06 WRX vs. 06 Civic Si - Page 12
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This is a discussion on 06 WRX vs. 06 Civic Si within the Comparison: WRX vs World forums, part of the Community - Meet other Enthusiasts category; Originally Posted by AngelBoy although you're absolutely right, this would only affect steering feel (which is actually important, but we're ...

  1. #166
    Administrator Trainrex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AngelBoy
    although you're absolutely right, this would only affect steering feel (which is actually important, but we're talking handling).
    Skidpad numbers, yes. Overall feeling, no. I view handling as a subjective thing.

    Just to put things in perspective, I don't like the way WRX's/STi's feel. They are ballasted all wrong. I prefer the feel of the EVO. Though I'll take a mid-engine RWD over all of them.

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  3. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trainrex
    Skidpad numbers, yes. Overall feeling, no. I view handling as a subjective thing.

    Just to put things in perspective, I don't like the way WRX's/STi's feel. They are ballasted all wrong. I prefer the feel of the EVO. Though I'll take a mid-engine RWD over all of them.
    Mmmmmm MR.

    Quote Originally Posted by AngelBoy
    well you make good points but there is a strong kinship b/w a 911 and a good handling FWD car
    Yeah if you were driving the car in reverse and steering with the rear tires. I can't believe this is still being argued about.
    New England F4

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisCJ99 View Post
    205 whp on a STOCK wrx??? I find that to be a bit hard to believe. My 2006 WRX ran 188 whp with Injen CAI, HKS BOV, HKS Downpipe and HKS carbon ti exhaust... How can a STOCK WRX run 205 whp??? I'd like to see dyno sheets to back that one up...

  4. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trainable
    Yeah if you were driving the car in reverse and steering with the rear tires. I can't believe this is still being argued about.
    if hooking up a steering rack is the only difference, then there isn't much of a difference.
    embattled, we prevail...only victory exhaled.

  5. #169
    Administrator RayfieldsWRX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trainrex
    Skidpad numbers, yes. Overall feeling, no. I view handling as a subjective thing.
    Exactly. Enjoy your FWD experience...I would suggest a different forum if you're trying to create FWD believers, though. Most people here (myself included) think of it as "wrong-wheel-drive".

    BTW, my 5-speed in my WRX was just fine, thank you, even through a turbocharger upgrade. (Don't know why that's relevant to this discussion, but you seemed hellbent on telling me "what I know")

    <sniff, sniff>
    I think this debate has gone to rot..
    Last edited by RayfieldsWRX; 12-19-2005 at 03:53 PM.
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  6. #170
    Moderator YBNormal07's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AngelBoy

    and a Neon ACR will rape a WRX on a road course and you know it. i think all in all, if you don't give those wheels too much power, a well setup FWD car can give the same smiles per mile.
    Where or where do you get your information from? A road course? You mean something that doesn't involve cones right? I never thought I'd post this here but...LOL. No way...not in this world, not in this lifetime. A short track....maybe with good tires. The ACR was competitive when...5 years ago? Things have changed a bit since then.
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  7. #171
    Moderator YBNormal07's Avatar
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    Also, Angleboy....you've got some good comments, but I'm not sure about your perspective. Compaing a rear engined, RWD or AWD sports car to a Front engined, FWD car is nothing like the same concept. Please explain how they are? The contact patch on the FWD is always doing double duty in trying to put power down to the road and steer at the seame time. The physics are against it from the start.

    Please give a singe example of a FWD car that has dominated in any officially sanctioned road sport where it ran against rear wheel drive competitors that weren't heavily penalized due to previous success. For that matter, please provide a single popular example of a professional road course type event that involves FWD.

    I'll be the first to admit that regardless of the platform, I enjoy watching anything with a motor and tires run...anything. What I think you are missing the point of is that most of use here aren't simply dismissing FWD due to it's engineering vs RWD....we simply hate how it feels and translates in a performance environment. At least with a RWD you can steer with the throttle, brakes, or steering wheel. You can't use the throttle for steering in the FWD car, so that takes 50% of the fun out of it. The BEST feeling in the world is powering out of corner, just at the limit of adhesion, giving it all you've got, and feeling the rear end drifting out just slightly while you feed in a little countersteer. This is posible only in a RWD or AWD platform. You can't do it in FWD, plain and simple (unless you feel like throttle steering yourself right off the track).
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  8. #172
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    ok ok i've got some explaining to do....

    Ray,

    I'm not trying to convince you that FWD 0wNz aLL....i just think it was unfair that the Si took a bashing just because it was FWD...then i went off on a huge tangent, but my point was simply that FWD can still be fun.

    and to everybody else,

    i admit i got off on a tangent with everything else. the only reason i threw a 911 in the mix was because it's proof that anything is possible: a rear engine car is just wrong in so many ways. heck, on paper, a musclecar would have better balance. but for many decades the 911 has been kicking ass because Porsche wanted it to.

    so even though FWD is wrong in so many ways, Honda knew how vital it was to make the Si kick ass, and honestly it looks like they did a good job. 8000rpm, a slick 6 speed, a limited slip, great slalom and skidpad numbers, and a nice quality feel. not bad, for the same price as my Mazda 3.

    it's nice to get into arguments with you guys 'cause you keep me in line, i admit i tend to bark a little loudly sometimes.
    embattled, we prevail...only victory exhaled.

  9. #173
    Registered User Herknav's Avatar
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    I think that Honda decided to put a lot into the new Si... market share means everything... they can probably expect previous Honda owners back, but apealing to the fringe buyers... the ones who want a *taste* of that "tuner" culture but don't really want to do anything... those are the ones they seem to be targetting... look at the advertisement for it...
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  10. #174
    Administrator RayfieldsWRX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AngelBoy
    so even though FWD is wrong in so many ways, Honda knew how vital it was to make the Si kick ass, and honestly it looks like they did a good job. 8000rpm, a slick 6 speed, a limited slip, great slalom and skidpad numbers, and a nice quality feel. not bad, for the same price as my Mazda 3.
    Hey, I'm not really knocking the Si as a car. I think for many who like FWD it's an excellent choice for the money, as you said. I haven't driven the newer Si. I did drive last year's model in a spirited fashion. (a coworker's car) I thought it was a nicely balanced, nimble little car, even if I didn't like the FWD feel. It didn't feel very quick to me, but at the time I was driving a VF34'd WRX, so I think it suffered by comparison.
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  11. #175
    Registered User StupidMan's Avatar
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    FWD cars can be pretty bad ass. I watched the Sport Compact Car competition on Speed channel, and the FWD Cobalt built by Chevrolet smoked everyone (awd,rwd, and other fwd's)by like 3 seconds, and almost broke the record for that road course. I can't remember the details, but If I see it again, I will post them up. I know there were high powered supra's, sti's, skylines...and I think there was even an exotic or two.
    I remember they were running a stock cobalt engine with an upgraded pulley for the SC for +/- 260hp. And then they had like 100 or 150 shot of nitrous, and that was it for power. Of course it had race tuned suspension, and a professional driver. And of course it was built with the limitless funds of Chevy.
    So theoretically, if someone put a SC on the Civic Si, and had the right suspension/tires, some nitrous, millions of beans for backup....they could be kicking our awd butts on the road courses. Then again, the same could be said for the wrx....turbo's/suspension/cow dung...and we are on our way.
    stupidman has spoken

  12. #176
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    I just bought an 06 WRX.. i test drove both the SI and the RSX S

    and those 2 cars are Really slow dont wanna burst your buble but they pretty freaking slow you feel no pull no torque its like driving a 91 Civic~ my 93 prelude SI with the H23 i beat a 2004 with full catback and headers Rsx-S by 1 car length so i dont know what your talking about i drove them both and they are both slow i will race ya for money with my 06 Stock to your stock Si 06 ~

    your reading on those cars i drove them big difference from reading and driving them i'm not hating on honda just your dumb those cars are not faster then the sub. Period. i will put money on it.

  13. #177
    Registered User ScoobVee's Avatar
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    wow...

    way to keep this thread alive
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  14. #178
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    doesn't BTCC mix FWD with RWD's????? Sure some FWD's can be set-up to be halfway fun and fast, I'd much rather be racing in some kinda RWD. I can't honestly think of any racer I work with that prefers FWD....maybe 1, Stephan who used to race a prelude in SPEED touring, but I know for a fact that if he was to put in effort into that series again, he wouldn't do it in a FWD again.... Even though that is aseries this year that was succesful with FWD versus RWD. Didn't Mazda win this year's championship pretty easy?? Against beemers and such..Of course Randy Pobst can and WILL drive the wheels off anything he gets in..

    Anyway, about the only thing I enjoy about driving our ACR neons at work, besides the noises they make, is that it's "like a box a chocolates" You never now what ya gonna get.Will it try to torque-steer itself into the driver's left wall exiting the corkscrew....will it try to drive us off into the sound booth driver's right coming out of five...??????? I'm confident in my abilities, so I'm never scared of it, but at least it keeps me awake. Did I mention I do like the sounds they make??? Owww... the adjustable damping is cool to......to play jokes on the other instructors at least...

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