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This is a discussion on Audi A4 1.8 "300hp man!" within the Comparison: WRX vs World forums, part of the Community - Meet other Enthusiasts category; Originally Posted by Pavia I agree... The IC though doesn't make sense for adding 20hp. Their GIAC tune doesn't call ...

  1. #46
    Wrinklechops
    Quote Originally Posted by Pavia View Post
    I agree...

    The IC though doesn't make sense for adding 20hp.
    Their GIAC tune doesn't call for an intercooler. I am under the impression that unless you are tuned for it, an intercooler upgrade can sometimes actually hurt your performance. For example, I'm "stage 2", that doesn't call for an IC, but if I go out and get the biggest TMIC or a FMIC I can find, slap it on there with no adjustments to the ECU or boost or whatever whatsoever, aren't I doing myself no favors whatsoever? Sure, maybe cooler air, but a larger pressure drop across a wider surface that you're not tuning correctly for.

    Someone tell me if I'm wrong.

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  3. #47
    Registered User Pavia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John M View Post
    I can't imagine the streetability prospects for a GT3076R being fed by a 1.8 liter. I don't know any car that wouldn't be fast after you fully build the engine and install a huge turbo. After all, even some Hondas manage it! After having a half-dozen turbo DSMs, I decided I liked displacement along with my turbos. I wouldn't have bought a Subaru if they offered only the 2.0.

    I approached my car is a pretty Audi-esque manner. I picked the Legacy so I could have more "car" to go with the drivetrain and at 3400lbs it's no heavyweight either. I now have the luxury of a stout 2.5 liter that'll go perfectly with the FPGreen I'm installing now. I won't win any dyno awards but the power under the curve will be very nice for a fully bolt-on setup.
    A very good approach in my opinion ...
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  4. #48
    UnBanned Sinister's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wrinklechops View Post
    Someone tell me if I'm wrong.
    Aren't you Always??

    (P.s... Do you want me to get Donkey in here?? He will find someway.. ANYway to prove you wrong on anything!! )
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  5. #49
    Wrinklechops
    Quote Originally Posted by Sister View Post
    Aren't you Always??

    (P.s... Do you want me to get Donkey in here?? He will find someway.. ANYway to prove you wrong on anything!! )
    Donkey has turned out correct many more times than I care to admit though. Does he sometimes not thoroughly explain things? Yes. Does he sometimes speak in a language we don't understand? Yes. Is he like Steven Hawkings in this respect? Yes. Hard to prove him wrong. Where you at jack***? lol

  6. #50
    Wrinklechops
    Quote Originally Posted by John M View Post
    I can't imagine the streetability prospects for a GT3076R being fed by a 1.8 liter. I don't know any car that wouldn't be fast after you fully build the engine and install a huge turbo. After all, even some Hondas manage it! After having a half-dozen turbo DSMs, I decided I liked displacement along with my turbos. I wouldn't have bought a Subaru if they offered only the 2.0.

    I approached my car is a pretty Audi-esque manner. I picked the Legacy so I could have more "car" to go with the drivetrain and at 3400lbs it's no heavyweight either. I now have the luxury of a stout 2.5 liter that'll go perfectly with the FPGreen I'm installing now. I won't win any dyno awards but the power under the curve will be very nice for a fully bolt-on setup.

    Which is why I present to you all the possible notion that tuning an A4 to the moon and back has about as much appeal to me as doing the same with a 1.8 liter engine powered Honda Civic, save for the Audi having more class and style.

    If you're set on performance, and you like Audi, get the freaking S4 and call it a day. A slightly modded S4 will stomp any of us Subbies I fear

  7. #51
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    First off, I am new to the subie world but not new to the vw/audi world. I just recently purchased a 2003 wrx because my last car (audi a6 2.7t 6speed) finally bit the dust.
    I can say first hand experience with the 1.8t 20v motor and it is not the best platform to build off of. I used to have a Vw Gti with the same motor as the a4 you guys are talking about. I was running a Garret gt28 series turbo with more money into building that car to handle the boost that I care to think about. It dyno'd @ approx 261whp. It felt fast but it was super hard to put the power to good use due to traction issues. I never raced a subaru wrx but I did race a mitsubishi lancer evo8 and got walked on from the start.

    I also had a vw 2001 passat that was stock except for a
    Neuspeed chip, Cai and catback exhaust. It was a major turd and I think the only thing that I ever raced in it was a few ricerboy civics.

    Now if you start talking about the 2.7t v6 motor then we are playing a totally different ballgame.

  8. #52
    Wrinklechops
    Quote Originally Posted by voiceofonelk3 View Post
    First off, I am new to the subie world but not new to the vw/audi world. I just recently purchased a 2003 wrx because my last car (audi a6 2.7t 6speed) finally bit the dust.
    I can say first hand experience with the 1.8t 20v motor and it is not the best platform to build off of. I used to have a Vw Gti with the same motor as the a4 you guys are talking about. I was running a Garret gt28 series turbo with more money into building that car to handle the boost that I care to think about. It dyno'd @ approx 261whp. It felt fast but it was super hard to put the power to good use due to traction issues. I never raced a subaru wrx but I did race a mitsubishi lancer evo8 and got walked on from the start.

    I also had a vw 2001 passat that was stock except for a
    Neuspeed chip, Cai and catback exhaust. It was a major turd and I think the only thing that I ever raced in it was a few ricerboy civics.

    Now if you start talking about the 2.7t v6 motor then we are playing a totally different ballgame.

    +1, the 2.7 twin turbo v6 that my friend has in his 2000 S4 is a totally different story. With the K04 turbos and supporting mods and a decent tune, he'd be pushing 400-500hp easily, I think. Torque is INSANE on those things too. But we've discussed this many many times throughout this thread.

    Alas, I am glad I know even a heavily modified A4 isn't a match for an equally modified WRX. If I threw a GT28 turbo on my setup, I would push 261whp easily.. hell, I wonder if my stock TD04 pnp, ceramic coated, along with a few other tweaks/mods/and a protune I could push 260whp.

  9. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by voiceofonelk3 View Post
    First off, I am new to the subie world but not new to the vw/audi world. I just recently purchased a 2003 wrx because my last car (audi a6 2.7t 6speed) finally bit the dust.
    I can say first hand experience with the 1.8t 20v motor and it is not the best platform to build off of. I used to have a Vw Gti with the same motor as the a4 you guys are talking about. I was running a Garret gt28 series turbo with more money into building that car to handle the boost that I care to think about. It dyno'd @ approx 261whp. It felt fast but it was super hard to put the power to good use due to traction issues. I never raced a subaru wrx but I did race a mitsubishi lancer evo8 and got walked on from the start.

    I also had a vw 2001 passat that was stock except for a
    Neuspeed chip, Cai and catback exhaust. It was a major turd and I think the only thing that I ever raced in it was a few ricerboy civics.

    Now if you start talking about the 2.7t v6 motor then we are playing a totally different ballgame.

    You used a GT28 eliminator which is a joke. Not even a true Garrett but a hybrid designed to fit in a KKK exhaust housing. Not to mention that a FWD platform to begin with is horrible.

    Had you used a true GT2871r the results would've been much closer to 350whp, unfortunately for that kind of output you need forged rods.

    Umm, what "money" did you put to achieve a measly 260whp? Thats a bolt on turbo needing nothing more than bigger injectors, maf and tune. (And judging from your results you used one ****ty tune, as there are people who made 260whp on a STOCK TURBO on a FWD 06B transverse 1.8t platform!) (Yes, theres a big difference between transverse and longitudinal 1.8t's.)

    VWvortex Forums: My Stock turbo tuning guide


    As far as I'm concerned, the motor has huge potential.
    You can conveniently check that out here.

    B5 A4 Projects & Builds - Audizine Forums

  10. #54
    Wrinklechops
    Quote Originally Posted by Militant-Grunt View Post

    As far as I'm concerned, the motor has huge potential.
    You can conveniently check that out here.

    B5 A4 Projects & Builds - Audizine Forums

    I guess it all comes down to displacement, in the end, doesn't it?

    The 1.8 we are discussing will never beat the 02-05 WRX's 2.0 with equal mods/money spent on both.

    2.0 > 1.8

    But then, the 06+ WRX's 2.5 with the same mods/money will stomp the 02-05's 2.0.

    2.5 > 2.0

    Same said for an STi with the 2.5, obviously.

    Then we come to for example, that 2.7 twin turbo B5 Audi S4 from earlier 2000+ years.

    2.7 > 2.5


    And so the story goes...

  11. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wrinklechops View Post
    I guess it all comes down to displacement, in the end, doesn't it?

    The 1.8 we are discussing will never beat the 02-05 WRX's 2.0 with equal mods/money spent on both.

    2.0 > 1.8

    But then, the 06+ WRX's 2.5 with the same mods/money will stomp the 02-05's 2.0.

    2.5 > 2.0

    Same said for an STi with the 2.5, obviously.

    Then we come to for example, that 2.7 twin turbo B5 Audi S4 from earlier 2000+ years.

    2.7 > 2.5


    And so the story goes...

    Displacement has nothing to do with it, you guys should especially know that seeing that most 2.0 4G63 Evo motors **** all over you guys

  12. #56
    Wrinklechops
    Quote Originally Posted by Militant-Grunt View Post
    Displacement has nothing to do with it, you guys should especially know that seeing that most 2.0 4G63 Evo motors **** all over you guys
    I wouldn't say displacement has NOTHING to do with it. Seriously, nothing? A 2.5 won't walk all over a 2.0, 1.8, never? A twin turbo 2.7 won't run circles around a 2.5 or 2.0 ever? Hmm.

    Evo's use different compression than we do, besides being non-boxer configurations. An equally modded Evo and STi are about even, I think. Someone correct me if I'm wrong. There's a reason many 2.0 Evo's get 2.3 AMS blocks....stroker kits, bored out, etc etc

  13. #57
    Registered User wrx0131's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wrinklechops View Post
    I wouldn't say displacement has NOTHING to do with it. Seriously, nothing? A 2.5 won't walk all over a 2.0, 1.8, never? A twin turbo 2.7 won't run circles around a 2.5 or 2.0 ever? Hmm.

    Evo's use different compression than we do, besides being non-boxer configurations. An equally modded Evo and STi are about even, I think. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
    i believe an evo puts down a little more power....they have stronger motors

    You cant really say displacement doesnt mean anything. it really depends on the motor you are talking about. An Evos 2.0 and a wrx's 2.0 are not the same...
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  14. #58
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    [QUOTE=Militant-Grunt;2477511]You used a GT28 eliminator which is a joke. Not even a true Garrett but a hybrid designed to fit in a KKK exhaust housing. Not to mention that a FWD platform to begin with is horrible.

    Had you used a true GT2871r the results would've been much closer to 350whp, unfortunately for that kind of output you need forged rods.

    Umm, what "money" did you put to achieve a measly 260whp? Thats a bolt on turbo needing nothing more than bigger injectors, maf and tune. (And judging from your results you used one ****ty tune, as there are people who made 260whp on a STOCK TURBO on a FWD 06B transverse 1.8t platform!) (Yes, theres a big difference between transverse and longitudinal 1.8t's.)

    Yeah whatever, I used a true garret GT2860rs. And what makes you think I would use the stock exhaust manifold? I will admit that I could have perfected my tune for peek performance but the car was my daily driver at the time. I ran the setup on premium pump gas. I do not see why everyone thinks 260whp is "measly"? Do you guys know what these dyno at stock? This is nearly a 100% increase in horsepower over stock.

  15. #59
    Wrinklechops
    Quote Originally Posted by voiceofonelk3 View Post
    I do not see why everyone thinks 260whp is "measly"? Do you guys know what these dyno at stock? This is nearly a 100% increase in horsepower over stock.
    +1 and still not good enough to beat a WRX

  16. #60
    Wrinklechops
    Quote Originally Posted by wrx0131 View Post
    i believe an evo puts down a little more power....they have stronger motors

    You cant really say displacement doesnt mean anything. it really depends on the motor you are talking about. An Evos 2.0 and a wrx's 2.0 are not the same...

    I agree. Apples and oranges, kinda. A JDM 2.0 for us might be a different story. But when it comes to built motors, I can never find a strong 2.0 block...they're all 2.5... which leads me to believe a built 2.5 block would be stronger than the Evo's 2.0 block. I've seen many many Evo guys at the track destroy their stock internals pretty quick once they get up there on the power chart....

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