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This is a discussion on Yippie! Paper racing! within the Comparison: WRX vs World forums, part of the Community - Meet other Enthusiasts category; Originally Posted by 302@12psi Mileage today is no where near mileage was 30 years ago. We have faster cars that ...

  1. #61
    Registered User teflon_jones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 302@12psi View Post
    Mileage today is no where near mileage was 30 years ago. We have faster cars that usually run longer and get ALOT better MPG's.
    I'm sorry, but that's simply not true. This has been well publicized in the news so I'm surprised you don't know this. Here's a website that gives a good summary:
    http://www.dailyfueleconomytip.com/?p=195

    The average automobile gas mileage is the same (close enough) as 1980. So maybe I was off by a few years saying 30, but 28 years ago it was the same. However you look at it that's ridiculous. Imagine if computers were only 7% faster than 1980. Or if there were only 7% more TV channels.
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  3. #62
    Moderator Integra96's Avatar
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    Are those numbers standardized using a single EPA mileage rating system or is it the application of the new one vs. the old? If that's the case, the 1980s vs. current comparison is garbage - especially in light of much, much higher performance and dramatically improved safety in the present day. Let us also not forget about how comparatively clean emissions are now, as well. If we want to talk about environmental impact, mileage is just a small part of the big picture.
    Last edited by Integra96; 01-04-2008 at 11:11 AM.
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    Administrator RayfieldsWRX's Avatar
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    You're using that report as if it proves something about automobile technology. I don't read it that way at all; in fact that report explains the disparity pretty well if you keep reading. We sit in traffic much more than then, and we like trucks and SUV's.

    I'm thinking that the average family sedan of 2008 gets more than 7% better mileage than the average family sedan of 1980. My parents and I were cruising around in a 1977 Chevrolet Monte Carlo at the time, with an awful, smogged out, anemic 305ci V8 in it. My wife and kids cruise in a minivan that gets close to double the mileage of that car, at least on the highway. I don't recall the Monte Carlo's mileage in the city, but it was pretty atrocious.

    All the statistics show is that we choose to deal with lower mpg's, IMO.
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  5. #64
    Registered User WRXcruiser's Avatar
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    dont you love when your driving down highway 101, or simply any road, and a minivan or mid size sedan passes you in any type of weather conditions with their kids in the back seat. gotta love those v6 family cars! i dont understand why family cars need that much horsepower to get from a to b.
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    Once again....show me a performance car from the 80's that can run mid 13's and still get 24-27 MPG...it wont happen.


    Show me a family sedan from the 80's that has modern day fuel economy with modern day low emissions...it wont happen.

    You saying there is only X amount of increase is mute as the standards have changed.

    You can easily go out and buy a family sedan to put around town in that gets you 35-45 mpg these days. My girlfriends first 3 cars were "family" sedans from the 80's and she couldnt touch above 20 mpg and she'd lose a race to my 00 civic.

    Cars in general have come leaps and bounds in 30 years. I used 24-27 MPG because those are the numbers I get out of my STI. There isnt a car in the 80's that can touch those MPG's for the performance.
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    Registered User John M's Avatar
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    Today's v6 minivans get better mileage and are faster than most performance cars from mid 70s through late 80s.

    In true dragstrip figures, today's v6 sedans are just as quick as many fabled muscle cars from the 60s onward. We know that they didn't all make 400+ hp and turn 11s in bone stock form as so many fuzzy memorys recollect. Edmunds shows that the 64 GTO ran 15.8 @ 93. Any Camry/Accord/Sonata can beat that -- so can my 5600lb truck or even a Toyota RAV4!

    There were some 13-sec musclecars but none ran 12s or 11s in showroom stock form -- any that were truly retail vehicles anyway. Those that were that quick got single digit MPG figures.

    We have fantastic performance and economy today. We don't need governments legislating us back into 80hp ecoweeniemobiles.
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    Administrator RayfieldsWRX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WRXcruiser View Post
    dont you love when your driving down highway 101, or simply any road, and a minivan or mid size sedan passes you in any type of weather conditions with their kids in the back seat. gotta love those v6 family cars! i dont understand why family cars need that much horsepower to get from a to b.
    I love the small-minded notion that somehow you're not supposed to want horsepower any more, once you have a family. Power is only for single, childless people in hip cars?

    Figure it out, already:
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    Last edited by RayfieldsWRX; 01-06-2008 at 12:42 PM.
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    Registered User superbikemike's Avatar
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    Getting back to the V6 Ultima vs WRX, I was getting on the highway behind one of the new ones and had to try very hard to keep up with it in my stage 2 wagon.

  10. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by teflon_jones View Post
    I'm sorry, but that's simply not true. This has been well publicized in the news so I'm surprised you don't know this. Here's a website that gives a good summary:
    http://www.dailyfueleconomytip.com/?p=195

    The average automobile gas mileage is the same (close enough) as 1980. So maybe I was off by a few years saying 30, but 28 years ago it was the same. However you look at it that's ridiculous. Imagine if computers were only 7% faster than 1980. Or if there were only 7% more TV channels.

    The HP numbers today have nearly doubled since the 1980s. Family sedans that were making 120 HP back then are now making 240 HP, and they can still get 25 mpg. That means they are more fuel efficient. Its not a fair comparison to look at the MPG numbers alone -it doesn't tell the whole story.
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    Registered User WRXcruiser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RayfieldsWRX View Post
    I love the small-minded notion that somehow you're not supposed to want horsepower any more, once you have a family. Power is only for single, childless people in hip cars?

    Figure it out, already:
    Center of the Universe != You.
    get a two seater and leave the kids at home before you get in your peppy sports car and go zipping around town like the world is gonna end if you dont get to your destination asap.
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  12. #71
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    IMO automotive technology finally got rolling in the 80's when emission controls starting getting better at the same time power started to increase again after being severely strangled in the mid 70's. I started getting into the automotive scene in 1977 and saw the decline happen. As much as I love the muscle from the 60’s and 70’s, modern car technology has made our new cars better than anyone might have thought possible during the mid 70’s / mid 80’s. How many here have played with carburetors? Condenser and point set ignition? Give me OBDII anyday.

    Quote Originally Posted by WRXcruiser View Post
    dont you love when your driving down highway 101, or simply any road, and a minivan or mid size sedan passes you in any type of weather conditions with their kids in the back seat. gotta love those v6 family cars! i dont understand why family cars need that much horsepower to get from a to b.
    I am going to guess you are jealous and / or envy the “ordinary” cars that are a challenge to your (and my) 2.0 liter stage 2 WRX. It happens. All that work & $ making the most out of our engines … and some soccer Mom drives out of the showroom with a bone stock vehicle with no forced induction lag and plenty grunt to humble the WRX. Deal with it – I have. Someone (or some car) will always be faster. Do a turbo swap, get an STi – do a turbo swap on that.

    It is likely vehicles will continue to get at least somewhat more powerful / faster as efficiency allows. The newly adopted fuel mileage standard just might slow that down a bit.
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  13. #72
    Administrator RayfieldsWRX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WRXcruiser View Post
    get a two seater and leave the kids at home before you get in your peppy sports car and go zipping around town like the world is gonna end if you dont get to your destination asap.
    This one needs a therapist, badly.
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  14. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by WRXcruiser View Post
    get a two seater and leave the kids at home before you get in your peppy sports car and go zipping around town like the world is gonna end if you dont get to your destination asap.
    No wait....I think he's serious.


    I'm sure Ray doesnt go zipping around town with the kids in the car. If your theory is sport cars should only come in two seats I think you are crazy.
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  15. #74
    Administrator RayfieldsWRX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 302@12psi View Post
    I'm sure Ray doesnt go zipping around town with the kids in the car.
    Not normally. In the minivan, I reserve WOT for when I'm on a highway onramp, and have a chance to humiliate a grumpy-looking girl driving a WRX.
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  16. #75
    Registered User SVTorWRX's Avatar
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    come on man....

    Quote Originally Posted by WRXcruiser View Post
    dont you love when your driving down highway 101, or simply any road, and a minivan or mid size sedan passes you in any type of weather conditions with their kids in the back seat. gotta love those v6 family cars! i dont understand why family cars need that much horsepower to get from a to b.
    you know your car doesnt need that much horsepower either; are you a professional race car driver? do you spend your entire life on a track? i bet the answer is no, you don't "need" a turbo, a N/A 4cyl (or less) 4door sedan can easily accomidate your needs without strapping that pesky exhaust driven air compressor to it

    do you drive around at WOT redlined in top gear holding the car at its maximum speed everywhere you go, only to slam the brake pedal down to the floor and hold it there until you come to a complete stop with no clear destination in mind? cause if thats your life then yes, you sure need that turbo, but like most everyone in the world, theres typically an "a" (house apt etc.) and a "b" (school, movies, mall, someone elses house, apt. etc.) and driving in the above metnioned fassion will only get you killed or in jail

    the reason "family sedans" have that kind of power is because thats what American consumers want and its possible to do, the same reason your car has a turbo, its what consumers want, unless of course turbo's do something for the greater good im not aware of, or they are required to make an automobile run (in which case, there are a lot of companys that will be in trouble real soon)

    i dont recall the exact number, but a mere 15hp (more or less) is required to maintain speed on the highway in a mid-sized American sedan, the extra power is because people want to get there quicker

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