STI vs 135i?

[Nat]

You know, for the first 100 years cars existed, almost every single one was RWD and people drove them in the snow just fine. It's not the car that's the problem, it's the driver.

I grew up in Colorado with RWD cars and I remember having to chain up a lot. Even then, I'd still have to get out and push the car while my dad rocked it back and forth trying to get unstuck.

Now in Oregon, if the passes are covered in snow and the chain law is in effect (happens often), you can either drive your AWD with snowflake/mountain emblem tires just fine or you can get out, chain up, creep over the pass at 25mph, and hope you don't lose your chains somewhere along the way. Sometimes the chains loosen up and beat the snot out of your car too. No thanks.

[Nat]

Yeah, maybe if you live in Canadia or or a cold mountainous region. For the rest of the 99.9% of us living in areas that don't have continual snow for days on end and have cell phones that can call a relative or police to pick you up when stranded any type of platform is fine... AWD is just a luxury.

Do you guys remember this story from a couple of years ago? This family had an AWD, a cell phone, searchers, and the dad still died. Technology can't always make up for bad choices, hey?

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/10/we.../10basics.html

[DTR rex]

Do you guys remember this story from a couple of years ago? This family had an AWD, a cell phone, searchers, and the dad still died. Technology can't always make up for bad choices, hey?

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/10/we.../10basics.html

I guess you didn't read my post, huh?

It's one thing if you're driving through the rockies in winter, northern canada, or somewhere along the portland/washington mountains..... but for the rest of us (most of the entire country) AWD is a luxury and NOT necessity.

I love my awd, but I don't require it.

[SonicWagon]

I guess you didn't read my post, huh?

It's one thing if you're driving through the rockies in winter, northern canada, or somewhere along the portland/washington mountains..... but for the rest of us (most of the entire country) AWD is a luxury and NOT necessity.

I love my awd, but I don't require it.

funny but chicago is one of the cities where people die in storms even today, i was talking about back in the day because that is what teflon referenced. Pre cell phones when a storm comes in cars got stuck...

[Nat]

I guess you didn't read my post, huh?

It's one thing if you're driving through the rockies in winter, northern canada, or somewhere along the portland/washington mountains..... but for the rest of us (most of the entire country) AWD is a luxury and NOT necessity.

I love my awd, but I don't require it.

I wasn't responding to your post specifically; I was bringing up that story from 2006 since it pertains to the conversation.

[SonicWagon]

Sounds just fine to me.
Darwinism thinning out the herd ftw!

its fine they die, i agree, but the FACT would remain that they died because their car got stuck....


and that means the cars didn't handle the Snow "JUST FINE"....

[scenicroadways]

AWD is nice to have in Chicago, but I got by with a RWD Miata for 7 years somehow. They usually go insane with the salt even before the snow starts. I hate that salt. Takes the adventure out of life.

[Nat]

AWD is nice to have in Chicago, but I got by with a RWD Miata for 7 years somehow. They usually go insane with the salt even before the snow starts. I hate that salt. Takes the adventure out of life.

I do see some RWD cars during the winter here, so they can get around but they're typically nursing their way along on the ice or they're chained up. Or piled up into something. I'd estimate at least 75% of the cars on the streets during winter are AWD or 4WD though, as it gets exceptionally slick here. It's fairly hilly too so a lot of the AWD's even use studded snows on all fours.

[scenicroadways]

I do see some RWD cars during the winter here, so they can get around but they're typically nursing their way along on the ice or they're chained up. Or piled up into something. I'd estimate at least 75% of the cars on the streets during winter are AWD or 4WD though, as it gets exceptionally slick here. It's fairly hilly too so a lot of the AWD's even use studded snows on all fours.

Yea, I can imagine the hills would REALLY make a difference. There are barely any hills in Chicago.

[Nat]

Yea, I can imagine the hills would REALLY make a difference. There are barely any hills in Chicago.

Yeah, I have in-laws in Chicago. They're very mid-western.

Speaking of Chicago, I recently finished this book:

http://www.amazon.com/Gang-Leader-Da.../dp/1594201501

The author spent several years moving among one of the larger gangs in one of the Projects in Chicago. Fairly interesting stuff. Anyone else read it?

[DTR rex]

funny but chicago is one of the cities where people die in storms even today, i was talking about back in the day because that is what teflon referenced. Pre cell phones when a storm comes in cars got stuck...

I don't deny it. But of the very small amount of people that die in a snow storm in Chicago because their car got stuck, how many would have been able to get "unstuck" with awd.

You guys seem to be missing my point. I've owned RWD, FWD, and AWD. I don't dismiss the ability of AWD (I bought a Subaru for a reason) but some of you make it seem as if AWD saves lives in winter everywhere and it's stupid not to have it.
Sure it helps... in some situations it helps a lot and very well "might" mean the different between being stuck and not being stuck, but 99.99% of the time it doesn't create life/death scenarios and people have gotten by just fine for a long-long time without awd.

I will say it again.... Unless you live on the side of a mountain or an especially snowy/dangerous area awd is simply a luxury and NOT a necessity.

[SonicWagon]

I'm not missing any point, i simply don't think people drove in the snow just fine with the cars of the 70s. i am getting pulled into a different disagreement i am not talking about any mountains.

also the salt can run out...It did in cleveland last week...

im out....

[Nat]

I don't deny it. But of the very small amount of people that die in a snow storm in Chicago because their car got stuck, how many would have been able to get "unstuck" with awd.

You guys seem to be missing my point. I've owned RWD, FWD, and AWD. I don't dismiss the ability of AWD (I bought a Subaru for a reason) but some of you make it seem as if AWD saves lives in winter everywhere and it's stupid not to have it.
Sure it helps... in some situations it helps a lot and very well "might" mean the different between being stuck and not being stuck, but 99.99% of the time it doesn't create life/death scenarios and people have gotten by just fine for a long-long time without awd.

I will say it again.... Unless you live on the side of a mountain or an especially snowy/dangerous area awd is simply a luxury and NOT a necessity.

I used the term "handicapped."

See:

Until it comes with AWD I won't even consider the BMW. It'd be totally handicapped during the winter.

People dying is an extreme scenario. People getting into fender-benders might be more worthwhile to look at.

Even spinning out on ice at an intersection with RWD and needing a push from others to get going is worth considering the benefits of AWD. In that case no one dies, no one spends the night out in the cold, but you f-up traffic for a bit and need people to jump out of their own car to push you. What a pain.

[DTR rex]

I'm not missing any point, i simply don't think people drove in the snow just fine with the cars of the 70s. i am getting pulled into a different disagreement i am not talking about any mountains.

also the salt can run out...It did in cleveland last week...

im out....

Chicago ran out last week too.

We have been borrowing from Milwaukee all week.

I didn't live during the 70's so I can't make an accurate assessment of that claim. So until I can talk to a few older people, I digress.

[Timdog1650]

I think the point is that owning a RWD car is basically a death sentence.