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This is a discussion on check out this beauty..future honda rice i mean racer within the Comparison: WRX vs World forums, part of the Community - Meet other Enthusiasts category; Originally Posted by Roganslap Ok, I didnt read through the other two pages in this thread, as I've read enough ...

  1. #61

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    Quote Originally Posted by Roganslap View Post
    Ok, I didnt read through the other two pages in this thread, as I've read enough uneducated 'he said-she saids'... Let's do some math..

    The 88-92 Civic hatchback base model weight approx. 2000-2100 lbs, at most. Show me a street-trimmed WRX under 3100lbs.
    If the B16A JDM trans or USDM Type-R trans is used, then it's a close ratio, factory LSD trans, and will rip 13s all freakin day long, with a CAI and header. My buddy's car was a '91 with a JDM B16A, stock airbox, stock 1.5L exhaust, and bone stock motor/trans/ecu mapping, and busted 14.2s CONSISTANTLY. Take into account that the stock 1.5L exhaust is about 1-1/4" or so. Looks like a broom handle.

    The B18C1 (USDM GSR) is 170hp stock.
    The B18C5 (USDM Type-R) is 190hp stock.
    The B18C (JDM Type R) is 210hp.
    The B16A1 through A3 is 160hp.
    The B16A4 (JDM) is 170hp.
    The B16B (Civic Type R) is 185hp.

    The stock WRX EJ20 is 227hp.
    I dont know what the WRX 2.5 is rated at.Keep in mind, these are bone stock figures. And I personally know that the Honda reacts far greater to bolt-ons than the Subaru.

    given the above facts, the 3100 pound Subaru with 227hp has a power/weight ratio of 13.7lb/hp. An STI (300hp, 3300lb est.) is 11lb/hp.
    A 2100 pound civic hatch with a 160hp (smallest DOHC listed) engine has a power/weight ratio of 13.1lb/hp. Same car, swap to a stock B18C1 (170hp) and the p/w drops to 12.3/hp. I've worked on B16A2s (2000 Si) and put header, cai, and exhaust, and a cookie cutter chip in the ecu, and made 160Whp (~190chp). so thats a 30hp gain with a few bolt-ons. Now you're at 11.0 lb/hp.

    My old '96 Civic CX hatch weighed right at 2110 with me in it (225). I had a BONE STOCK internalled B18C1 (170hp), with an fmic, turbo, and 450cc injectors. @ 10psi, made 310Whp, so thats around, what, 365chp? 2110/365 = 5.7lb/hp. 11.90s on 16" 215-45 Falken ZX512 street tires all day long, it ran. A 1500$ turbo kit was it, and some used DSM injectors.

    Anyway, from a 'visual' point, it may be a B16A?, but I cant really see the intake manifold. Aside from that, the B16/18C look the same.


    Oh, and the white 2 door isn't an Accord, as someone said. It's a DA-series Integra, and has a B17 or B18B (non-vtec) engine, Valve cover tells you that, by the design.

    I know this has become long-winded, but for goodness sakes, people, you crack on the Honda group like it's a child with Autism on the playground, and you act the same way. Learn before you speak. Makes you look smarter.
    maybe we should call u "Uncle Ben" since you know your rice
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  3. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Weasel 555 View Post
    maybe we should call u "Uncle Ben" since you know your rice
    haha... you funny guy! you no come back hee no mo

    Rogan o_0
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raybanned X View Post
    Naw man, Subaru is da best...end of story.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Not-EWRX View Post
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    Quote Originally Posted by Weasel 555 View Post
    u should go there to find a woman , not myspace
    +1

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rogan View Post
    Ok, I didnt read through the other two pages in this thread, as I've read enough uneducated 'he said-she saids'... Let's do some math..

    The 88-92 Civic hatchback base model weight approx. 2000-2100 lbs, at most. Show me a street-trimmed WRX under 3100lbs.If the B16A JDM trans or USDM Type-R trans is used, then it's a close ratio, factory LSD trans, and will rip 13s all freakin day long, with a CAI and header. My buddy's car was a '91 with a JDM B16A, stock airbox, stock 1.5L exhaust, and bone stock motor/trans/ecu mapping, and busted 14.2s CONSISTANTLY. Take into account that the stock 1.5L exhaust is about 1-1/4" or so. Looks like a broom handle.

    The B18C1 (USDM GSR) is 170hp stock.
    The B18C5 (USDM Type-R) is 190hp stock.
    The B18C (JDM Type R) is 210hp.
    The B16A1 through A3 is 160hp.
    The B16A4 (JDM) is 170hp.
    The B16B (Civic Type R) is 185hp.

    The stock WRX EJ20 is 227hp.
    I dont know what the WRX 2.5 is rated at.Keep in mind, these are bone stock figures. And I personally know that the Honda reacts far greater to bolt-ons than the Subaru.
    given the above facts, the 3100 pound Subaru with 227hp has a power/weight ratio of 13.7lb/hp. An STI (300hp, 3300lb est.) is 11lb/hp.
    A 2100 pound civic hatch with a 160hp (smallest DOHC listed) engine has a power/weight ratio of 13.1lb/hp. Same car, swap to a stock B18C1 (170hp) and the p/w drops to 12.3/hp. I've worked on B16A2s (2000 Si) and put header, cai, and exhaust, and a cookie cutter chip in the ecu, and made 160Whp (~190chp). so thats a 30hp gain with a few bolt-ons. Now you're at 11.0 lb/hp.

    My old '96 Civic CX hatch weighed right at 2110 with me in it (225). I had a BONE STOCK internalled B18C1 (170hp), with an fmic, turbo, and 450cc injectors. @ 10psi, made 310Whp, so thats around, what, 365chp? 2110/365 = 5.7lb/hp. 11.90s on 16" 215-45 Falken ZX512 street tires all day long, it ran. A 1500$ turbo kit was it, and some used DSM injectors.
    Anyway, from a 'visual' point, it may be a B16A?, but I cant really see the intake manifold. Aside from that, the B16/18C look the same.


    Oh, and the white 2 door isn't an Accord, as someone said. It's a DA-series Integra, and has a B17 or B18B (non-vtec) engine, Valve cover tells you that, by the design.

    I know this has become long-winded, but for goodness sakes, people, you crack on the Honda group like it's a child with Autism on the playground, and you act the same way. Learn before you speak. Makes you look smarter.
    can you show proof of this? i know hondas are light, but i just find it hard to believe that it weighs less than a go-cart.
    how much do you expect an AWD, 4 door to weigh?
    times don't really matter that much, different temps., elev., tracks, track conditions, track preparations, drivers, etc. play a huge roll in different e.t.'s ive been to 4 different tracks and every e.t. and trap has been different with the same mods, and about the same tune every time.
    those hondas make that power in the upper rpm range and only have a few thousand rpm's worth of power band when they actually make that peak number. even then, my lug nuts require more torque then they're peak torque. bhp numbers mean nothing in the real world with differrent drivetrain confgurations and different gear ratios.
    are you joking me? a stock 02-05 wrx makes 169whp and 174wtq and a cobb stage 2(reflash**very conservative tune**, and a turbo-back exhaust)wrx makes 224whp and 223wtq. thats +54 hp and +49 tq to the wheels on a mustang dyno. an sti makes 238 to the wheels and 248 wtq. a cobb stage 2 sti makes 277 whp and 316wtq. +39whp and 68wtq. how do subarus not make as much power as hondas?
    why not add torque into this formula, after all it is what makes horsepower.
    like i said in my previous post, forced induction is a whole different story.
    of course we do, this is a subaru wrx forum. how much more unbiased can you get? i'm sure on the honda forums they talk smack about wrx's all day. "my SOHC VTAK d16 with a cold air intake i fabbed up at auto zone smoked a modded WRX today. i knew it was modded because it had a blow off valve and an AEM sticker."

    i dont know if you've ever raced an AWD drive before, but the launch is crazy. while your fwd is babying it off the line so it won't spin, the wrx is at least 2 cars ahead from the get go. it's going to take more than .6 lb/hp to make up that by the end of 1/4 mile.

    All in all a fast honda is very possible. A common fast honda however is very rare. with all the hondas ive raced with all of their swaps, they're just not what they've been hyped up to be. i give them respect for making as much power as they do all motor and with what little displacment they have, but to me it's just been nothing to compete with.
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    [QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by DTFH3030 View Post
    can you show proof of this? i know hondas are light, but i just find it hard to believe that it weighs less than a go-cart.
    wow, that'd be one heavy gocart.

    how much do you expect an AWD, 4 door to weigh?
    dont get defensive I stated how much they weigh in my first post.
    This entire thread, pretty much, is overlooking the fact that the comparison isn't apples to apples. I'm trying to make them apples.

    times don't really matter that much, different temps., elev., tracks, track conditions, track preparations, drivers, etc. play a huge roll in different e.t.'s ive been to 4 different tracks and every e.t. and trap has been different with the same mods, and about the same tune every time.
    Well, yeah.. common sense.

    those hondas make that power in the upper rpm range and only have a few thousand rpm's worth of power band when they actually make that peak number. even then, my lug nuts require more torque then they're peak torque. bhp numbers mean nothing in the real world with different drivetrain configurations and different gear ratios.
    Yeah, a few thousand rpm.. My last one made power from 4500-8000, bone stock internally..

    are you joking me? a stock 02-05 wrx makes 169whp and 174wtq and a cobb stage 2(reflash**very conservative tune**, and a turbo-back exhaust)wrx makes 224whp and 223wtq. thats +54 hp and +49 tq to the wheels on a mustang dyno. an sti makes 238 to the wheels and 248 wtq. a cobb stage 2 sti makes 277 whp and 316wtq. +39whp and 68wtq. how do subarus not make as much power as hondas?
    Turbos.

    why not add torque into this formula, after all it is what makes horsepower.
    Torque "makes" horsepower? Hmm.. so, in my old honda, made 310whp, 250 Tq.. at 10psi.. What's your subaru make at 10psi? Judging by your supplied info ^^^, it isn't close to either number, 'cept maybe your stg2 STI example
    If Torque made horsepower, then every car with 200lb/ft TQ would have the same horsepower, no?
    Torque is the static measurement of how much work an engine does, while power is a measure of how fast the work is being done. Since horsepower is calculated from torque, what we are all seeking is the greatest-possible torque value over the broadest-possible rpm range. Horsepower will follow suit, and it will fall in the engine speed range dictated by the many factors that affect the torque curve. So you're kinda right. It's a calculated factor for horsepower.

    like i said in my previous post, forced induction is a whole different story.
    look, we agree on something.

    of course we do, this is a subaru wrx forum. how much more unbiased can you get? i'm sure on the honda forums they talk smack about wrx's all day. "my SOHC VTAK d16 with a cold air intake i fabbed up at auto zone smoked a modded WRX today. i knew it was modded because it had a blow off valve and an AEM sticker."
    Take a cruise around clubcivic.com.. I can't recall any Subaru bashing, actually. Matter of fact, quite a few members there have Subarus, as well. But that's just one forum, as the Honda crowd has their "nasioc" type of boards, too..

    i dont know if you've ever raced an AWD drive before, but the launch is crazy.
    sorry, that was kinda funny. But I understand you do not know my history, as I do not know yours

    while your fwd is babying it off the line so it won't spin, the wrx is at least 2 cars ahead from the get go. it's going to take more than .6 lb/hp to make up that by the end of 1/4 mile.
    My scenerio: Civic $1500, B18C1 $1000, turbo kit $1500, exhaust $600 3" tbe, $200 cia, wheels/tires $700. thats a 1500$ car, with $4000 I invested in it. ran high 11s, and was still a dependable DD car, and STILL got 32mpg.. Oh, and still 200cc smaller displacement that a wrx. So the WRX is already turbo. so to closer balance that out, call the above example a $4000 car 1.8L turbo), with an $800 Stg2 (exh., intake) bolt-ons. Dunno about you, but I highly doubt a Stg 2 wrx or sti will be in 11s. I could be wrong.

    All in all a fast honda is very possible. A common fast honda however is very rare. with all the hondas ive raced with all of their swaps, they're just not what they've been hyped up to be. i give them respect for making as much power as they do all motor and with what little displacment they have, but to me it's just been nothing to compete with.
    I can say, from having owned both, that my old Civic was way quicker than my WRX, even before I turbo'd it. If I were to guess, the WRX would kill it off the line, but by WRX's mid 2nd gear, my civic would be long gone by it. And my WRX was Stg2, tuned, not OTC'd. Now, if I could only get the Scooby to get 32mpg...

    Im not arguing with you.. More of a debate. just don't go e-thug on us. This is such a common misconception, or oversight with honda, due to the nature of the young punk wannabe's that drive them, for the majority.

    Think about it, if the 2002-2006 subarus could be had for 4-6000$, and the 93-00 civics were $12K-20K, this would be an entirely different conversation, would it not?
    Rogan o_0
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    Administrator RayfieldsWRX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roganslap View Post
    sorry, that was kinda funny. But I understand you do not know my history, as I do not know yours
    Rick gets cocky, just because he's owned more fast cars than most of have owned sneakers.

    Seriously, let's all show some respect for the other guy's depth of knowledge, or the thread won't be worth keeping around.
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    [quote=Rogan;2077577]


    Think about it, if the 2002-2006 subarus could be had for 4-6000$, and the 93-00 civics were $12K-20K, this would be an entirely different conversation, would it not?
    Factoring in a car's purchase price doesn't work well in an argument about a car's potential.

    In stock form a Civic has little potential other than a great commuter car. You need to either swap drivetrains and or go FI to make any power. That's alot of work in my book. Plus a FI Honda typically doesn't last long. N/A engines weren't built for it. Also, very few can pull off a swap and keep it reliable. There is just too much involved for the shade tree mechanic. A factory car with proven bolt on upgrades and a good tune will almost always be more reliable.

    I could take any cheap car (I have hundreds at my disposal at all times) and swap a larger engine in it. That doesn't mean it has potential. Hell, I could weld up mounts, fabricate brackets and swap an SRT-4 motor into a 1992 Geo Metro (1620 stock curb weight) for less than 5k, but it's not worth the work involved. With your argument, the 1992 Metro has the same potential as a Civic.

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    TR, that statement was more directed to "cocky car owners" statements, to which the Hondas are stereotyped around, not it's actual 'potential for power'..


    Im not arguing with you.. More of a debate. just don't go e-thug on us. This is such a common misconception, or oversight with honda, due to the nature of the young punk wannabe's that drive them, for the majority.

    Think about it, if the 2002-2006 subarus could be had for 4-6000$, and the 93-00 civics were $12K-20K, this would be an entirely different conversation, would it not?
    Rogan o_0
    '96 Dodge 2500 CTD @ 40psi - over 700 lb/ft TQ, 7" stack, and 5speed! - SOLD
    '01 Dodge 2500 CTD 6-holed hand-shaker - 3850# dual disk - 900 lb/ft - SOLD
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rogan View Post
    TR, that statement was more directed to "cocky car owners" statements, to which the Hondas are stereotyped around, not it's actual 'potential for power'..
    It came off as the typical "Civic's unlimited potential" argument used by countless Honda nuts. Any car has unlimited potential with unlimited time, money, and welding.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trainrex View Post
    It came off as the typical "Civic's unlimited potential" argument used by countless Honda nuts. Any car has unlimited potential with unlimited time, money, and welding.
    Wasn't meant that way, so apologies go out.
    Rogan o_0
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    '01 Dodge 2500 CTD 6-holed hand-shaker - 3850# dual disk - 900 lb/ft - SOLD
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rogan View Post
    wow, that'd be one heavy gocart.
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    Quote Originally Posted by KanoWRX View Post
    well...IMO, or IMI (In My Imagination) WRX's/STi's are still better that Evo's...hands down...despise the facts.........

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    WOW heres an idea ... how about you just race him and get it over with
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