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This is a discussion on Integra type "R" within the Comparison: WRX vs World forums, part of the Community - Meet other Enthusiasts category; The Integra type R is not made for straight line speed, such is the case with all of Honda's sports ...

  1. #16
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    The Integra type R is not made for straight line speed, such is the case with all of Honda's sports cars (ITR, S2k, and NSX).

    If you own a type R, and simply use it for straight line streetracing to you.

    These cars are made for the autox and roadcourse, end of story. While from a roll the caR may stand up to a stock WRX in a straight line, you will get your a** handed to you in the twisties, end of story.
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  3. #17
    Registered User 04wrx4keeps's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DTR rex
    I ran VERY close with a stock Evo in my GSR from a roll. We were on 290 heading west towards woodfield rd. I came off of the Elgin O'Hare/Thorndale exit and he was coming from 355 going west as well... At about 45mph we played around upto about 55mph where we ran from about 55mph - 70mph. He put a good 2 or so cars on me, but then we went again from 60mph - 115 or so and I was right at his rear doors when we hit 90mph or so and held pretty strong there.
    luckily we never ran into a light.
    What mods did you have on your GSR? A stock evo traps around 10mph higher than a stock GSR...so that doesnt really add up....
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  4. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by 04wrx4keeps
    What mods did you have on your GSR? A stock evo traps around 10mph higher than a stock GSR...so that doesnt really add up....
    stock GSR traps around 94mph and stock Evo traps about 101mph. Not 10mph difference, more like 7 or so. Also, each run we did, I did the honking so I got a little bit of a jump, but not enough to really change the outcome of a race. Also, we ran upto 115mph and as I said, he was pulling on me about a car and after about 90mph I inched up due to the 8200rpm redline and topend pull and by the time we ended I was stuck solid on his rear door/gas tank.

    mods were: intake, race-header, catback, test-pipe, Digital V-TEC AFC Controller, intake manifold, pulley set, clutch, flywheel, sts, etc.....
    wasn't exactly a straight line beast, but it moved. My best 1/4mile run was a 14.6 with crap ass all season tires that were faded. I was looking for a 14.4 with better tires and low 14's with an EMS and cams but sold the car for my subbie before hand. Great car, but just didn't do what I wanted it to. I really miss the high rev's and topend pull though.
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  5. #19
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    All of the stock (or lightly modded) GSR's I see at the track hit 90-92 tops. and I would hardly say a 7mph trap difference isnt much different than 10, its still a considerable amount, and a sizable loss.

    And when your comparing a high revving-vtec engine in its powerband (60 should be right around ideal rpms, I know most hondas I've driven hit V-TEC a bit before there in 3rd) to a turbo starting off boost, getting a little jump will make a big difference with his turbo lag, so i could see it with that level of mod, you were probably trapping what 95-96?. I have a friend with a 97 hatch with a B16, Type-R pistons, ITR cams, and various other mods; he pulls runs in the 14.5-14.7 range at around 94-95, seems like that would be similer 1/4 mile to trap speed (a little less whp but a little less weight too, with similer powerbands).

    I would have wondered if the Evo was in a different gear for the 2nd run though. I mean 2 cars from 55-70, but then you start 5mph later and go to 110 and ur on his bumper sounds like he duffed a shift, and you caught up to me.
    Last edited by 04wrx4keeps; 07-14-2005 at 11:12 AM.
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  6. #20
    Registered User DTR rex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 04wrx4keeps
    All of the stock (or lightly modded) GSR's I see at the track hit 90-92 tops. and I would hardly say a 7mph trap difference isnt much different than 10, its still a considerable amount, and a sizable loss.

    And when your comparing a high revving-vtec engine in its powerband (60 should be right around ideal rpms, I know most hondas I've driven hit V-TEC a bit before there in 3rd) to a turbo starting off boost, getting a little jump will make a big difference with his turbo lag, so i could see it with that level of mod, you were probably trapping what 95-96?. I have a friend with a 97 hatch with a B16, Type-R pistons, ITR cams, and various other mods; he pulls runs in the 14.5-14.7 range at around 94-95, seems like that would be similer 1/4 mile to trap speed (a little less whp but a little less weight too, with similer powerbands).

    I would have wondered if the Evo was in a different gear for the 2nd run though. I mean 2 cars from 55-70, but then you start 5mph later and go to 110 and ur on his bumper sounds like he duffed a shift, and you caught up to me.
    1) I am not sure if he was off boost, but it is very likely... Either way, for being off boost he still pulled on me at first and I was able to catch up to his rear door at about 90-100mph.

    2) The first time when he put those 2 cars on me I did the honking but he got an early jump (went after second honk anticipating the third) and that is how he put 2 cars on me so fast. Next run I got a bit of a jump but he still pulled me but around 100mph I was right on his rear.

    3) GSR's that are properly driven stock should be trapping better than 91mph. I never ran my car stock but my maxima I had before did trap at 90mph and this car pulled significantly harder stock. As I said, I would say around 93mph atleast then. Also, with my mods I pulled a 14.6 with crapass tires so I think I could have possibly gone 14.4/14.5 with better ones. I dont think I was trapping quite where the evo was (around 100mph) but I was probably only 1 or 2 mph behind and the fact that I got the jump on the second one and we ran PAST 100mph (upto 115) I think this scenario is more than credible.
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  7. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by DTR rex
    1) I am not sure if he was off boost, but it is very likely... Either way, for being off boost he still pulled on me at first and I was able to catch up to his rear door at about 90-100mph.

    2) The first time when he put those 2 cars on me I did the honking but he got an early jump (went after second honk anticipating the third) and that is how he put 2 cars on me so fast. Next run I got a bit of a jump but he still pulled me but around 100mph I was right on his rear.

    3) GSR's that are properly driven stock should be trapping better than 91mph. I never ran my car stock but my maxima I had before did trap at 90mph and this car pulled significantly harder stock. As I said, I would say around 93mph atleast then. Also, with my mods I pulled a 14.6 with crapass tires so I think I could have possibly gone 14.4/14.5 with better ones. I dont think I was trapping quite where the evo was (around 100mph) but I was probably only 1 or 2 mph behind and the fact that I got the jump on the second one and we ran PAST 100mph (upto 115) I think this scenario is more than credible.
    As far as the GSR goes, 90-91 is being generous. The majority that I have seen at the track are in the high 80's, with a few well driven cars in the low 90's. How fast a car "feels" it not the best way to say how fast it is, the cars weight and torque and all sorts of other factors will decide how fast it "feels". My stock RSX-S trapped 94-95, and thats with more whp than a GSR makes at the crank, not to mention better gearing and bearly 100lbs more weight. And I'm not alone, check clubrsx.net....lots of other stock 02-04 S's in the 93-95mph range. I never lost to a GSR on the street, although the most modded one I raced was only i/e according to what he said

    The whole evo story just sounds like BS the more you explain it. First you say you got the jump, now your saying he did? Not to mention you admit he would trap higher, but for some reasone that means that you'll catch up because you ran to over 100 I'll remember that next time I pull up beside a C6, he traps higher than me so all I have to do keep going till OVER 100 and ill beat him right? .....
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  8. #22
    Registered User DTR rex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 04wrx4keeps
    As far as the GSR goes, 90-91 is being generous. The majority that I have seen at the track are in the high 80's, with a few well driven cars in the low 90's. How fast a car "feels" it not the best way to say how fast it is, the cars weight and torque and all sorts of other factors will decide how fast it "feels". My stock RSX-S trapped 94-95, and thats with more whp than a GSR makes at the crank, not to mention better gearing and bearly 100lbs more weight. And I'm not alone, check clubrsx.net....lots of other stock 02-04 S's in the 93-95mph range. I never lost to a GSR on the street, although the most modded one I raced was only i/e according to what he said

    The whole evo story just sounds like BS the more you explain it. First you say you got the jump, now your saying he did? Not to mention you admit he would trap higher, but for some reasone that means that you'll catch up because you ran to over 100 I'll remember that next time I pull up beside a C6, he traps higher than me so all I have to do keep going till OVER 100 and ill beat him right? .....
    reading comprehension > you.

    I am not going to further argue the trap speeds of a stock GSR with you. I will show you my slip if I can dig it up.
    In reference to your poor argument for why you consider my story bs:
    I said I got the jump on the second run... the one that I was on his rear. It was the first run that he got the jump (anticipated the honk) and that is why he put 2 cars on me so quickly (a question you asked and I answered earlier).
    I never claimed to have the faster trap speed. A stock Evo will still trap 2-3 mph higher than my GSR did, the reasons for why I hung so close I made rather evident in my other posts. Not only did I get the jump but we ran until 115mph and although he traps higher you cannot use that as a 100% indiction of race outcomes. I got the jump, but he still pulled and by 90mph I was holding ground and past 100mph he was not pulling on me and I was at his rear... these above reasons paired with which gear he may have been in creates this very situation.
    I never claimed to be faster than a stock evo, I simply said I hung with a stock evo and gave rather concrete evidence for why I would have done so.
    I could really care less if you believe me about hanging with an evo in a car I no longer own, and an event that took place over a year ago. I am done with this, I highly suggest you read my post atleast 3 times and hopefully that allow the info to soak in a little better so you can fully understand the aspects of the situation being refered to
    Last edited by DTR rex; 07-18-2005 at 02:37 AM.
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  9. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by DTR rex
    1) I never ran my car stock but my maxima I had before did trap at 90mph and this car pulled significantly harder stock
    Well if this is true then how will you show me your timeslips to proove me wrong? I COMPREHENDED what you wrote completely, its just every time you post you add new information that doesnt add up to the rest of your stories.

    As far as running the Evo, whatever, like you said you dont have the car anymore, and anything can happen on the street. If the Evo sucked at shifting, he goes 3-4 (or maybe 4-5 at those speeds, no reason he couldnt have short shifted), and as he shifts you're still pulling in a gear, I suppose you would catch back up. Especially if he short shifted it could leave you on his bumper for a bit with him pulling more as speeds increased, but you didnt keep going too long so that would make some sense. I'm really just giving you a hard time because I've debated with you on other post about storys very similer to yours, just from the other side of the argument, (for example: '05 Sti vs. '01 TransAM WS6 for example:

    Quote Originally Posted by DTR rex
    I am quite firmiliar with what LS1's are capable of, and a catback STi SHOULD NOT be beating a well driven 6spd WS6 w/ Ypipe. It is as simple as that. The LS1 is plain and simply a faster car from a roll. I am not calling bs on this guy, I am just saying that machine vs. machine in this circumstance, the LS1 is the faster car here.
    You're trying to argue the exact same point with me that I was arguing to you about that story, except the STi only claimed to stay even. I dont like when people act hypocritical, so I'm just giving you a hard time...dont take it to heart.

    Also please dont assume that I dont know the dynamics involved in racing. I've been racing cars myself for close to 6 years now both on and off the track, and have raced and watched thousand of different combinations of cars. Not to mention I've personally owned and raced 10 differnt cars (including 2 camaros, a mustang GT, supra, the RSX-S, an M package 328is, 91 Civic Si, 87MR2, and of course the WRX, all at various stages of tune, not to mention racing countless friends cars for them because they thought I could drive better), so please dont try and talk to me like somehow I dont know whats going on in a race, just because I dont spend all my time on the internet and dont have 1000's of posts doesnt mean I somehow dont have the experience to back up my arguments...ok? ....
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  10. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by 04wrx4keeps
    Well if this is true then how will you show me your timeslips to proove me wrong? I COMPREHENDED what you wrote completely, its just every time you post you add new information that doesnt add up to the rest of your stories.

    As far as running the Evo, whatever, like you said you dont have the car anymore, and anything can happen on the street. If the Evo sucked at shifting, he goes 3-4 (or maybe 4-5 at those speeds, no reason he couldnt have short shifted), and as he shifts you're still pulling in a gear, I suppose you would catch back up. Especially if he short shifted it could leave you on his bumper for a bit with him pulling more as speeds increased, but you didnt keep going too long so that would make some sense. I'm really just giving you a hard time because I've debated with you on other post about storys very similer to yours, just from the other side of the argument, (for example: '05 Sti vs. '01 TransAM WS6 for example:

    You're trying to argue the exact same point with me that I was arguing to you about that story, except the STi only claimed to stay even. I dont like when people act hypocritical, so I'm just giving you a hard time...dont take it to heart.

    Also please dont assume that I dont know the dynamics involved in racing. I've been racing cars myself for close to 6 years now both on and off the track, and have raced and watched thousand of different combinations of cars. Not to mention I've personally owned and raced 10 differnt cars (including 2 camaros, a mustang GT, supra, the RSX-S, an M package 328is, 91 Civic Si, 87MR2, and of course the WRX, all at various stages of tune, not to mention racing countless friends cars for them because they thought I could drive better), so please dont try and talk to me like somehow I dont know whats going on in a race, just because I dont spend all my time on the internet and dont have 1000's of posts doesnt mean I somehow dont have the experience to back up my arguments...ok? ....

    I love people like you... You keep talking and basically try to refute points with an argument that is seemingly useless or inconsistant with the topic at hand. I think we can both agree that while I did stick with the Evo, there other circumstances at hand that allowd for such a close run. As you said, short shifting, gear choice, me getting the jump the second time, etc...
    As for the reference to the WS6 vs STi story...... That is precisely it. I never said the guy's story was complete bs, I simply told him that CAR VS CAR the WS6 should beat an STi. I just made the point to let the guy know that although he won the race, if both drivers were equal the WS6 should have won. In this case, with my GSR vs the Evo it was rather similar. I never claimed to have the faster car, I just simply said that I hung with an Evo. Were there other factorys at play that could have aided my close run? yes. In fact we have gone over those in this post time and time again. Had I not gotten the jump and had the Evo driver gotten optimum shift points and gear selection he probably would have beat me by more. But he didn't.. so I hung on his ass
    Again, with the reading comprehension: I never stated I owned the faster machine, I simply stated I hung with one. Just like with the WS6 vs STi. Did the STi win? Yeah... is the STi the faster car in those cirumstances? Usually, no.

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  11. #25
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    Well at least it sounds like were on the same level finally. The tone in your writing deffinatly sounded like you were trying to taut you mighty GSR, and with thousands of honda fan-boys in my area I never stop hearing BS storys of, ones I know to be, gutless civics and integras running down faster cars. Add to that the fact that you kept refering to you E/T's in the GSR and never actually giving your trap (other than a rough estimate) just led me to think there were holes in your story. And as far as the LS1 STi refference I made, if you didnt mean to make it sound that way then sorry, but to me it just sounded like you're posts were sarcastically telling him "oh sure, nice win, but you should have been smoked". I take some offense to this as one of my first posts on this forum (WRX vs world) was about racing an LS1, and even though he won, and the story was completely true, people gave me pages hell for it, so that toppic also strikes a nerve with me, and when people blatently make assumptions like "he should have won" it gets me irritated, especially if thier story sounds intellegant and believable. I guess your style of writing just conflicted with what I thought you were saying, maybe just try being a little less harsh in your argumens, I always find the more you try to offend (like the remark about reading comprehension) the weaker your argument sounds. As far as playing again...I'm always up to talk about cars, and i love a good debate, so bring it on...
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  12. #26
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    what a hijack, haha.
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  13. #27
    Registered User DTR rex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 04wrx4keeps
    Well at least it sounds like were on the same level finally. The tone in your writing deffinatly sounded like you were trying to taut you mighty GSR, and with thousands of honda fan-boys in my area I never stop hearing BS storys of, ones I know to be, gutless civics and integras running down faster cars. Add to that the fact that you kept refering to you E/T's in the GSR and never actually giving your trap (other than a rough estimate) just led me to think there were holes in your story. And as far as the LS1 STi refference I made, if you didnt mean to make it sound that way then sorry, but to me it just sounded like you're posts were sarcastically telling him "oh sure, nice win, but you should have been smoked". I take some offense to this as one of my first posts on this forum (WRX vs world) was about racing an LS1, and even though he won, and the story was completely true, people gave me pages hell for it, so that toppic also strikes a nerve with me, and when people blatently make assumptions like "he should have won" it gets me irritated, especially if thier story sounds intellegant and believable. I guess your style of writing just conflicted with what I thought you were saying, maybe just try being a little less harsh in your argumens, I always find the more you try to offend (like the remark about reading comprehension) the weaker your argument sounds. As far as playing again...I'm always up to talk about cars, and i love a good debate, so bring it on...

    In reference to the LS1 story and others that are similar, I have no problem telling people they should have lost. I will always tell someone "good kill" or "nice job"... BUT if the other car is faster I always let them know because you dont want them under a misconception that their car is faster than it really is and beating cars that techinically it should not beat given equal drivers.
    The reason the reading comprehension remark was because I had to reiterate several points over and over again and it seemed like it was going in one ear and out the other.. it was becoming rather tedious and seemed like you were only going to listen to what you wanted to hear.
    As for my e.t. it was a 14.6 @ 98.6mph

    Glad we are on the same page now and have cleared the air of any misapprehensions.
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