stg 2 vs. 96 vortech charged stang gt - Page 4
Page 4 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 46 to 60 of 63

This is a discussion on stg 2 vs. 96 vortech charged stang gt within the Comparison: WRX vs World forums, part of the Community - Meet other Enthusiasts category; Originally Posted by STI-51 Actually, it's the Ford and all other RWD muscle car guys that have a lot to ...

  1. #46
    Registered User MagikMan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    229
    Quote Originally Posted by STI-51
    Actually, it's the Ford and all other RWD muscle car guys that have a lot to learn, like there is more to driving than straight-line performance and only being able to drive in IDEAL conditions. Can't wait to see all the mustangs lining up to race me in tonight's blizzard!!!
    Although your wrx handles great... and is awesome for what it is... the AWD pulling through turns is fun too... it would still get dominated on a road course by the 'vettes and m3's which happen to be rwd cars..... so don't think for a second that rwd is just about straight lane performance.
    1999 Corvette; vararam cold air intake; ls6 intake manifold; cartek stage 2x heads; cartek stage 2x cam; ported ls6 oil pump; hardened pushrods; 1 7/8" headers with full 3" exhaust back; hardened output shaft; 3.90rear gears.... 420rwhp

    2001 Audi A4 2.8 Quattro; heated seats

  2. Remove Advertisements
    ClubWRX.net
    Advertisements
     

  3. #47
    Registered User MagikMan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    229
    Quote Originally Posted by Digitalfiend
    This was already pointed out but what the heck does your V8 with a completely different car bolted to it (i.e. not a Ford GT) have to do with what he said? In the case of the Ford GT, no, it isn't a fuel efficient V8-equipped car. Also, your fuel efficiency has a lot to do with your gearing. Out of curiosity, how many RPMs are you turning at say 75mph on the highway?

    Just for fun...
    BTW... at 75mph i'm at like 1850 rpm
    1999 Corvette; vararam cold air intake; ls6 intake manifold; cartek stage 2x heads; cartek stage 2x cam; ported ls6 oil pump; hardened pushrods; 1 7/8" headers with full 3" exhaust back; hardened output shaft; 3.90rear gears.... 420rwhp

    2001 Audi A4 2.8 Quattro; heated seats

  4. #48
    Registered User scoob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Columbus, Oh.
    Posts
    627
    Quote Originally Posted by MagikMan
    Although your wrx handles great... and is awesome for what it is... the AWD pulling through turns is fun too... it would still get dominated on a road course by the 'vettes and m3's which happen to be rwd cars..... so don't think for a second that rwd is just about straight lane performance.
    Some of you guys are way too AWD hating. Your wrong about getting dominated on a road course. AWD has been outlawed in numorous racing forms because of the one thing that it crushes all comers in. Traction. Try running your stang for mulitiple hot laps against a stocka%% wrx and I promise you within due time and not even equal drives it will hand you your a$$. AWD rules in tire wear. You will be rolling on threaded rocks while the rex is just cruising by you in any lengthy real race on any course. WRX's have unreal balance at high speed sweepers too; and don't even get me started on a dirty couse either. Didn't think about that did ya!
    Mustangs are for straights, and that's pretty much it. WRX can do anything. Being a jack of all trades is it's specialty. It's a swiss army knife, where a stang is a stake knife. You can cut the hell out of some meat with a stake knife, but have you ever tried getting a splinter out with one, while putting together a computer desk?
    My car looks just like this without the skirts and roof wing! Yeah baby!

  5. #49
    Registered User amukaoen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Aurora, IL
    Posts
    1,429
    I remeber reading in a magazine that RWD is used over AWD (in racing leagues such as the JGTC) is that AWD platforms add so much more weight to the car (and we all know that every single gram counts on these cars) and the cars are running slicks and tons of downforce (with all the aerodynamics), so the cost outweights what little benefit you'd gain..

    Aerodynamic grip > Mechanical grip.

    feel free to correct me if im wrong.
    Last edited by amukaoen; 02-15-2006 at 12:07 PM.
    they call STi's STDs because everyone is getting them.

  6. #50
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Boulder, Co
    Posts
    320
    Formula 1 cars are a good example of that, they use a vacuum under the car to keep it sucked down and slicks on all 4. I really need to get me one.

  7. #51
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    CT
    Posts
    48
    Man, it seems a few people put the AWD vehicles on a way to of a high pedestal. It seems they think their cars are beasts, corner carvers and the best car ever made; while raceing in any weather condition. I agree with all of Juice33 and MagikMans posts, but people in AWDs have to realize (or go out and read about) what their "competitors" cars can ACTUALLY do on the road course or the quarter mile, stock and modded. Not what the believe, feel or hear say, remember Cameros....Mustangs...Corvettes...etc..etc... are not just made for straight line performers they also can be made into pretty impressive corner carvers. You can make any car do what you want, you can have an STi do 7 second quarter mile if you want or faster. You can have a Mustang beat a STi (modded or not) on the road course. What do you think we were driving in the snow (and blizzards) when these AWDs weren't around....Mustangs, Cameros, Coevettes, 'Cudas,etc,etc with high horse power. Granted they weren't fast with snow on the road but who wants to chance racing on snowy roads. You have to learn/know how to drive your rear wheel drive muscle car in the snow and back then I did. It seems AWD gives some people false beliefs that they can drive and beat anyone.
    Last edited by Razors Edge; 02-15-2006 at 08:00 PM.

  8. #52
    Registered User scoob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Columbus, Oh.
    Posts
    627
    For every guy that thinks awd is the sh&t, there is a guy like you who thinks it's overated.
    I like AWD period. It is just awesome to drive in snowy conditions like there is no snow, while guys like you are stuck calling AAA. Then turning around and dusting didicated 1/4 mile cars from a stop light, while carring a trunk full of groceries, and two babyseats while getting almost 30mpg (Stg2)on the hwy. If you can't see the advantages of owning a wrx from that then your too biased to know your butt from a hole in the ground.
    Comparing a mustang as a total car to a wrx of any kind, is like me comparing my car to a four-door Veyron that gets 50mpg and cost $50,000. No contest.
    Your fast, but thats simply not enough for me personally.
    My car looks just like this without the skirts and roof wing! Yeah baby!

  9. #53
    Registered User Digitalfiend's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    343
    Quote Originally Posted by Razors Edge
    Man, it seems a few people put the AWD vehicles on a way to of a high pedestal. It seems they think their cars are beasts, corner carvers and the best car ever made; while raceing in any weather condition. I agree with all of Juice33 and MagikMans posts, but people in AWDs have to realize (or go out and read about) what their "competitors" cars can ACTUALLY do on the road course or the quarter mile, stock and modded.
    With the exception of the later Corvettes, the Mustangs and Camaros aren't that good on the road course unless running modified suspensions. Even then, once modded, it's really only the Camaros that hang with the modded STis. Look at SCCA T2. What car is dominating that? The STi.

    Futhermore, think look at Audi's Quattro system (AWD). They are (or were) banned from using it in races since it provided a serious advantage over the RWD competition. Watch the old Quattros race and you'll see why that AWD system dominates everything out there - even with extra penalty weight and less power.

    Quote Originally Posted by Razors Edge
    Not what the believe, feel or hear say, remember Cameros....Mustangs...Corvettes...etc..etc... are not just made for straight line performers they also can be made into pretty impressive corner carvers.
    Stop talking about Corvettes and Camaros/Mustangs in the same sentence when referring to road racing. The Corvette is the only car in that group capable of excellent road course performance. To class the Corvette with a Mustang or Camaro in the handling department is just insulting.

    On to your point though, of course any car can be made to handle well but there are limits to the platform and, if you are club racing, there are restrictions made to what can be done to the cars. In this case, the STi and AWD dominates the Mustang/Camaro and just think, the Evo is even slightly better.

    Quote Originally Posted by Razors Edge
    You can have a Mustang beat a STi (modded or not) on the road course.
    Sure you can, if the Mustang driver is more experienced. But stock for stock or mildly modded, with equally skilled drivers, the STi will destroy a Mustang around the corners. It has more power, less weight, more traction, better gearing, and better suspension setup. What's so hard to understand?

    Quote Originally Posted by Razors Edge
    What do you think we were driving in the snow (and blizzards) when these AWDs weren't around....Mustangs, Cameros, Coevettes, 'Cudas,etc,etc with high horse power.
    I doubt a lot of high-horsepower muscle car guys drove their vehicles in the snow for any great distance back in the 60s/70s and if they did, they were probably running chains or some form of studded tire (if those were even available back then) or garaged their muscle cars. Not everyone drove 300-400hp cars back then.

    I would love to see you drive a drag prepped muscle car, with over 300lb-ft, on older tire technology, without spinning your tires all over the place. Can it be done? Sure but nowhere near as easy as driving AWD. Don't forget, a lot of your "snow skill" comes from today's amazing winter tire technology which aids the driver immensely.

    Quote Originally Posted by Razors Edge
    It seems AWD gives some people false beliefs that they can drive and beat anyone.
    While I definitely agree that people with AWD tend to be overconfident, AWD is still a much better technology, in most cases, than 2WD. Rain, snow, dirt, gravel, road course, autox, drag racing, you name it, and AWD is better. That isn't to say that a well built RWD car can't beat AWD - of course they can. Still, comparing a Corvette Z06 to a STi is ridiculous and not a fair comparison of drivetrains. Of course the Vette will perform better, it has a better chassis setup, lighter, much more power, and much larger wheels (i.e. traction) - it really has less to do with the drivetrain. But lets be real, stock for stock or mod for mod, a well-driven STi or Evo will beat a Mustang or Camaro around a road course.
    Last edited by Digitalfiend; 02-16-2006 at 08:48 AM.
    2005 Aspen White STi

  10. #54
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    CT
    Posts
    48
    Quote Originally Posted by scoob
    For every guy that thinks awd is the sh&t, there is a guy like you who thinks it's overated.
    I like AWD period. It is just awesome to drive in snowy conditions like there is no snow, while guys like you are stuck calling AAA. Then turning around and dusting didicated 1/4 mile cars from a stop light, while carring a trunk full of groceries, and two babyseats while getting almost 30mpg (Stg2)on the hwy. If you can't see the advantages of owning a wrx from that then your too biased to know your butt from a hole in the ground.
    Comparing a mustang as a total car to a wrx of any kind, is like me comparing my car to a four-door Veyron that gets 50mpg and cost $50,000. No contest.
    Your fast, but thats simply not enough for me personally.

    BWAHAHAHA!! Get your head out of your WRX's A$$! Your blinded by your own sh$t. Good you like the AWD and I'm not going to change your mind or anyones for that matter, to each his own. If you think for one second that I think they are overrated, man your head must be way up there. For starters if I have a nice car like a Mustang, Camero, Corvette, WRX or even an STi ...etc...etc..I would drive them yes, but not to much in the snow or winter conditions. To many chances for an accident from some jerk not being able to stop or other inceidences. Plus the salt and rocks kicked up hitting the paint and damaging it...etc..etc.. I have a "TRUCK" for winter driving for your information. Most car enthusiasts have a DD car or a winter driver/beater, but seeing you are blinded by the AWD god YOU dont realize the BENIFIT of this! Even if its a Hugo at least their nice car wont get dinged up or dammaged. You should read my post again and actually "READ IT" for I'm not downing any car. Unlike you who think its the greatest thing since sliced bread and that everyone should own a AWD, sieg hiel. Guess what its not for everyone and I'm not into following the AWD Hitlers. Any car can be made to do what you want and people have to know about what other cars can do before bashing them (or racing them); and that a few people put AWDs on a high pedestal, which was my point. I like the WRX models, been in them and they were fast. Read my post again maybe without the sh#t in your eyes. You dont see most people racing side by side in the back roads up snow covered mountain hills while theres a blizzard goin on after shopping, do ya. Most street racing is done in a straight line, its quick and over with fast. Not racing side by side through corners of back roads. Have fun racing with your kids in the child seats and groceries in the snow on the back roads. Not for me, to each his own .

  11. #55
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    CT
    Posts
    48
    Quote Originally Posted by Digitalfiend
    With the exception of the later Corvettes, the Mustangs and Camaros aren't that good on the road course unless running modified suspensions. Even then, once modded, it's really only the Camaros that hang with the modded STis. Look at SCCA T2. What car is dominating that? The STi.

    ------Of course



    Stop talking about Corvettes and Camaros/Mustangs in the same sentence when referring to road racing. The Corvette is the only car in that group capable of excellent road course performance. To class the Corvette with a Mustang or Camaro in the handling department is just insulting.

    ------------I wasn't talking STOCK

    On to your point though, of course any car can be made to handle well but there are limits to the platform and, if you are club racing, there are restrictions made to what can be done to the cars. In this case, the STi and AWD dominates the Mustang/Camaro and just think, the Evo is even slightly better.

    ---------Again..Yes if they are stock



    Sure you can, if the Mustang driver is more experienced. But stock for stock or mildly modded, with equally skilled drivers, the STi will destroy a Mustang around the corners. It has more power, less weight, more traction, better gearing, and better suspension setup. What's so hard to understand?

    ------------Here we go again.....Talking about modding Mustangs and Cameros



    I doubt a lot of high-horsepower muscle car guys drove their vehicles in the snow for any great distance back in the 60s/70s and if they did, they were probably running chains or some form of studded tire (if those were even available back then) or garaged their muscle cars. Not everyone drove 300-400hp cars back then.

    -------------I did and most of the people I knew back then did also, without chains. I also lived up on a huge hill.


    I would love to see you drive a drag prepped muscle car, with over 300lb-ft, on older tire technology, without spinning your tires all over the place. Can it be done? Sure but nowhere near as easy as driving AWD. Don't forget, a lot of your "snow skill" comes from today's amazing winter tire technology which aids the driver immensely.

    ---------------------------Here you are talking about a "DRAG PREPPED" muscle car to a stock AWD. If you are talking about factory Drag Specials then you would be amazed and start thinking twice on that statement of spinning the tires. I agree about the tire technology.



    While I definitely agree that people with AWD tend to be overconfident, AWD is still a much better technology, in most cases, than 2WD. Rain, snow, dirt, gravel, road course, autox, drag racing, you name it, and AWD is better. That isn't to say that a well built RWD car can't beat AWD - of course they can. Still, comparing a Corvette Z06 to a STi is ridiculous and not a fair comparison of drivetrains. Of course the Vette will perform better, it has a better chassis setup, lighter, much more power, and much larger wheels (i.e. traction) - it really has less to do with the drivetrain. But lets be real, stock for stock or mod for mod, a well-driven STi or Evo will beat a Mustang or Camaro around a road course.
    .........

    ---------------Yes I agree AWD is a better technology and a few people tend to be over confident with their AWDs....Of course stock for stock the Mustang, Camero, etc...etc..they will get beat. That was not my point of the original post!

    LOL...some of my opinions are in the blue...lol
    Last edited by Razors Edge; 02-16-2006 at 09:56 AM.

  12. #56
    Registered User Digitalfiend's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    343
    Quote Originally Posted by Razors Edge
    .........

    ---------------Yes I agree AWD is a better technology and a few people tend to be over confident with their AWDs....Of course stock for stock the Mustang, Camero, etc...etc..they will get beat. That was not my point of the original post!

    LOL...some of my opinions are in the blue...lol
    Yeah I just noticed that. Check your quote tags, probably missing a / or something.

    I know what you are saying though. How many times have we heard "Crashed my STi in the rain!?! Wtf, stupid tires?!" or "On ramp @ 120mph > STi...stupid car" or "Raced someone in the snow...hit a pole! But I have AWD wtf!?". I definitely believe that people overestimate what AWD can do, as well as their own driving abilities, no question about that. I think the problem with AWD is that it lets you get away with a LOT before it turns around and bites you - so instead of dealing with a situation at 40mph you might be dealing with it at 70-80mph.

    Coming from someone that has some experience tracking FWD, AWD, and, to a lesser extent, RWD, I definitely feel AWD is the better technology. The ability to put down so much power coming out of a corner is extremely impressive. When AWD lets go, it definitely takes a different approach than FWD/RWD but once you get used to it, it is extremely forgiving.

    I must admit, the more I drive my STi in the rain and snow, the more I really come to appreciate AWD (especially sophisticated AWD like the STis.) Even with AWD, you can easily get the STi to get a bit squirrely in the snow, even in Auto, but any car that puts out 300lb-ft and doesn't have traction control will do that. But I'll still take that over spinning at an intersection trying to make a left any day.

    Edit: I guess what my beef is with the "AWD is only good for rain/snow" comments, is that people forget AWD is a race proven technology. Whether it is rallying on tarmac, Super GT, GT, whatever, AWD can dominate on a road course - it isn't just for getting off the line quickly in poor conditions. People forget this when they say "AWD sucks at everything else but rain/snow." That is seriously close minded.

    Now, if it happens to be raining on track day though...
    Last edited by Digitalfiend; 02-16-2006 at 10:15 AM.
    2005 Aspen White STi

  13. #57
    Registered User scoob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Columbus, Oh.
    Posts
    627
    Way to turn tail and run kid ( you just said all this sh*t about knowing how to drive in the snow with muscle cars cough*dumb* cough) . Oh by the way, I never said my kids were in the car, "I SAID" that I had babyseats in the back with groceries, that's it. They were empty...... kind of like your mind duuuhhhh.
    Oh and another thing, yes, AWD is the best thing since sliced bread fool!

    p.s. Don't get your panties in a bunch, unless you like it that way.

    Oh and what the hell is a Hugo?
    My car looks just like this without the skirts and roof wing! Yeah baby!

  14. #58
    Registered User scoob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Columbus, Oh.
    Posts
    627
    Quote Originally Posted by Digitalfiend
    Yeah I just noticed that. Check your quote tags, probably missing a / or something.

    I know what you are saying though. How many times have we heard "Crashed my STi in the rain!?! Wtf, stupid tires?!" or "On ramp @ 120mph > STi...stupid car" or "Raced someone in the snow...hit a pole! But I have AWD wtf!?". I definitely believe that people overestimate what AWD can do, as well as their own driving abilities, no question about that. I think the problem with AWD is that it lets you get away with a LOT before it turns around and bites you - so instead of dealing with a situation at 40mph you might be dealing with it at 70-80mph.

    Coming from someone that has some experience tracking FWD, AWD, and, to a lesser extent, RWD, I definitely feel AWD is the better technology. The ability to put down so much power coming out of a corner is extremely impressive. When AWD lets go, it definitely takes a different approach than FWD/RWD but once you get used to it, it is extremely forgiving.

    I must admit, the more I drive my STi in the rain and snow, the more I really come to appreciate AWD (especially sophisticated AWD like the STis.) Even with AWD, you can easily get the STi to get a bit squirrely in the snow, even in Auto, but any car that puts out 300lb-ft and doesn't have traction control will do that. But I'll still take that over spinning at an intersection trying to make a left any day.

    Edit: I guess what my beef is with the "AWD is only good for rain/snow" comments, is that people forget AWD is a race proven technology. Whether it is rallying on tarmac, Super GT, GT, whatever, AWD can dominate on a road course - it isn't just for getting off the line quickly in poor conditions. People forget this when they say "AWD sucks at everything else but rain/snow." That is seriously close minded.

    Now, if it happens to be raining on track day though...
    True to that, AWD can make you too confident. It's as if you can scare the sh*t out of yourself with it because of overconfidence.
    My car looks just like this without the skirts and roof wing! Yeah baby!

  15. #59
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Cromwell, CT
    Posts
    178
    A 911 TT or Murcielago would put this whole thread to rest.
    Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, start.

  16. #60
    Registered User scoob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Columbus, Oh.
    Posts
    627
    Quote Originally Posted by STI-51
    A 911 TT or Murcielago would put this whole thread to rest.
    Not if you need to use babyseats they won't.
    My car looks just like this without the skirts and roof wing! Yeah baby!

Page 4 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •