Anyone test drive one of these vs. Sti ? I saw one the other day V6 turbo badges thrown all over it. Cant believe Im thinking this but giving Sti owners a run for their money ?
-From a wiser, older friend of mine regarding our discussion :thumbup:Some of these people are lost....I've expressed some of why that is so, and some of why their logic is totally flawed in comparing "markets" and engines, and thereby bashing the 350 and other American v8s. I could make a full-time career out of providing supporting evidence to the contrary, but to be honest it's 430 in the morning and I don't have the energy to begin it again tonight. I will say though, that as a fellow automotive enthusiast for the past 27 years (since I was 11, been thinking, reading, talking about nothing but cars, and later working on them, and owned or been closely involved with a car from almost every major manufacturer, in some cases multiple cars), I used to be of that same school of thought (any v8 engine from America was bland, and by nature, probably any engine that was in vehicles that I didn't consider "cutting edge" was crap by virtue, but what changed my mind, against my own will, was the simple reality of it: I have personally seen so many over 300k engines of this engine family, that have been abused, used for towing, not maintained well, and run on dino oil with extended OCIs. Plenty over 400k and 500k, and a few million mile motors. Then there's the extensive and economical selection of aftermarket or stock replacement parts available for these engines (as with many popular American v8s, but especially so in the case of the 350, as it was the most widely used and popular engine of all time, period, in terms of years of production run, and number of new vehicles it was installed in), the ease of maintenance on it, the lack of any major problems with it, and again, its durability. The 350 Chevrolet engine will run on 6psi of idle oil pressure, and not be hurt. Sure, it's a derivative of, and very similar to, an "old design", but so is the wheel, and I don't see a lot of folks complaining about either. When something is good, and it works, simple or not, "large and fuel hungry" or not, it works. And some people have a deep intellectual need to over analyze things, and only pay respect to those things made which appeal to their over-analytical minds, things which are by nature complicated and high-tech, and therefore must be good, must be an improvement in every way. In many cases, if not most, technology, especially when used properly is a good thing. And even the 350 benefited from the addition of various technologies to it over the years, updating it to requirements of the time in which it was being used. But, as with many things in life, and I use the 350 as an example, a timeless design can be made if it's done well at the onset, and that was achieved in this case. In addition, it is pertinent and worth noting that, sometimes the genius is in the simplicity.
And don't forget the cultural and resource differences that allow us to produce these larger engines that use more fuel, and require more iron to manufacture. In other countries, this is not so.
I could go on all night about the many reasons why their logic in those arguments are flawed, but again, I am freaking tired. Between the few conversations we've had about it, I've probably expressed 60 percent of it, although not as succinctly as I would have liked. In any case, I fought giving these or any American engines any personal praise for many years, I was brainwashed into thinking that only engines produced from other cultures and other technologies as it were, could possibly be any good. And to be fair, there are certainly many engines that fit those descriptions that deserve accolades, anyone would be a fool to deny that. But equally, if one goes into the research on these engines with an open mind, and opens their eyes to the facts, and examples that are certainly everywhere, one can't help but come to the conclusion that it is a worthy engine, that served the purposes for which it was designed and the duties asked of it, very well, and better than some folks like this give it credit for. There are very large groups of people who already know the great qualities of these engines, many of which feel that way because they have owned them and have experienced them first hand. Myself included. Again, it is very worth noting that my Pro-American sentiments are not what drove me to conclude that the Chevrolet 350 engine was and is a great motor - if anything, the reverse may be more true.
If one's taste leads them to like only engines that are, if only in a minor way, exotic because they are imported, then there is almost no way to change their mind, and whatever facts you present to them will only be twisted to mean something else, and irrelevant discussions will take place disguised as knowledge or intellectualism. There are people who will never love anything that is considered almost simpleton, very popular, "old fashioned", American (in some cases), or "not cutting edge". And they will always seek out other new things to love, and that's ok. But for those of us who are willing to like an engine or appreciate its qualities for what they are rather than a "status", or "to fill a need for importance", we can see the truth about any given product without those blinders on.
These people have the right to their opinion, and should be thankful they live in a country where we have choices of what we buy. I choose to use mine for the productive good of my country whenever possible, and it just so happens in this case that I'm proud to have accidentally, after resisting it based on social status for so long, grown to like an engine made here in the U.S. My political and social views, however, do not make the 350 a good engine. What does make it a good engine is that it has been so durable, has great low end torque, more available parts at more places than any other engine out there, economical operation, general smoothness, ease of maintenance, extensive knowledge by others in the automotive community with regards to its maintenance and troubleshooting (look no further than your street, it's highly probable that one of your neighbors has owned one or does, and would lend a hand or advice, or even leftover parts...or put an ad on Craigslist: "looking for xxxx part for a 350" and see how many responses you get locally)...the list of reasons to love the engine goes on and on, I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to someone who will never get it (at club wrx)
Just wanted to see if we could get some stories about long lasting Mercedes V8s for example as Myco pointed out.I'm not going to make a science project out of searching for these again...did it before when i was trying to decide for myself if it was a good motor,but here is at least one offhand on the forum....man i could spend hours finding these:
Both of these were my grandpa's vehicles. '97 Z-71 extended cab, Vortec 350. He ran it 330k miles then gave it to my cousin who ran it 20k more and basically gave it away on trade in for a Cobalt she sold a year later. It never burned a drop of oil. The second was his '01-02 1500hd 6.0 4x4. Traded in at 300k miles for a good price (in excellent shape) on his '07 f-250. Didn't burn any oil either. Both engines were not only mega high mileage, but were high-idled for a/c in 100+ degree oil fields every day for hours a day.
(not a 350 My old s10 2.2 5sp had 310k when i traded it, used 5w30 maxlife blend and fram every 3-4k
is a 350: Just posted pics and info on my 89 Caprice hitting 500,000km's (310k miles) on the original engine still running good, with dino 5w30 oil changes ever 3-5k miles.
We run a fleet of Savana 3500's in some of the toughest duty imaginable.
One of our vans has 335,000 miles on it, driven daily at 9000 pounds. 2004 6.0 Gas V8 with oil changed by OLM with Amsoil SSO and Ea filters exclusively.
Our best van ever was wrecked at 400K miles, 2000 5.7 gas V8, and the engine and trans are in my sons friends car now for a year! Still runs perfect and no knocking or oil consumption.
Stepfather has a chevy work box truck with a 350 in it that now has 320k miles on it in PA. No internal engine work and gets changed with dino between 3 and 5 k miles. Still in use
A friend has a 99 Silverado Classic 5.7L with 260,000 miles on M1 10-30 with 15-20,000 mile OCIs.
Also, we've got a '94 Suburban with the 350 TBI that has 260,000 miles. It has been fed a combination of Valvoline dino 10w-30 and HDEO 15w-40 with a current fill of Maxlife 10w-40. Still runs like a top.
And these are just responses to a post i made on the oil forum, for high mileage stories on dino and synthetic, of any car...overwhelmingly many of them were Chevy and many were v8s and 350s in particular.
gotta go more later...
Have seen much higher mileage than these more often than not as well.
Note...additionally, many if not most of the engines I quote with high mileage are in trucks, and consider a few things about that...
trucks are not typically "garage queens"....they are pushed hard, put under load, and used to haul, work, tow, in whatever conditions are present at the time. they are also prone, in many cases, to not being "babied" as far as maintenance either, for a variety of reasons - knucklehead owners, lack of time, etc...
another fact: Chevrolet makes the "longest lasting trucks on the road"... and guess what engine is in most of those trucks, probably 75 percent or more would be accurate: yep, you guessed it, the 350. that being the case, refer to the above operating conditions and maintenance that trucks are typically subjected to, and the former being almost if not totally exclusive to trucks in particular, and you got yourself a winner.
350...for the win!!
Are there hard statistics out there documenting the lifespan of the typical American V8, for example the 350? I ask because I keep seeing anecdotes about 200,000+ miles, yet mine did not go this far. 1970 Chevy Impala, completely stock, meticulously maintained by my grandfather 'til about 110,000 miles, when I inherited it. I drove it for another 5,000 miles or so, and then had cam shaft failure. It was equipped with a 2bbl Rochester carb, so this wasn't what you'd call a "stressed" engine. Granted, I did drive it like a 16-year-old. :tongue:Disclaimer: The following question is prompted solely from an engineer's curiosity, and in no way should imply that I am questioning the reliability/potency/glamour of the American small block V8, henceforth known as "asbv8". The question shall be rendered purely for conversational fodder, and is not to imply nor should be falsely construed to indicate that the questioner, RayfieldsWRX, henceforth referred to as "Ray", is in any way unAmerican, dislikes American engines, American cheese, or the American way of life.
I suppose I don't have "hard statistics" on anything really. I don't suppose anyone else has either. I don't have the time or energy to make a science research project out of proving anything.Okay, so I'm back because I'm curious.
Are there hard statistics out there documenting the lifespan of the typical American V8, for example the 350? I ask because I keep seeing anecdotes about 200,000+ miles, yet mine did not go this far. 1970 Chevy Impala, completely stock, meticulously maintained by my grandfather 'til about 110,000 miles, when I inherited it. I drove it for another 5,000 miles or so, and then had cam shaft failure. It was equipped with a 2bbl Rochester carb, so this wasn't what you'd call a "stressed" engine. Granted, I did drive it like a 16-year-old. :tongue: