05 STI vs WS6 TA - Page 2
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This is a discussion on 05 STI vs WS6 TA within the Comparison: WRX vs World forums, part of the Community - Meet other Enthusiasts category; Originally Posted by 302@12psi Probably because F1 banned AWD? hehe...no kidding. It's nice to see this discussion pop up every ...

  1. #16
    Moderator YBNormal07's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 302@12psi View Post
    Probably because F1 banned AWD?
    hehe...no kidding. It's nice to see this discussion pop up every now and then.

    To me it's just common sense. Having all 4 wheels power you, regardless of the application (straight line or curves) allows an overall greater contact patch for the driven wheels. Sure there is a trade off with weight and a bit of a loss of adhesion due to dual functionality of the front wheels both driving and turning, but in this day and age of computer controlled everything, this is more than offset.

    Point of fact...AWD rally car vs RWD rally car. Same power levels, suspension, driver, etc. Which will win?

    Same holds for every other race sport (with the obvious exception for high speed runs like at Bonneville, and even then it has it's points).
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  3. #17
    Wrinklechops
    Quote Originally Posted by 302@12psi View Post
    Probably because F1 banned AWD?
    AWD loses more power in the drive train than RWD, it's also heavier. RWD is more simple and plain. Simple is what works best in racing. They each have their advantages. The Skylines AWD system is among the best in the world and it shows. But it's also kinda heavy.....

  4. #18
    Wrinklechops
    Quote Originally Posted by YBNormal07 View Post
    hehe...no kidding. It's nice to see this discussion pop up every now and then.

    To me it's just common sense. Having all 4 wheels power you, regardless of the application (straight line or curves) allows an overall greater contact patch for the driven wheels. Sure there is a trade off with weight and a bit of a loss of adhesion due to dual functionality of the front wheels both driving and turning, but in this day and age of computer controlled everything, this is more than offset.

    Point of fact...AWD rally car vs RWD rally car. Same power levels, suspension, driver, etc. Which will win?

    Same holds for every other race sport (with the obvious exception for high speed runs like at Bonneville, and even then it has it's points).
    I beg to differ my friend; the same does NOT hold true in every other race sport. In rally racing, of course AWD will be superior because you're on slippery surfaces and need all the traction you can get. No brainer.

    All racing is based on RWD, tracking racing, anyway. Not to mention RWD cars tend to be lighter because they only need 2 differentials whereas AWD cars tend to need 3, among other things...

    I think nowadays people really overrate AWD, as if they're going to fly off the road at every turn without it.

  5. #19
    Wrinklechops

    check this out...

    any of you guys watch "Top Gear"? I love it. If you're familiar with it, here's something to consider... their "tame racing driver" has these times with these cars around their race track. Look how far you have to scroll down before you find an AWD car, although it is our arch-nemesis the Evo...


    Ferrari F60 Enzo - 1.19.0
    Porsche Carerra GT - 1.19.8
    Mercedes McLaren SLR - 1.20.9
    Ford GT - 1.21.9
    Ferrari 360 CS - 1.22.3
    Porsche GT3 RS - 1.22.3
    Murcielago - 1.23.7
    Zonda - 1.23.8
    Koenigsegg - 1.23.9
    Noble - 1.25.0
    Gallardo - 1.25.8 (wet track)
    Lotus Exige - 1.26.4 (slick tires on wet Track )
    Chevrolet Corvette - 1.26.8
    Porsche 911 GT3 - 1.27.2 (wet track)
    TVR 350c - 1.27.5
    BMW M3 CSL - 1.28.0 (wet track)
    Dodge Viper SRT-10 - 1.28.5
    MG SV - 1.28.6
    Porsche 911 Carrera S - 1.28.9 (very wet)
    Mitsubishi Evo VIII - 1.28.9
    BMW Alpine Z8 - 1.29.0
    Mercedes CL65 - 1.29
    Alfa 3.7 GTA - 1.30.0
    Subaru Impreza STI - 1.30.1
    Aston Martin DB7 GT - 1.30.4
    Audi S4 - 1.30.9
    Porsche 911 turbo - 1.31.0
    Vauxhall VX 220 turbo - 1.31.3
    Honda NSX Type R - 1.31.6 (very wet)
    BMW M3 - 1.31.8
    Nissan 350Z - 1.31.8
    Mazda RX8 - 1.31.8
    Ford Focus RS - 1.32.2
    Lotus Esprit V8 - 1.32.5
    Audi TT V6 - 1.32.7
    MG ZT - 1.33
    Noble - 1.33.1
    Mercedes SL 55 AMG - 1.33.2
    Volkswagen Golf R32 - 1.33.2
    Volvo S60R - 1.35.0
    Ferrari 575 - 1.35.2
    Alfa 147 GTA - 1.35.6
    Lotus Elise - 1.35.6
    Aston Martin Vanquish - 1.36.2
    Renault Clio v6 - 1.36.2
    Honda Civic Type R - 1.36.5
    Saab 95 hot aero - 1.37.9
    Mazzer - 1.38.0
    Bowler Wildcat - 1.39.4
    Bentley Arnarge - 1.40.8
    Overfinch - 1.44.0



    Looks like RWD wins again.
    Last edited by Wrinklechops; 03-03-2009 at 01:42 PM. Reason: oops

  6. #20
    Master Baiter EJ257's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lundholm08
    any of you guys watch "Top Gear"? I love it. If you're familiar with it, here's something to consider... their "tame racing driver" has these times with these cars around their race track. Look how far you have to scroll down before you find an AWD car, although it is our arch-nemesis the Evo..
    Difference in power?
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  7. #21
    Wrinklechops
    Quote Originally Posted by idipskoalmint View Post
    Difference in power?
    Dude that's just the point: high powered performance cars aren't AWD. Why do you suppose?

  8. #22
    Registered User 2004NeonSRT4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lundholm08 View Post
    any of you guys watch "Top Gear"? I love it. If you're familiar with it, here's something to consider... their "tame racing driver" has these times with these cars around their race track. Look how far you have to scroll down before you find an AWD car, although it is our arch-nemesis the Evo...


    Looks like RWD wins again.
    get an updated list that one is way old. the veyron which is awd is currently 5th. and it also weighs twice as much as every car in the top 4 spots. awd on any dot tire wins every time. end thread.

    Top Gear Test Track - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    spots 5, 10, 13 and 15 are all awd cars. veyron is mistyped a 4 should be a 1:17XX
    Last edited by 2004NeonSRT4; 03-03-2009 at 05:46 PM.
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  9. #23
    Wrinklechops
    Quote Originally Posted by 2004NeonSRT4 View Post
    get an updated list that one is way old. the veyron which is awd is currently 5th. and it also weighs twice as much as every car in the top 4 spots. awd on any dot tire wins every time. end thread.

    Top Gear Test Track - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    spots 5, 10, 13 and 15 are all awd cars. veyron is mistyped a 4 should be a 1:17XX
    For sure no doubt, and I should have checked to make sure it was fully updated before I posted it. I wondered why I didn't see the GT-R from Nissan on there anywhere.

    I don't question the performance of AWD, but I think we can all agree that prior to recent years (Veyron-type) and even still today (top 4 spots are held by RWD cars) that RWD is very good at getting cars around tracks fast and top speed. I think we can also agree that none of us will ever own half the cars on that list, and if you look at the ones that are affordable, most are RWD.

    The Veyron is an amazing engineering feat, but it has quickly been surpassed as "the fastest" car around. I know this has naught to do with our track discussion, but consider this American machine:

    SSC Aero - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Mid engine, RWD. Fastest production car on the planet today. 257mph.

  10. #24
    Wrinklechops
    Advantages of RWD:

    * Even weight distribution The layout of a rear wheel drive car is much closer to an even fore and aft weight distribution than a front or all-wheel drive car, as more of the engine can lie between the front and rear wheels (in the case of a mid engine layout, the entire engine), and the transmission is moved much farther back.
    * Weight transfer during acceleration During heavy acceleration, weight is placed on the rear, or driving wheels, which improves traction.
    * No torque steer (unless it's an all wheel steer with an offset differential).
    * Steering radius As no complicated drive shaft joints are required at the front wheels, it is possible to turn them further than would be possible using front wheel drive, resulting in a smaller steering radius for a given wheelbase.
    * Better handling in dry conditions the more even weight distribution and weight transfer improve the handling of the car. The front and rear tires are placed under more even loads, which allows for more grip while cornering.

  11. #25
    Administrator RayfieldsWRX's Avatar
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    The RWD versus AWD thing comes down to personal preference and need. There are some fine examples of "high hp cars" with AWD, Porsche's 911 Turbo, the GT-R, Lambo's higher end Gallardo, etc..and some people just love the feel and "security" of AWD. Obviously our brethren in the snow belt would prefer it.

    Having said all of that, my next pure sports car is likely to be a RWD vehicle. I miss the driving dynamics..
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  12. #26
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    Given the option of a high end car in RWD vs AWD is going to be a preference. I enjoy RWD for it's "fun" factor. If serious performance was an issue I'd option for AWD. Not being hindered severally by rain/snow goes a long way.

    Watch some Grand-Am races where the cars and weighted down to be as equal as possible. You can not void out the driver skill factor, but any time it rains Subaru, Audi, and Volvo when they were in it put a serious hurting on the field. All cars have been in the top 3 on dry pavement as well.
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  13. #27
    Wrinklechops
    Quote Originally Posted by obp05mtx View Post
    Finally ran a TA today and got 2 good runs. 1st was a 20 roll and got him by 1 1/2. Second run was a dig and it was about 1 bus. Now I'm not sure what mods the TA had but it nice to flex a little 2.5 muscle. AWD FTW
    just be glad it wasn't this TA:

    YouTube - Burt Reynolds Edition Trans Am BAN3 at the DYNO

    lol

  14. #28
    Registered User obp05mtx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lundholm08 View Post
    First off I didn't claim this blowout victory over some super modded Trans Am, so don't get your point of this video.Second like a couple of post's have already said it's all preference, I prefer awd and on that day it out ran a rwd TA

  15. #29
    Wrinklechops
    Quote Originally Posted by obp05mtx View Post
    First off I didn't claim this blowout victory over some super modded Trans Am, so don't get your point of this video.Second like a couple of post's have already said it's all preference, I prefer awd and on that day it out ran a rwd TA
    The point of the video was purely a joke dude. Do you honestly think I thought you beat a BAN3 Trans Am with well over 600hp? I too enjoy AWD, hence the reason I have a WRX. Just don't question RWD's ability to smoke AWD in a launch from a dead stop. The Trans Am from 98-02 with the LS1 5.7 v8 (the WS6 you were referring to) can do 0-60 in 4.2-4.8 seconds. Pretty impressive for stock, if you ask me.

    I forgot to add that the STi weighs 3296lbs and the TA weighs 3440lbs. So the 5.7 v8 weighs 144lbs more than the STi? That's a lightweight v8, and has mucho potential for torque and hp.

    American muscle baby. Some people need to stop watching Fast and the Furious and playing Need for Speed so much.
    Last edited by Wrinklechops; 03-04-2009 at 03:15 PM. Reason: weight issue

  16. #30
    Wrinklechops
    Quote Originally Posted by DarkShocker WRX View Post
    rear wheel drive and it weighs more and they only run 13.6 stock
    It weighs 144lbs more, which isn't much more when you consider the engine is almost triple the displacement of the STi.

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