92 vr4 vs. 07 rex
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This is a discussion on 92 vr4 vs. 07 rex within the Comparison: WRX vs World forums, part of the Community - Meet other Enthusiasts category; this may have been addressed already but i couldn't really find what i was looking for... my good friend has ...

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    Registered User natedawg9640's Avatar
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    92 vr4 vs. 07 rex

    this may have been addressed already but i couldn't really find what i was looking for...

    my good friend has always liked his cars... as do all of us... he started with a crappy( but nice at the time) z24... then he went got a 90's something camaro... meh... then he bought his first love.. a silver 92 Vr-4. custom dual stainless 3' off headers, intake, boost controller, and a short throw... he ran that till he went back to his z24 which i then helped him boost. fun for a while but he decided to get rid of it and bought an 02 329 ci... put a couple bolt ons on and finally accepted that there was no way to mod it worth while unless he wanted to cough up cash to boost that... decided against it and went out the other day and re-bought his first love... lol. (not the same one though) he found another 92' 3kgt vr-4. over paid for it for sure but i must say it's a fine car. 70k miles on it but it's never seen snow... was bought by a rich guy for a sunday car for his wife... they sold it to another older couple who put 3000 miles on it in the last 3 years... there are pin head sized rust spots on the exhaust pipe... that's it. this brings me to my whole point... he bought this car to mod and drive it... i have a bone stock 07 wrx... his DP, CB, intake, and short throw are in the mail... what chance do i stand running against him before he puts on the mods?
    yup

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    Registered User Micah's Avatar
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    1993 Mitsubishi 3000GT VR-4 5.3 14.0
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    Registered User John M's Avatar
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    Stock, it'll be close on the bottom end and he'll pull a little up top, with 98-100 mph traps being the norm. The 92 has a 5spd and while it rocks to have 2nd gear till 90 mph, it also means when the boost falls off up top he'll have to go longer at lower psi. The 94+ 6spd models make the tiny turbos less of a detriment.

    There is a very good chance that there are quite a few potential performance killers in a car that old, most notably a leaky o-ring on the rear turbo output flange. That should be a priority replacement. Next he should make sure the fuel pump dual-voltage setup is still healthy; bypass instructions for it are on the Stealth link in my sig. New NGK copper plugs and plug wires should also be on deck. Finally, if there isn't a reciept showing a timing belt replacement, he must do that asap or he risks grenading the whole thing.

    The catback is a waste on stock turbos. It's been proven to be no restriction until you pass 115 mph traps. Once you switch to a catless downpipe, the stock loud/quiet switch makes a huge difference in decibels and is a really neat thing to have.

    Just the downpipe, fuel relay bypass, and a MBC at 18 psi will put him into the 12s if the clutch is up to par. The car in my sig was on stock turbos, stock cat-back, stock fuel pump, and full curb weight - over 4000 lbs with me in it.
    John M
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    The 92 VR4 second gear actually went to 80mph. I agree that it will be close on the bottom end but once he hits 3rd gear, he will pull away. I had a 92 VR4 in 95-97. I loved it and miss it but I will take a modded rex any day over the mitsu.

    Quote Originally Posted by John M View Post
    Stock, it'll be close on the bottom end and he'll pull a little up top, with 98-100 mph traps being the norm. The 92 has a 5spd and while it rocks to have 2nd gear till 90 mph, it also means when the boost falls off up top he'll have to go longer at lower psi. The 94+ 6spd models make the tiny turbos less of a detriment.

    There is a very good chance that there are quite a few potential performance killers in a car that old, most notably a leaky o-ring on the rear turbo output flange. That should be a priority replacement. Next he should make sure the fuel pump dual-voltage setup is still healthy; bypass instructions for it are on the Stealth link in my sig. New NGK copper plugs and plug wires should also be on deck. Finally, if there isn't a reciept showing a timing belt replacement, he must do that asap or he risks grenading the whole thing.

    The catback is a waste on stock turbos. It's been proven to be no restriction until you pass 115 mph traps. Once you switch to a catless downpipe, the stock loud/quiet switch makes a huge difference in decibels and is a really neat thing to have.

    Just the downpipe, fuel relay bypass, and a MBC at 18 psi will put him into the 12s if the clutch is up to par. The car in my sig was on stock turbos, stock cat-back, stock fuel pump, and full curb weight - over 4000 lbs with me in it.
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    Registered User John M's Avatar
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    If you take second to 7000 rpm, that's 90 mph -- and that's after the corrected speedo drive gear is installed. The early 5spd cars had a speedometer calibration that was fixed in 93. I owned a 92 Stealth TT as well - see crappy pics here and better pics here where I totaled it. Third was good for 120. They say the 5spd is more desirable once you go make big power because it means less shifting and more WOT. My car ran 12.92 @ 105 with a downpipe and MBC before meeting its demise.

    I've never owned a WRX but I can't see how I could prefer it over the 3S platform. The power is absurdly easy to make and for all the stereotypes about its weight, the car will perform extremely well. Don't make me start magazine racing to prove it! (Yes, I keep a notpad document of article links ready to paste for the doubters ) The 3S goes faster, stops faster, and handles better.

    I sold the car because it was too easy to get into trouble with the law. My Legacy has just as much potential but nobody else knows it, keeping temptation away from me as much as possible. I plan to buy a Spyder VR4 one day, just because I liked them so much when they were new.
    John M
    2000 Lincoln Continental - slow DD with the DOHC 4.6 and a Superchips tune
    1992 Lexus SC400 - slow resto project
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    Administrator RayfieldsWRX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John M View Post
    I've never owned a WRX but I can't see how I could prefer it over the 3S platform. The power is absurdly easy to make and for all the stereotypes about its weight, the car will perform extremely well. Don't make me start magazine racing to prove it! (Yes, I keep a notpad document of article links ready to paste for the doubters ) The 3S goes faster, stops faster, and handles better.
    So I've always been curious, John. You've never owned a WRX, don't seem to want one or even particularly like them, and seem to spend most if not all of your energy making sure we all acknowledge the greatness of the VR-4/Stealth. What originally brought you to ClubWRX? Did you have a brief period where you considered getting one? Do you enjoy our sparkling personalities?
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    Registered User John M's Avatar
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    When I first got here, I had a few friends with WRXs who didn't know where to begin with their mods and I wanted to be sure I was steering them in the right direction - all my experience was with Mitsubishi. Once I got on the site I saw it was one of the few places where people were truly knowledgable about all vehicles and not just the one the forum was for. That's what kept me around.

    It was also this community, far more so than the soap opera that is NASIOC, that led me to consider the Legacy when it came out. My real love of Subaru is because of the 2.5 liter engine. Sure, the 2.0 has potential, but after a dozen 2.0 DSMs I thought I was finished with 4 cylinders. The 2.5 gave me the torque I was after and when I saw the Legacy GT, I bought one in Sept 2004. It hadn't even been PDI'ed yet and was wrapped in plastic. It was a big step going from "what's so good about Subaru" to forking out $30k for one in a matter of a few months.

    I loved the 3S because it wast he first car that basic mods made a real difference. Sure, DSMs and WRXs react to basic mods but it's different when you start with a car that traps 91-92 mph vs. starting with 100 mph traps. The Legacy reacted just as well; I'm confident that I'll net a 12.9x @ 104-105 when I hit the track. That's satisfying for $500 in mods, and I've got the already-proven Subaru aftermarket waiting. I have expereince with other cars too; I converted my brother's Supra to a single in my driveway using crappy hand tools. It made over 500 rwhp and trapped over 120 mph so I'd call it a success. I owned a lot of DSMs too - several GSXs, an 89 Mirage turbo, a 91 Galant VR4, and a 97 Spyder GST. Many times people dismiss my opinion of the 3S because they assume I haven't experienced any other vehicles.

    It is fair to say I wouldn't buy a 2.0 WRX. I'd opt for the STi - I enjoyed the couple I've borrowed. It all changed when the WRX moved to the 2.5 as the standard engine. All of a sudden, the platform is far easier to make real power with - even if Subaru saddles all non-STI products with small turbos to keep them from making as much power. That's easy for us to fix, and I'd now recommend the WRX in a heartbeat.

    I don't defend the 3S on just this forum - I do it on any that I'm a member of. 99% of the nay-sayers have never owned one and just parrot what they read somewhere else. When I first got mine, even other 3S owners were confident that you couldn't get into the 12s on the stock turbos - it was the accepted norm. When I ran 12.90s with a downpipe and MBC, people noticed. When I ran 12.50s with still basic mods, people started believing more in the platform. There have been a few that beat my times by a tenth or two, mostly because they don't weigh 300 lbs like I do Since I can prove that "they cant' go fast" is a myth, people usually move on to statements like "they can't stop" or "they can't handle" because of their weight. That's when I have to resort to magazine tests as that's all I have for comparison with other vehicles.

    I joined Legacygt.com a few weeks before I bought the car. I've been a member at camaroz28.com for nearly 10 years and I've never owned an F-body - I just like the conversation. And of course, I'm on dodgefourm.com because I have a Ram 1500 - gotta feed the Hemi too. The Stealth owners there have never heard of me so if I give advice there it's like "who the hell is this guy?"
    John M
    2000 Lincoln Continental - slow DD with the DOHC 4.6 and a Superchips tune
    1992 Lexus SC400 - slow resto project
    2005 Legacy GT Limited - SOLD Feb 2011 - Forged internals, FP HTA Green @ 22 psi.

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    Wow, comprehensive answer. Fair enough.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RayfieldsWRX View Post
    Wow, comprehensive answer. Fair enough.
    +1

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    Quote Originally Posted by RayfieldsWRX View Post
    Wow, comprehensive answer. Fair enough.
    Much better then "it's a public forum" response most would have gave.



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    I thoroughly enjoy reading John's post. Always knowledgeable, and he loves the 3k/S as much as I do, but actually owned one, unlike myself :P.

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    Registered User natedawg9640's Avatar
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    well i got closer to a final answer tonight... went from about 15 to about 105... pretty much dead even till about 95... then he started pulling a little... all in all i am rather pleased... he's got a hard pipe kit and an extra lb. of boost. oh and an intake... other than that stock... but not for long which is why i am glad i got a chance to run a little before he's out of my league... lol
    yup

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    Quote Originally Posted by RayfieldsWRX View Post
    So I've always been curious, John. You've never owned a WRX, don't seem to want one or even particularly like them, and seem to spend most if not all of your energy making sure we all acknowledge the greatness of the VR-4/Stealth. What originally brought you to ClubWRX? Did you have a brief period where you considered getting one? Do you enjoy our sparkling personalities?
    Quote Originally Posted by John M View Post
    When I first got here, I had a few friends with WRXs who didn't know where to begin with their mods and I wanted to be sure I was steering them in the right direction - all my experience was with Mitsubishi. Once I got on the site I saw it was one of the few places where people were truly knowledgable about all vehicles and not just the one the forum was for. That's what kept me around.

    It was also this community, far more so than the soap opera that is NASIOC, that led me to consider the Legacy when it came out. My real love of Subaru is because of the 2.5 liter engine. Sure, the 2.0 has potential, but after a dozen 2.0 DSMs I thought I was finished with 4 cylinders. The 2.5 gave me the torque I was after and when I saw the Legacy GT, I bought one in Sept 2004. It hadn't even been PDI'ed yet and was wrapped in plastic. It was a big step going from "what's so good about Subaru" to forking out $30k for one in a matter of a few months.

    I loved the 3S because it wast he first car that basic mods made a real difference. Sure, DSMs and WRXs react to basic mods but it's different when you start with a car that traps 91-92 mph vs. starting with 100 mph traps. The Legacy reacted just as well; I'm confident that I'll net a 12.9x @ 104-105 when I hit the track. That's satisfying for $500 in mods, and I've got the already-proven Subaru aftermarket waiting. I have expereince with other cars too; I converted my brother's Supra to a single in my driveway using crappy hand tools. It made over 500 rwhp and trapped over 120 mph so I'd call it a success. I owned a lot of DSMs too - several GSXs, an 89 Mirage turbo, a 91 Galant VR4, and a 97 Spyder GST. Many times people dismiss my opinion of the 3S because they assume I haven't experienced any other vehicles.

    It is fair to say I wouldn't buy a 2.0 WRX. I'd opt for the STi - I enjoyed the couple I've borrowed. It all changed when the WRX moved to the 2.5 as the standard engine. All of a sudden, the platform is far easier to make real power with - even if Subaru saddles all non-STI products with small turbos to keep them from making as much power. That's easy for us to fix, and I'd now recommend the WRX in a heartbeat.

    I don't defend the 3S on just this forum - I do it on any that I'm a member of. 99% of the nay-sayers have never owned one and just parrot what they read somewhere else. When I first got mine, even other 3S owners were confident that you couldn't get into the 12s on the stock turbos - it was the accepted norm. When I ran 12.90s with a downpipe and MBC, people noticed. When I ran 12.50s with still basic mods, people started believing more in the platform. There have been a few that beat my times by a tenth or two, mostly because they don't weigh 300 lbs like I do Since I can prove that "they cant' go fast" is a myth, people usually move on to statements like "they can't stop" or "they can't handle" because of their weight. That's when I have to resort to magazine tests as that's all I have for comparison with other vehicles.

    I joined Legacygt.com a few weeks before I bought the car. I've been a member at camaroz28.com for nearly 10 years and I've never owned an F-body - I just like the conversation. And of course, I'm on dodgefourm.com because I have a Ram 1500 - gotta feed the Hemi too. The Stealth owners there have never heard of me so if I give advice there it's like "who the hell is this guy?"
    Stick that in the user note Ray

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    Quote Originally Posted by Not-EWRX View Post
    Stick that in the user note Ray
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