makes sense to buy products that support a local economy, even if one is not from that country but only happens to live there. For example, I do buy US made products. But I don't buy the argument that the good-ol'e US V8 is great because it must be, because we/they/someone says so. There's no substance there that I can see.

I'd like to see a US-made motor competing head-on globally because after all competition forces improvement and innovation. I don't share what seems to be a widespread but also very localized reverence for the motors though. Not yet in any case. They need to prove themselves first -- maybe exporting some of them to Korea would do the trick... luring away some domestic Hyundai buyers etc.

EDIT: Saw your edit regarding Opel/Vauxhall. Keep in mind that Opel/Vauxhall, during the time of the Corvette ZR-1 in the 1990s, had in their lineup the most powerful car offered by GM. Repeat: the most powerful GM car during the time of the ZR-1 in the 1990s was an Opel or Vauxhall depending on the local market.

I'm tempted to leave it to the reader's imaginations or search skills to figure out which motor was powering the car that was more powerful than what US V8 fans called "The King of the Hill," but the temptation to blurt it out is just greater: the Vauxhall was not a V8 2-door Corvette, and it did not use a US V8; it was a 4-door car with... a 6 cylinder motor.

Thankfully, the Chevy 350 made the list of the "Best Engines" for the 20th Century:

Ward's 10 Best Engines - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Your precious Hyundai 4.6 is on there too

EDIT: Also, going down through the years, note how many different GM, Ford, and Chrysler engines are on that list. I only see Subaru once.

[mycologist]

Thankfully, the Chevy 350 made the list of the "Best Engines" for the 20th Century:

Ward's 10 Best Engines - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Your precious Hyundai 4.6 is on there too

EDIT: Also, going down through the years, note how many different GM, Ford, and Chrysler engines are on that list. I only see Subaru once.

Um, you played right into his hand:

"is an annual list of the ten "best" automobile engines available in the U.S. market"


Although, currently, the LS3 is the most powerful motor ever put into a Vauxhall according to what I read.

[Wrinklechops]

Um, you played right into his hand
"is an annual list of the ten "best" automobile engines available in the U.S. market"

UGH! You're right! *slaps head* and I thought I had something. I'll just give up now. America sucks. We make nothing good for the world. We should just stop now.

[mycologist]

UGH! You're right! *slaps head* and I thought I had something. I'll just give up now. America sucks. We make nothing good for the world. We should just stop now.

Your the only thinking that anyone is saying that, but yeah let's drop that.

[SD_GR]

UGH! You're right! *slaps head* and I thought I had something. I'll just give up now. America sucks. We make nothing good for the world. We should just stop now.

I never said any of that. In fact, I can name -- and I own -- a number of US products that are world-class and can compete anywhere, with anyone. Also, in the past I've advocated buying domestic products, even posting a link with a list of companies that manufacture their goods in the US.

I simply see no reason to revere the US V8, since it has generally failed to compete on those my-place-or-yours, global terms.

It sold because "it's ours;" it sold because "it's available;" it sold because "it's the best;" it sold in the US but when one looks at it from an outsider's perspective it doesn't seem to sell.

In any case we've now strayed well off the Hyundai topic. I don't consider their V8 "precious" as you stated; however, it does exist in at least three forms, and it is being sold in the US (again, I'd applaud GM selling US V8s in Korea). Hyundai are exporting goods and competing well away from home. Instead of relying on tried and proven {SIC} products and/or a steady fanbase they've had to overcome both -- they are newcomers to the large/sporting car segment in a country with a fanbase stacked against them.

I'm not buying a Genesis of any sort. Even if I liked the car, I dislike the shilling and apparently planted "oh wow" stuff online for the last few years; reminds me of Amsoil. This doesn't mean I'm unbiased - but I think the V8/USA thing is biased also.

[Wrinklechops]

Your the only thinking that anyone is saying that, but yeah let's drop that.

That's the sort of sentiment I feel on an overall general basis around here though; that no one really sticks up for US automakers. People here tend to point out weaknesses and bash them quicker than saying anything good it seems, that's all.

On a good note, the SSC Ultimate Aero holds the record for the fastest production car in the world. It's powered by an American V8

SSC Aero - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It doesn't need a 16 cylinder quad turbo AWD setup to do it with either

[Wrinklechops]

I never said any of that. In fact, I can name -- and I own -- a number of US products that are world-class and can compete anywhere, with anyone. Also, in the past I've advocated buying domestic products, even posting a link with a list of companies that manufacture their goods in the US.

I simply see no reason to revere the US V8, since it has generally failed to compete on those my-place-or-yours, global terms.

It sold because "it's ours;" it sold because "it's available;" it sold because "it's the best;" it sold in the US but when one looks at it from an outsider's perspective it doesn't seem to sell.

In any case we've now strayed well off the Hyundai topic. I don't consider their V8 "precious" as you stated; however, it does exist in at least three forms, and it is being sold in the US (again, I'd applaud GM selling US V8s in Korea). Hyundai are exporting goods and competing well away from home. Instead of relying on tried and proven {SIC} products and/or a steady fanbase they've had to overcome both -- they are newcomers to the large/sporting car segment in a country with a fanbase stacked against them.

I'm not buying a Genesis of any sort. Even if I liked the car, I dislike the shilling and apparently planted "oh wow" stuff online for the last few years; reminds me of Amsoil. This doesn't mean I'm unbiased - but I think the V8/USA thing is biased also.

Fair enough. I'll come better prepared and researched to our next debate Sorry to get off topic guys!

[SD_GR]

Fair enough. I'll come better prepared and researched to our next debate Sorry to get off topic guys!

I take blame for the off topic. I ramble!