Cts-v?

[MidKnight]

I don't think so man. If you look at the reliability rankings for the past few years for new cars, you'll find that most of them are domestics (I'll try to dig it up later). You'll also find different results depending on who conducts the survey. Frankly, some automotive magizines have such a big import bias, it's laughable. However, from personal experience (yeah, I know its not scientific), my family has owned both domestic imports, and the domestics have on average, FAR outlasted the imports we've had. This included an 89 Caddilac (still ticking strong with 260K miles), a Honda Accord that didn't last long, Chevy Baretta that's I've since given to a friend that's lasted forever (I forget how many miles), and my current car that has one of the world's most reliable engines in it. Granted, I'm a little biased towards domestics, but that's because I go with what works for me. There's also quite a few imports that I like (most Acura's and of course the STI)

Anyway--Carry on Carry on (That sounds like a song)

Ironically, my family used to own nothing but domestics, but they ALL let us down. Now, it's all imports and not a complaint from anyone except me because I keep breaking ****, but that's my fault! And for every automotive magazine that has an import bias, there's one that has a domestic bias (and most of the import bias is for germans anyway). I think you got one of the only accords on the planet that didn't last long. My gf's acconrd has over 200k miles with only a broken radiator to show for it! And ironically, Consumer reports rated the GTP as one of the least reliable sedans on the market (this was in Nov '04). With all that said, I'm not a fanboy. There are a ton of domestic cars that I would gladly own but most of them are either too big or don't have awd. I was actually contemplating getting a 300C with AWD not too long ago! It is a bit big but such a nice car...

[Shaitiger]

If you can afford the CTS-V, buy it. If I was in the market for purchasing a 45-55K automobile, the STi wouldn't even be on my list of considerations. Like others have said, an STi vs CTS-V is like apples and oranges.

[uke]

Point taken, and I realize that we're not going to convince each other otherwise (shrug). However ...

And ironically, Consumer reports rated the GTP as one of the least reliable sedans on the market (this was in Nov '04)

I read this same report. The non-supercharged GP was listed as most reliable while the supercharged version, which is the EXACT SAME CAR (just with a supercharger) got least reliable billing. This is why I think some car magazines are a joke. How does a car go from most reliable to LEAST when adding on a supercharger to an engine that has adapted to superchargers extremely well for over 10 years? That, and the only difference is still on a 3800 engine that even the most hardcore import fanboy (I'm not saying you ) would have to admit is one of the most reliable engines period. It makes no sense whatsoever.

Anyway, this is getting off track. What was the topic...oh yeah

The CTS-V is an amazing car. If you can afford it, I'd be all over it.

[wrxtony]

Holy cow, talk about import bias ignorance at its finest

First of all, the CTS-V is a Cadillac, not a Chevy (yes, I know they're both GM, but that's not the point).

Carry on

Hmm ... you think the Cadillac is not a Chevy? Yeah you ARE ignorant. And it's not bias, it's a fact. Reliability among GMs, and yes, in case you're not aware, a Cadillac IS a GM product, which IS the point, has been in question recently.

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news03/cad_cts.html

http://www.newsday.com/business/nati...ness-headlines

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news02/gm_recall.html

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news02/gm_suvs2.html

And just to show I'm not being biased:
http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news0...ru_recall.html

[uke]

Hmm ... you think the Cadillac is not a Chevy? Yeah you ARE ignorant. And it's not bias, it's a fact. Reliability among GMs, and yes, in case you're not aware, a Cadillac IS a GM product, which IS the point, has been in question recently.

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news03/cad_cts.html

http://www.newsday.com/business/nati...ness-headlines

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news02/gm_recall.html

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news02/gm_suvs2.html

And just to show I'm not being biased:
http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news0...ru_recall.html

Dangit, me and Midknight were having a nice civil debate, and I was even done saying my piece, and then you just HAD to stir the pot again .

First, every auto manufacturer has had to recall vehicles, including Subaru (which you pointed out).

Second, I will admit that I'm biased towards GM products (though I still like other cars, foreign and domestic) as pretty much all of our cars are GM cars which include a 96 Cadillac Concourse, 76 Cadillac Eldorado, 01 Grand Prix GTP, 01 Monte Carlo SS and 89 Cadillac DeVille (with over 260K miles). We also used to have an Astro van (with well over 200K) and a 91 Baretta. Out of all of these cars, I can count the number of major reliability issues (outside of normal wear and tear) on about two fingers. We go with what hasn't failed us yet, though I realize that others have had a different experience.

Third, even with the reliability issues, in the event that something does break, it will (usually) cost a lot less to repair a domestic than an import.

Fourth, even with all of that said, the CTS-V is still an amazing car.

CARRY ON!!

[DTR rex]

Third, even with the reliability issues, in the event that something does break, it will (usually) cost a lot less to repair a domestic than an import.

not anymore. Names like Nissan, Honda, Toyota, Subaru, etc.. are just as domestic in America as Domestic vehicles. Parts are readily available for them and they are not expensive like they used to be. I encourage you to compare replacement parts and labor on a CTS-V compared to other import cars discussed here like the LGT, Honda Accord, etc...
Sure they are completely different vehicles, but you walked yourself into that trap when you brought it up

I have also noticed that much of what you say pertaining to "imports" is mostly directed at German cars. Car mag's usually dont really have an import bias, but more so a German car bias. And parts on Japanese imports are not really expensive anymore.. its the German cars, etc... Oh yeah, and as for your magazine bias, why is it that the SRT4 always places well in comparo's, or the Cobalt SS just beat out the RSX-S as a sport coupe, and the new C6 corvette has won every comparo it has been in

You might have good luck with your American cars, but statistics do not lie. Maybe imports are generally more prefered because on average they last longer, have more power, handle better, and get better gas mileage all for a pretty similar price.

[uke]

Hey, who invited you to this conversation? I don't want to hear your "logic" and "facts"

(I don't even remember what we were talking about anymore) (shrug)

[wrxtony]

Yeah I'm late to the party as usual. Well if it makes you feel better in the past few years I've owned a Ford Exploder, a Chevy Cadavrelier and a Dodge Dynamite as my winter cars. The MR2 I had broke all the time, but that's what happens when you go to the track every week.

Oh and the CTS-V IS an amazing car. But trying to decide whether to get a CTS-V or an STI? That's apples and oranges. If you can afford to spend $50,000 why buy the STI? Like I said at the beginning of this thread ... I'd buy a Lotus Elise for $40Grr and have a turbo kit installed. That would be ... AWESOME.

[DTR rex]

Hey, who invited you to this conversation? I don't want to hear your "logic" and "facts"

(I don't even remember what we were talking about anymore) (shrug)

I

I invited myself and last I checked we were talking about the insanity of how freaking huge my p3nis is.

[Gloveperson]

Subaru is parted owned by GM. I guess we should all make fun of Subaru for that, too.

The CTS-V is not a drag car..too much wheel-hop...but it runs around a race course faster than the Germans. I drove one and it is as fast as a C5 from a roll (once you get past that wheel-hop) and was a real nice luxo-cruiser. The fastest time I have ever seen for a stock CTS-V was a 12.8 (05..if that makes a difference) and that guy could drive. He got a 1.9 60 footer with that wheel-hoppin car.

BTW, to the reliability guy:

http://www.jdpower.com/news/releases/vds2005089.asp

Looks like Subaru is LOWER than Chevrolet.

[Electric-Mayhem]

Uke,

I will start out with saying that I tend towards non-american cars with my tastes. That said I must say that while the engine in the Grand Prix's may be steady and long lasting, it seems rare these days to see one that is more then a year old that doesn't have a broken body piece or one falling off or the paint coming off. Maybe its just the type of person who owns them (at least in Colorado they seem to be a lower middle class car for people who tend to beat the crap out of their stuff and not fix it), but they don't seem to be that reliable car in the exterior area. This has been found from my observations only, so maybe I'm not seeing the good ones.

I think thats the thing with american cars, they spend so much time on the Engine that everything else kinda gets done half assed. I think they are pulling out of this a bit, as American cars are beggining to compete in handling and such, but interior build quality on many of them still sucks. Lots of crapy plastics and stuff. Not saying that non-domestics don't suffer from this too, but it seems to be prevalent in American cars more then our Asian and European counterparts (the french don't count).

That said, the CTS-V was specifically designed to compete with the BMW 3 series, Audi A4/6, and whatever the equivalent Merc is. For style and grace it can't even hold a stick to the European guys, but its got good handling and power. Unfortunetly there are two things wrong with it. First, its plagued by the stereotype that Caddys have of being for old people. Secondly, the kind of people who would want to buy this car are looking for more then just a car that can go fast and handle well. They are looking for the style and functionality that so far American cars have not been able to provide. American cars are catching up, but they have a ways to go yet. Japan seems to have done allright with Lexus, Infinity and Acura, but the Germans have it down pat (as do some of the British cars, but they are all American or German owned anyways). Until a Chevy, Caddy, Ford or Dodge can make a car that can wail around a racetrack, and then push a button to calm it down and make it quiet and civilized enough for a long trip, and not have the interior feel like its gonna fall apart, we'll be set. Its coming, but not here.

JH

[Slick:6:STi]

From what I have seen it is a much younger than the typical Caddy crowd that is buying the CTS-V, it attracts many young buyers to the Caddilac name, which is the main reason why they made the car, and it is incredibly badazz. As for style your opinion on it being worse than the Germans is your opinion. I think the Caddy is much better looking than any other car in it's price range, M3 included, well until the GT 500 comes out anyway. Wasn't the 5 series design trashed by absolutely everyone? The 3 series is going to be just as ugly, just smaller, and the Audis can't even compete with this caddy, their blob shapes are very VW generic.

I know "most" import guys can't admit that a domestic is better than the competition, but I think it is about time some of you guys swallowed your hubris and admit that some domestics are better. Is it really that hard? This is like that Z06/NSX discussion that was just up last week. WHy would you take the slower, worse handling, more expensive NSX over the new Z06? Because it looks cooler? Or because you think it is more rare? Sorry but those are lame reasons to hide your import bias. The Z and the CTS V are sick cars and are better than their current competition (well the competition we are talking about). Sorry for the rant but it had to be said.

[Electric-Mayhem]

Yes, the younger crowd maybe going for the CTS-V, but style is objective, and I was more meaning the total package. For a person buying the car, what it looks like on the outside often takes a step down from what the interior is like. The European cars definetly have superior style and build quality inside the car. The CTS-V and several other American cars are cheaper yet have more power and equal handling, but fall down on the interior.

That said, I think American cars are looking the best they have ever looked from an exterior design standpoint. I love the look of the new Mustang, the New Dodge Charge, 300c, and it doesn't stop there. The CTS is allright but I like other cars better. It seems that they have gotten away from the mediocre styling and cheap bodies of the past finally. Now they just need to get the inside right. Its mostly materials and build quality that I have an issue with (disclaimer: I own a WRX, which is not legendary for interior materials and quality, but its hard to find any car in the 20k range that is these days, and with the new 06 styling has gotten even worse from a style point of view).

As for Beemer styling, I personally dig the look of the new 5,6, and 7 series. It is a bit busy, but its also agressive and powerfull looking. Many find it ugly, but many find alot of cars ugly, including the CTS. I do, however, hate the looks of the 1 and 3 series. The 1 series looks all slumpy in the middle and doppy in the front, plus it has none of the go of a beemer. Not sure if we'll see this car here, but its designed to compete with cars like the VW GTI and equivalent. Beemers answer to the Hot Hatch as it were. The 3 series I don't even wanna talk about. As far as I can tell, it lacks any style whatsoever, either good or bad. I saw one going down the street last week and thought it was a Hyundai till I looked harder. I think that they will have a total dud with this car in terms of attracting new customers, which is too bad because from what I hear the engine and handling and everything is as good as ever, it just lacks the flair of a beemer.

Last thing, I think its awesome that America has finally found that its good to make a car go through the twisties well. We are finally getting away from pure straight line power and actually making cars that can handle. Southpaw, even you will admit that until recently the Vettes and its counterparts couldn't hold a stick to the European and even Japanese on a race track without some serious mods. I'm psyched at the fact that alot of the new American cars spend a decent amount of time at the Nurburging to make sure the handling and suspension and the like is up to scratch (the Vette and CTS-V included).

JH

[Slick:6:STi]

The interior on the CTS V is actually pretty friggin nice. The seats are incredible and it comes with the large touch screen BS that all the import cars come with. The car is really amazing, check one out befor passing final judgement. You might be surprised.

As for the 3 Series, I think the new M3 is the most dissapointing car that will be coming out. It has the same power #s, and uglier body and probably weighs more than the e46. This is from all of the info I have seen on it. I really hope they upped the power, otherwise you are better off getting an e46 over the new ugly one.

[uke]

BTW, to the reliability guy:

http://www.jdpower.com/news/releases/vds2005089.asp

Looks like Subaru is LOWER than Chevrolet.

Looking through that list, I see a LOT of Chevys, Buicks, and Cadillacs in the top spots for reliability (all GM cars). hmmm.....