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2010 Hyundai Genesis

10K views 98 replies 18 participants last post by  302@12psi 
#1 ·
Anyone test drive one of these vs. Sti ? I saw one the other day V6 turbo badges thrown all over it. Cant believe Im thinking this but giving Sti owners a run for their money ?
 
#65 ·
Mercedes makes their own diesel engines. Dodge uses Cummins in their trucks but the car lines don't share anything with the trucks. The Dodge Sprinter van uses a 2.7 liter Mercedes diesel.

Mercedes makes some big gasoline engines too. Look at any of their current 63-series cars for v8's, not to mention their standard production 500-series sedans and coupes.

My brother's CL65 AMG makes 605hp and 740tq from its 6.0 liter v12. That's big cubes and forced induction, and it's hand-built by one of the 20 AMG craftsmen on the v12 team. I'd call that a HUGE world-class engine. If you can afford the car, you can afford the 10 mpg in town.
 
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#67 · (Edited)
Some of these people are lost....I've expressed some of why that is so, and some of why their logic is totally flawed in comparing "markets" and engines, and thereby bashing the 350 and other American v8s. I could make a full-time career out of providing supporting evidence to the contrary, but to be honest it's 430 in the morning and I don't have the energy to begin it again tonight. I will say though, that as a fellow automotive enthusiast for the past 27 years (since I was 11, been thinking, reading, talking about nothing but cars, and later working on them, and owned or been closely involved with a car from almost every major manufacturer, in some cases multiple cars), I used to be of that same school of thought (any v8 engine from America was bland, and by nature, probably any engine that was in vehicles that I didn't consider "cutting edge" was crap by virtue, but what changed my mind, against my own will, was the simple reality of it: I have personally seen so many over 300k engines of this engine family, that have been abused, used for towing, not maintained well, and run on dino oil with extended OCIs. Plenty over 400k and 500k, and a few million mile motors. Then there's the extensive and economical selection of aftermarket or stock replacement parts available for these engines (as with many popular American v8s, but especially so in the case of the 350, as it was the most widely used and popular engine of all time, period, in terms of years of production run, and number of new vehicles it was installed in), the ease of maintenance on it, the lack of any major problems with it, and again, its durability. The 350 Chevrolet engine will run on 6psi of idle oil pressure, and not be hurt. Sure, it's a derivative of, and very similar to, an "old design", but so is the wheel, and I don't see a lot of folks complaining about either. When something is good, and it works, simple or not, "large and fuel hungry" or not, it works. And some people have a deep intellectual need to over analyze things, and only pay respect to those things made which appeal to their over-analytical minds, things which are by nature complicated and high-tech, and therefore must be good, must be an improvement in every way. In many cases, if not most, technology, especially when used properly is a good thing. And even the 350 benefited from the addition of various technologies to it over the years, updating it to requirements of the time in which it was being used. But, as with many things in life, and I use the 350 as an example, a timeless design can be made if it's done well at the onset, and that was achieved in this case. In addition, it is pertinent and worth noting that, sometimes the genius is in the simplicity.

And don't forget the cultural and resource differences that allow us to produce these larger engines that use more fuel, and require more iron to manufacture. In other countries, this is not so.

I could go on all night about the many reasons why their logic in those arguments are flawed, but again, I am freaking tired. Between the few conversations we've had about it, I've probably expressed 60 percent of it, although not as succinctly as I would have liked. In any case, I fought giving these or any American engines any personal praise for many years, I was brainwashed into thinking that only engines produced from other cultures and other technologies as it were, could possibly be any good. And to be fair, there are certainly many engines that fit those descriptions that deserve accolades, anyone would be a fool to deny that. But equally, if one goes into the research on these engines with an open mind, and opens their eyes to the facts, and examples that are certainly everywhere, one can't help but come to the conclusion that it is a worthy engine, that served the purposes for which it was designed and the duties asked of it, very well, and better than some folks like this give it credit for. There are very large groups of people who already know the great qualities of these engines, many of which feel that way because they have owned them and have experienced them first hand. Myself included. Again, it is very worth noting that my Pro-American sentiments are not what drove me to conclude that the Chevrolet 350 engine was and is a great motor - if anything, the reverse may be more true.

If one's taste leads them to like only engines that are, if only in a minor way, exotic because they are imported, then there is almost no way to change their mind, and whatever facts you present to them will only be twisted to mean something else, and irrelevant discussions will take place disguised as knowledge or intellectualism. There are people who will never love anything that is considered almost simpleton, very popular, "old fashioned", American (in some cases), or "not cutting edge". And they will always seek out other new things to love, and that's ok. But for those of us who are willing to like an engine or appreciate its qualities for what they are rather than a "status", or "to fill a need for importance", we can see the truth about any given product without those blinders on.

These people have the right to their opinion, and should be thankful they live in a country where we have choices of what we buy. I choose to use mine for the productive good of my country whenever possible, and it just so happens in this case that I'm proud to have accidentally, after resisting it based on social status for so long, grown to like an engine made here in the U.S. My political and social views, however, do not make the 350 a good engine. What does make it a good engine is that it has been so durable, has great low end torque, more available parts at more places than any other engine out there, economical operation, general smoothness, ease of maintenance, extensive knowledge by others in the automotive community with regards to its maintenance and troubleshooting (look no further than your street, it's highly probable that one of your neighbors has owned one or does, and would lend a hand or advice, or even leftover parts...or put an ad on Craigslist: "looking for xxxx part for a 350" and see how many responses you get locally)...the list of reasons to love the engine goes on and on, I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to someone who will never get it (at club wrx)
-From a wiser, older friend of mine regarding our discussion :thumbup:
 
#68 ·
Boy, where to start with that pearl of wisdom. First of all, he's right except for one thing -- nobody here ever said American v8's were bad. That's an incorrect assumption based on the fact that this is a WRX message board.

What we did say is that non-American v8's can be GOOD. We don't think an imported engine is automatically exotic. All of this started when it was said that imported v8's can't make the muscle American v8's do. Then we simply listed some that do just that. Somehow that turned us into American-350-hating cavemen.

I own more than one car. It doesn't mean I can't like other engines even if they happen to be imported. My truck is a Dodge Ram and I happen to love the Hemi. My previous truck was a 92 GMC with a TBI 350 and it was great at 15+ years old, and of course I didn't leave it stock either.
 
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#71 · (Edited)
I understand, I just didn't hear any positive reinforcement if you will regarding the muscle V8s we churn out. I never meant to label anyone as a 350 Chevy hating caveman lol. Just discussion. Glad to see you have good taste in vehicles and don't just stick to one manufacturer.

I'll leave you with this: how many of the non-American V8s are going to last to 300,000 miles or more even if they're not abused like many truck V8s for example though? Chevrolet makes some pretty darn strong and long lasting V8s.
 
#69 ·
This is a little like arguments I used to have with the wife... :tongue:

"Dear, I'm sorry for that comment...well...except that...I..never actually..said...that."
 
#73 ·
It's nice that you went out and found an expert to help your failing cause.

No one can comment if some of these new "exotic" (cause their from japan) V8's will last 300k miles or not....cause they havent been around long enough.

Again...you keep jumping your arguement this all started cause you said no one could build a v8 as powerful and as good as an American company. Then you leaped over to no one can build a truck as good as an American company. Then you went onto to say that the American made 350SB is iconic and better then many current motors. Now you proclaim that while the other countries motors can on paper make just as much power none of them are going to last 300k miles but they havent been around long enough to verify that.


With that being said my first true love in the car world is Ford's Mustang. The 302 in my book is a pretty well designed block and it's reputation and making and maintaining awesome street level performance is highly documented.

I'm not a "ricer" fanboi. I also dont hate everything I dont understand.
 
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#77 · (Edited)
For the record....

I just wanted to throw this in the thread too, in case it gets closed (as I feel might be soon).

I'm not going to make a science project out of searching for these again...did it before when i was trying to decide for myself if it was a good motor,but here is at least one offhand on the forum....man i could spend hours finding these:

Both of these were my grandpa's vehicles. '97 Z-71 extended cab, Vortec 350. He ran it 330k miles then gave it to my cousin who ran it 20k more and basically gave it away on trade in for a Cobalt she sold a year later. It never burned a drop of oil. The second was his '01-02 1500hd 6.0 4x4. Traded in at 300k miles for a good price (in excellent shape) on his '07 f-250. Didn't burn any oil either. Both engines were not only mega high mileage, but were high-idled for a/c in 100+ degree oil fields every day for hours a day.


(not a 350:) My old s10 2.2 5sp had 310k when i traded it, used 5w30 maxlife blend and fram every 3-4k

is a 350: Just posted pics and info on my 89 Caprice hitting 500,000km's (310k miles) on the original engine still running good, with dino 5w30 oil changes ever 3-5k miles.

We run a fleet of Savana 3500's in some of the toughest duty imaginable.

One of our vans has 335,000 miles on it, driven daily at 9000 pounds. 2004 6.0 Gas V8 with oil changed by OLM with Amsoil SSO and Ea filters exclusively.

Our best van ever was wrecked at 400K miles, 2000 5.7 gas V8, and the engine and trans are in my sons friends car now for a year! Still runs perfect and no knocking or oil consumption.

Stepfather has a chevy work box truck with a 350 in it that now has 320k miles on it in PA. No internal engine work and gets changed with dino between 3 and 5 k miles. Still in use

A friend has a 99 Silverado Classic 5.7L with 260,000 miles on M1 10-30 with 15-20,000 mile OCIs.

Also, we've got a '94 Suburban with the 350 TBI that has 260,000 miles. It has been fed a combination of Valvoline dino 10w-30 and HDEO 15w-40 with a current fill of Maxlife 10w-40. Still runs like a top.

And these are just responses to a post i made on the oil forum, for high mileage stories on dino and synthetic, of any car...overwhelmingly many of them were Chevy and many were v8s and 350s in particular.

gotta go more later...

Have seen much higher mileage than these more often than not as well.

Note...additionally, many if not most of the engines I quote with high mileage are in trucks, and consider a few things about that...

trucks are not typically "garage queens"....they are pushed hard, put under load, and used to haul, work, tow, in whatever conditions are present at the time. they are also prone, in many cases, to not being "babied" as far as maintenance either, for a variety of reasons - knucklehead owners, lack of time, etc...

another fact: Chevrolet makes the "longest lasting trucks on the road"... and guess what engine is in most of those trucks, probably 75 percent or more would be accurate: yep, you guessed it, the 350. that being the case, refer to the above operating conditions and maintenance that trucks are typically subjected to, and the former being almost if not totally exclusive to trucks in particular, and you got yourself a winner.

350...for the win!!
Just wanted to see if we could get some stories about long lasting Mercedes V8s for example as Myco pointed out.

Also, I just don't have that warm fuzzy feeling that my WRX will last to 300,000 miles or more lol. I know it's not a V8, but regardless, I just don't think it's gonna last that long. I know I'm comparing apples to melons or something, but it's just funny for me to even imagine a 300,000 mile WRX. I love it and wish it would last, but I won't bet large sums of money on it.
 
#78 ·
There are several mildly modded WRX's steadily approaching 200k miles without any major issues. 300k in a probably maintained vehicle now a days isnt unheard of. The issue is typically no one takes care of them in the US regarding repairs.

The reason you will not see a Nissan pulling 15,000 LBS up a hill all day is because they do not have a diesel in their truck line up. Get a Triton ford F250 gas motor to do that everyday and you'll replace the motor well before it's 7th birthday IMHO.
 
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#81 · (Edited)
I'm sure it's possible and I did not deny that a WRX could last to 200,000 miles or more but I think it's rare. I stress the word RARE. I have gone through 3 major engine repairs on my car due to "porosity issues" (Subaru's fancy way of explaining a cracked block or something). If you modify a WRX, I have trouble accepting the fact that it will without question make it to the 300,000 mile mark.

You're right, I should not have said 15,000lbs because that's diesel territory. I could care less about Nissan or Toyota's plans for a diesel because they didn't come to fruition.

The new GMC Sierra can tow over 10,000lbs on a gas engine with 403hp and 417tq. Impressive. Come get some Nissan/Toyota!

Another thing, have you guys heard of the insane oil sludge issues with the Tundras? Just Google it. I'm talking oil sludge buildup at 30,000 miles - enough to kill an engine. Yikes!

YouTube - Toyota Engine Oil Sludge or Toyota Oil Gel Engine Failure

:whoa:

That's some stuff on Toyotas in general, but just Google the Tundra and it'll come up.
 
#79 ·
And the reason you don't see a Tundra pulling a 15-20klb trailer (yet) is because Toyota canceled plans for their 3/4 and 1-ton models when first gas prices and then the economy tanked. They were indeed planning a diesel and all the goodies that go with it.

Just google 'tundra diesel' and you'll see plenty on the subject.

Oh, and for crazy domestic cars, one of my future projects will be a turbo LT1 Cadillac Fleetwood, with decals to put the emphasis on Fleetwood. I'd like to make it look nearly stock on the outside while approaching the 1000 hp level.
 
#80 ·
:rotfl:

I don't enjoy arguing enough to stay with this.

Ray's point of view has not changed:

  • American V8's are great! I owned and worked on one back in the 80's, and the sound they make is awesome! I'd like to own another Chevy V8 some day!!
  • Many foreign V8's are great! My buddy's Tundra has a 4 cam V8 that is freakishly smooth, and makes 381hp/401ft-lbs. The new V8 in the Genesis, by most reports, also seems to be a nicely engineered piece of work!
That's it, my friend. If by your statement ("leave the V8's to the Americans!") you are saying that no one else in the world makes a quality V8, then we disagree, and that's that. If you are not saying that, then we have no disagreement, and bully for us! :)

I like cars. A well-designed engine or other system in a vehicle will impress me regardless of where it's produced.

I'll leave the diesel topic alone; I don't know enough to comment.
 
#82 ·
I agree at this point - I can't read it any more and the circular arguments have run around a few times already.

My points would be

1) Colin likes to debate but isn't very good at it. Make a point and back it up instead of redirecting all the time.

2) American v8s rule the world as long as we don't compare them to anything else in the world.

3) We should accept the standard of a motor that ceased development ages ago and any advancements are like flavoring in coffee (specifically the 350).

4) Specific significant advancements by American companies, although all are already over 15 years old, are mentioned nowhere despite being an obvious case. E.g. the L62 Cadillac V8-6-4 multidisplacement introduction in 1981 and the Northstar DOHC in 1992.

I vote to shut her down unless Spiro or Craig are still enjoying it.
 
#83 · (Edited)
I did enjoy the discussion and I admit it's made me feel more than a little nostalgic. The future is not what it used to be. There are numerous US-based advances in internal combustion design, along with numerous side steps and even miss-steps -- stuff like very early 60s turbo experiments, early Al alloy experiments (though I did touch on that, heh!) etc. I'm still not a US-#1-V8 guy. I don't think anyone's opinion has changed with all this talk, but I'm glad everything stayed civil and outright fun. Thanks, and I'll see everyone in other threads!
 
#90 ·
Okay, so I'm back because I'm curious. :)

Disclaimer: The following question is prompted solely from an engineer's curiosity, and in no way should imply that I am questioning the reliability/potency/glamour of the American small block V8, henceforth known as "asbv8". The question shall be rendered purely for conversational fodder, and is not to imply nor should be falsely construed to indicate that the questioner, RayfieldsWRX, henceforth referred to as "Ray", is in any way unAmerican, dislikes American engines, American cheese, or the American way of life.
Are there hard statistics out there documenting the lifespan of the typical American V8, for example the 350? I ask because I keep seeing anecdotes about 200,000+ miles, yet mine did not go this far. 1970 Chevy Impala, completely stock, meticulously maintained by my grandfather 'til about 110,000 miles, when I inherited it. I drove it for another 5,000 miles or so, and then had cam shaft failure. It was equipped with a 2bbl Rochester carb, so this wasn't what you'd call a "stressed" engine. Granted, I did drive it like a 16-year-old. :tongue:
 
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#91 · (Edited)
Okay, so I'm back because I'm curious. :)



Are there hard statistics out there documenting the lifespan of the typical American V8, for example the 350? I ask because I keep seeing anecdotes about 200,000+ miles, yet mine did not go this far. 1970 Chevy Impala, completely stock, meticulously maintained by my grandfather 'til about 110,000 miles, when I inherited it. I drove it for another 5,000 miles or so, and then had cam shaft failure. It was equipped with a 2bbl Rochester carb, so this wasn't what you'd call a "stressed" engine. Granted, I did drive it like a 16-year-old. :tongue:
I suppose I don't have "hard statistics" on anything really. I don't suppose anyone else has either. I don't have the time or energy to make a science research project out of proving anything.

I said there are many more cars (foreign AND domestic) that don't reach 300,000 miles than those that do. It's just, of the ones I've heard of that are well over 300,000 miles, they seem to overwhelmingly be American V8 engines - more specifically the Chevrolet 350 or some variant of it. And many of these engines in their respective applications are by no means babied whatsoever and are driven rough, pushed hard, and often not well maintained.

There's a bad apple in every bunch. For those of you who know, my WRX hasn't always lived up to the Japanese reliability reputation that Subarus generally hold.

Slightly off topic:

Discussion about engine longevity IWSTI

Good guys giving some love to American cars there that can run 10 seconds in the 1/4 and still be a reliable daily driver.
 
#97 · (Edited)
I refuse to go into personal digs when the other person can not have a logical debate or accept the fact that their idea might be wrong.

And why would I close something down when you repeatedly make yourself look rediculous with your "points".

It's much more fun to leave it open in hope that more of your friends will email you in reference to it. Maybe by the end of all this we'll come complete circle and realize that briggs and stratton lawn mowers are better then any other brand. Go "Made in the USA".


As for your "last word" comment....closing a pointless thread and making a post at the end of it...yup that really does it for me. Makes me feel important.
 
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