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This is a discussion on got pulled on by a 93-96 rx7 within the Comparison: WRX vs World forums, part of the Community - Meet other Enthusiasts category; I actually owned a 93 rx7 touring model. The car was fast about once a week. The other times of ...

  1. #31
    Registered User StupidMan's Avatar
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    I actually owned a 93 rx7 touring model. The car was fast about once a week. The other times of the week, I was the fast one, hurrying to fix my car by the next weekend.
    You DON'T want an Rx7, unless you don't plan on doing any mods AT ALL.
    If you want an rx7 as a daily driver, you will need 7 of them and a full time mechanic. One car for each day of the week. (why do you think they call it an rx7 )

    That guy might be flashing his hazards now because he beat you, but one day you will see them same hazards flashing on the side of the road, while smoke is pouring out the front of his car.

    Just to let you know what I went through with my rx7.....I bought it mostly stock, tweaked it with a DP, Intercooler, and intake. Then the stock turbo's whistled for their last time while racing a firebird (and of course he thought he beat me). I replaced them with new stockers that I modified to run as true twins instead of sequential. A few thousand miles later, #2 turbo goes phoey.
    So I opt for a single turbo upgrade. After weeks of installing full fuel system, full 3.5" exhaust, V-Mount IC setup, Apexi Power FC and the monster 70mm turbo kit, I finally had it running right. Then several weeks later my PFC picked up a little knock on a hot day, so I took it home for inspection.....She never started (or at least stayed started) again. I sold it on Ebay for 9k........I had at least that into the mods.
    Don't think for one second that Asscracker hasn't had the same problems, that is probably why he flashed you to begin with, because inside he was like "finally a clean run without something breaking."
    So, that is why it seems that most rx7 guys are assheads...because they are just plain tired.
    Too bad the rx7 powertrain sucks......In my book it is the most beautiful car I have ever owned. I can post some pics if you want.

    Now guess what?...........I own a WRX.....

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  3. #32
    Registered User StupidMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YZFWV
    VW Golf GT
    Engine ... 1.4 liter, 4 cyl.
    Power ... 168 hp
    Torque ... 177 lb. -ft
    0-62 MPH ... 7.9 sec.
    Top Speed ... 136 mph
    MPG ... 30 (city); 48 (highway)

    But as far as high hp/tq, the new 2.0t's are putting out 250hp and 270ft/lbs with a $350 chip. They're turbo charged of course and it's a small turbo, but put a larger turbo on it and you're pushing 350hp/350ft/lbs that's fairly drivable. Of course it's not a V8, but then again it's not a honda putting down 200hp and 139ft/lbs tq with a 2.0n/a motor. But it goes to show that torque isn't primarily a displacement thing...
    True, torque is not a displacement thing...it is a volumetric efficiency thing. The VE of a turbo engine will be equal or greater than a non boosted engine with similar output 2 or 3 times its size (of course, this depends on many factors, boost, rpm, load ect.)
    That is the beauty of turbo, using energy usually wasted to increase the performance of the car.

  4. #33
    Registered User amukaoen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StupidMan
    True, torque is not a displacement thing...it is a volumetric efficiency thing. The VE of a turbo engine will be equal or greater than a non boosted engine with similar output 2 or 3 times its size (of course, this depends on many factors, boost, rpm, load ect.)
    That is the beauty of turbo, using energy usually wasted to increase the performance of the car.

    blarg just likes to disagree and argue with people.

    just agree with him.

    smile and nod... :P
    they call STi's STDs because everyone is getting them.

  5. #34
    Registered User StupidMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amukaoen
    blarg just likes to disagree and argue with people.

    just agree with him.

    smile and nod... :P
    I see that.
    Obviously he doesn't know a lot about rx7's because anyone that knows the "1.3L" rotary engine knows that it actually displaces 2.6 liters, This is because at all times, there is ignition or compression on 2 of the 3 sides of the rotor. So essentially it would cycle as a motor with 4 combustion chambers(like 4cyl), rather than 2 chambers which is how they calculate the 1.3L.
    But that is beside the point, If you want to hear about small motors making nice torque, just take a look at a few harley engines, some of those engines would put many torque per liter #'s to shame. Or, take a look at some modified supra's who are putting out 800 or 900 lbs/ft on the stock 3 liter block. That is nearly 300lbs/ft per liter.

    Torque also has a lot to do with bore/stroke ratio, combustion chamber shape, compression ratio ect. ect. but I wont go into that now.

  6. #35
    Registered User labelskate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StupidMan
    I actually owned a 93 rx7 touring model. The car was fast about once a week. The other times of the week, I was the fast one, hurrying to fix my car by the next weekend.
    You DON'T want an Rx7, unless you don't plan on doing any mods AT ALL.
    If you want an rx7 as a daily driver, you will need 7 of them and a full time mechanic. One car for each day of the week. (why do you think they call it an rx7 )

    That guy might be flashing his hazards now because he beat you, but one day you will see them same hazards flashing on the side of the road, while smoke is pouring out the front of his car.

    Just to let you know what I went through with my rx7.....I bought it mostly stock, tweaked it with a DP, Intercooler, and intake. Then the stock turbo's whistled for their last time while racing a firebird (and of course he thought he beat me). I replaced them with new stockers that I modified to run as true twins instead of sequential. A few thousand miles later, #2 turbo goes phoey.
    So I opt for a single turbo upgrade. After weeks of installing full fuel system, full 3.5" exhaust, V-Mount IC setup, Apexi Power FC and the monster 70mm turbo kit, I finally had it running right. Then several weeks later my PFC picked up a little knock on a hot day, so I took it home for inspection.....She never started (or at least stayed started) again. I sold it on Ebay for 9k........I had at least that into the mods.
    Don't think for one second that Asscracker hasn't had the same problems, that is probably why he flashed you to begin with, because inside he was like "finally a clean run without something breaking."
    So, that is why it seems that most rx7 guys are assheads...because they are just plain tired.
    Too bad the rx7 powertrain sucks......In my book it is the most beautiful car I have ever owned. I can post some pics if you want.

    Now guess what?...........I own a WRX.....

    I agree, they are beautiful cars.

  7. #36
    Registered User blarg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amukaoen
    blarg just likes to disagree and argue with people.

    just agree with him.

    smile and nod... :P
    hey, all I know is that big displacement motors make more torque. Old jeeps had 4L motors that only made like 122 HP, but had 300+ tq.

    I'm not saying it can't be done with a small motor, but it can be done EASIER with a big one. And that its a lot easier to get HP out of a small motor than it is to get torque.

    I know you can find specific examples of motors that are outside the the generalization, but one exception or two exceptions doesn't invalidate a trend. I'm NOT arguing with you. I'm just saying that getting torque out of a larger displacement motor is easier. You don't see many turbo charged 1.5L honda motors at truck pulls...or rotaries.

    ...and I was NOT talking about forced induction rotaries....because as I said in another post, they're just not the most reliable cars. I was comparing NA cars. A turbo changes the equasion somewhat...and most of the "exceptions" you listed were turbocharged. Still even WITH a turbo, its easier to get torque when you have more displacement. Look at the new 2.5L WRX.
    Last edited by blarg; 11-15-2005 at 07:50 AM.
    ScoobyDMC #009 - making dirty jokes since before you were making dirty diapers.
    Quote Originally Posted by Blarg
    go f*** yourself

  8. #37
    Registered User enash99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by elohdaeh78
    No you don't they break every two days.

    Not the ones I have seen, The NA's aren't all that but those Turbo's make it a whole different game.
    2003 Platinum Silver Metalic Sedan
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yossarian
    Even if your car was stock, your chances of warranty coverage are about as good as a retarded chimp trying to do a calculus problem while high on pcp.

  9. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by blarg
    I'm not saying it can't be done with a small motor, but it can be done EASIER with a big one. And that its a lot easier to get HP out of a small motor than it is to get torque.
    don 't start this. HP is a direct relation to how much torque there is in the redline. The reason it's "a lot easier to get HP out of asmall motor than it is to get torque." is because the high HP number tells us that the motor produces it's tq on the low end.

    - Maximum acceleration at any speed occurs at the HP peak.
    - Maximum acceleration in any gear occurs at the torque peak
    - HP = torque * RPM / 5252
    - torque = HP * 5252 / RPM
    - torque = HP at 5252 RPM

    yes, I got this off another website.

    If you actually want to use the jeep making 300ft/lbs tq and 122hp, it would be making max tq and hp at 2150rpm. Not a very usable powerband if you ask me...

    Now just to help with conprehension.

    a car that has 266hp and 200ft/lbs tq puts out maximum hp and tq at 7000rpm.
    a car that has 190hp and 200ft/lbs tq puts out maximum hp and tq at 5000rpm.

    Now the reason it's easier to get more tq than hp out of a v8 with only 5krpm redline is because of that...the redline is only 5k rpm. If you built the engine to bump the redline up to 7k rpm and produce the max tq there, you'd automatically give your engine 76hp by doing that...and all you have to do to get more hp than tq is increase the revs.

    That's why a 600cc sport bike has 123hp and 47ft/lbs at 15000rpm compared to a twin with 40hp and 70ft/lbs at 5k rpm.
    Why do I have to slow down for the WRX? Just because everyone says it's faster doesn't mean I Have to let it win, does it?

  10. #39
    Registered User blarg's Avatar
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    well, if youre running in low drive in first gear, and you're on a trail, that's exatly where you want your powerband. The thing redlines at 4.5k. There's a reason why you don't see 1.6L I4's in tractor trailers, trains, and buses. They're don't drag race. They need as much power as they can get at the low end. I've seen a Civic hatch dyno at over 600 HP....more than a diesel semi...but you ask a truck driver what he'd rather than...that turbo'd 1.6L or the 14L monster in his truck that makes 400 HP.
    ScoobyDMC #009 - making dirty jokes since before you were making dirty diapers.
    Quote Originally Posted by Blarg
    go f*** yourself

  11. #40
    Registered User MengHang's Avatar
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    Should have raced him about 3-4 more times. His car
    will OVERheat and burn up.

    Then you turn your flashers ON and continue to blow by him.

    Cannot drive them too long before they overheat

    in the end you lose to a poorly engineered car.
    Meng Hang

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    Network System Administrator, IT Supervisor
    Black WRX 2002, ...with 18G with Stock IC.

  12. #41
    Registered User blarg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MengHang
    Should have raced him about 3-4 more times. His car
    will OVERheat and burn up.

    Then you turn your flashers ON and continue to blow by him.

    Cannot drive them too long before they overheat

    in the end you lose to a poorly engineered car.
    my friend with the RX7 says there's a red light near the gear shift that's the EGT warning light. Basically if it goes off...your motor's toast...like you need a little red light to tell you that.
    ScoobyDMC #009 - making dirty jokes since before you were making dirty diapers.
    Quote Originally Posted by Blarg
    go f*** yourself

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