21 psi STi versus M3 SC (Vid) - Page 2
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This is a discussion on 21 psi STi versus M3 SC (Vid) within the Comparison: WRX vs World forums, part of the Community - Meet other Enthusiasts category; Originally Posted by MidKnight That's the most important thing here. 400whp on one dyno can be 350whp on another and ...

  1. #16
    Registered User Digitalfiend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MidKnight
    That's the most important thing here. 400whp on one dyno can be 350whp on another and 450whp on another. Regardless of which car dyno'ed at what level, we obviously know which one is faster.
    If you read the thread over on the M3 forum, it is hinted at that they dynoed at the same place; that is how they met and decided to set up a race.

    Either way, it is definitely the gearing, slightly less power, and drag that did the STi in. In regards to drag, sure the drag co-efficients are the same for the two cars but the frontal area differences are probably pretty different.

    I also don't think the STi lost THAT badly. I certainly wouldn't be ashamed to lose to a 416whp M3...

    The really interesting race they are setting up is with a Porsche 911 X50. That thing should be more of a challenge...it is heavier but also more aerodynamic (I think).
    Last edited by Digitalfiend; 05-22-2005 at 10:54 PM.
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  3. #17
    Registered User DTR rex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrianH
    Either way you look at it, that m3's hot
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  4. #18
    Moderator MidKnight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digitalfiend
    If you read the thread over on the M3 forum, it is hinted at that they dynoed at the same place; that is how they met and decided to set up a race.
    I hadn't read that much of the thread. You're absolutely right....
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  5. #19
    Boba Fett BrianH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DTR rex
    will you buy me one sugar daddy?
    no

  6. #20
    Registered User AwdTurboWrx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrianH
    Doubt it's gearing M3 and sti are pretty damn close in gearing when comparing the 6mt's with the exception that the m3's got a taller first

    It's really hard to tell about the torque curve without knowing anything about the sti,plus with its short gearing starting at 60 it wouldn't matter very long. With stock shift points on the usdm 6mt you should be getting into the next gear right around 5500rpms which combined iwth the load at higher speeds would put you in your sweet spot on most larger turbos.

    I just chalk it up to a 300lb weight difference and the fact dynos don't mean anything.

    they arent close in gearing at all. Chipped m3 can do around 40 in 1st well over 60 in 2nd and can hit 100mph in 3rd. So while your in the sti shifting into 5th(4th runs out around 100mph in sti) the m3 is still in 3rd. That m3 also weighs only 3200 as its had some weigh reduction with lighter exhaust battery etc.


    edit: just talked to my friend with m3, he says stock they run out 3rd at about 100 and with a chip which means higher redline around 106.
    Last edited by AwdTurboWrx; 05-23-2005 at 12:48 AM.
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  7. #21
    Boba Fett BrianH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AwdTurboWrx
    they arent close in gearing at all. Chipped m3 can do around 40 in 1st well over 60 in 2nd and can hit 100mph in 3rd. So while your in the sti shifting into 5th(4th runs out around 100mph in sti) the m3 is still in 3rd. That m3 also weighs only 3200 as its had some weigh reduction with lighter exhaust battery etc.


    edit: just talked to my friend with m3, he says stock they run out 3rd at about 100 and with a chip which means higher redline around 106.

    Well sti's run up to 37 in first and around 56 in second.

    Gear ratios FYI:

    STI:
    1 3.636
    2 2.375
    3 1.761
    4 1.346
    5 1.062
    6 0.842
    Final Drive: 3.900

    M3:


    1st 4.23:1
    2nd 2.53:1
    3rd 1.67:1
    4th 1.23:1
    5th 1.00:1
    6th 0.83:1

    Not sure what the FD of the m3 is but as you can see the gear ratios aren't that far off.

  8. #22
    Banned sonicrx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrianH
    Doubt it's gearing M3 and sti are pretty damn close in gearing when comparing the 6mt's with the exception that the m3's got a taller first

    It's really hard to tell about the torque curve without knowing anything about the sti,plus with its short gearing starting at 60 it wouldn't matter very long. With stock shift points on the usdm 6mt you should be getting into the next gear right around 5500rpms which combined iwth the load at higher speeds would put you in your sweet spot on most larger turbos.

    I just chalk it up to a 300lb weight difference and the fact dynos don't mean anything.
    new m3's have a taller 2nd as well and can hit 80 + mph in second which is alot higher than the sti can hit in second. my buddy has 2 of them . they are sweet cars,and fast cars as well. no shame in losing to a modded m3

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    Props to the M3 owner. Nice ride dude!!

  10. #24
    Boba Fett BrianH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sonicrx
    new m3's have a taller 2nd as well and can hit 80 + mph in second which is alot higher than the sti can hit in second. my buddy has 2 of them . they are sweet cars,and fast cars as well. no shame in losing to a modded m3
    what's the FD for the m3?

  11. #25
    Registered User bigd's Avatar
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    i just read that whole thread, those guys are cool. its encouraging to see other enthusiasts giving props even though our brethren was defeated.

    M3's are such well balanced cars. They may be putting out nearly the same whp, but the comments posted on the M3 site are totally on spot. the edge was given to the M, a less lossy drivetrain, much smoother(and deeper) powerband, and WAY faster shifts. the STi driver looked like he was taking a sip of coffee between shifts in comparison...
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  12. #26
    Registered User AwdTurboWrx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigd
    i just read that whole thread, those guys are cool. its encouraging to see other enthusiasts giving props even though our brethren was defeated.

    M3's are such well balanced cars. They may be putting out nearly the same whp, but the comments posted on the M3 site are totally on spot. the edge was given to the M, a less lossy drivetrain, much smoother(and deeper) powerband, and WAY faster shifts. the STi driver looked like he was taking a sip of coffee between shifts in comparison...
    smg m3's are way too fast when it comes to shifting, makes them even harder to compete with on the highway, or anywhere else (off a roll atleast)
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  13. #27
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    I don't remember about M3's, but arent they rear wheel drive? I can see that as being perfectly feasible. Very nice cars.
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  14. #28
    Registered User bigd's Avatar
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    yes, RWD. one of the most famed "sports" cars of recent history. its a typical 2/4dr sedan from BMW's 3 series(ie: 325, 330, etc), but with a handful of upgrades that make it a blast to drive. (kinda like the impreza and the STi). they also have an M5 (from the 5 series, (528, 525,) which is larger, heavier, and more expensive, but has more grunt and power. M's are teh sexay.
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  15. #29
    Registered User BrandonWRX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DTR rex
    I doubt its the 39. 400whp on a 39 would be basically impossible.



    Its perfectly feasible. The M3 is making about 20whp more than the STi. Not to mention the M3 has superior gearing, a higher redline, and a flatter torque curve. What happened seems PERFECTLY legit.
    The ESX STi makes 425 hp on the stock vf39 turbo , well not quite 400whp but up there. He also could have inflated his numbers a little, liek if he had 380 hp and just said he had 400 as a nice round number.

    If it was a larger turbo such as a 20G or something, I wouldve thought it to pull harder up top since SC generally run out of breath as the rpms increase..*shrug*

    M3's are beautiful, and SC'd ones are even more beautiful yet
    Last edited by BrandonWRX; 05-24-2005 at 09:05 AM.
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    If there is one thing I've learned going from a ~330 AWHP car to a ~330 RWHP car, it's that AWD sucks on the highway! (unless you got that 600+ AWHP Evo... )



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