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This is a discussion on How is the 2015 WRX STI? is it worth getting within the Car Purchasing Forum forums, part of the ClubWRX.net Marketplace category; Originally Posted by itiswhatitisnt I love performance. However I'm waiting for the flares to be updated. No wide body appearance ...

  1. #16
    zax
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    Quote Originally Posted by itiswhatitisnt View Post
    I love performance. However I'm waiting for the flares to be updated. No wide body appearance shame on you design team. 2 more years to make it look like kim k.
    It's the same width as the previous generation.
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    Registered User Raven Logics's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by itiswhatitisnt View Post
    2 more years to make it look like kim k.
    You want your car to look like a dirty **** plastered in makeup? Each to their own I guess

    Quote Originally Posted by zax View Post
    It's the same width as the previous generation.
    Appearance and reality are different things. Even though it's the same width, it doesn't look to have the same wide body appearance to him.

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    Registered User itiswhatitisnt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raven Logics View Post
    You want your car to look like a dirty **** plastered in makeup? Each to their own I guess
    Bahaha Figure of speech

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    Quote Originally Posted by itiswhatitisnt View Post
    Bahaha Figure of speech
    Seriously though, have you seen it in person? Sure it doesn't have as obviously flared fenders as the '14, no doubt about that. In person however, when you just look at the front end it does look flared and rather sexy : )
    I will say though, I wish the back end had a little more junk in the trunk.

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    Registered User itiswhatitisnt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ByrdBones View Post
    Seriously though, have you seen it in person? Sure it doesn't have as obviously flared fenders as the '14, no doubt about that. In person however, when you just look at the front end it does look flared and rather sexy : )
    I will say though, I wish the back end had a little more junk in the trunk.
    Yes I have. I was at the LAAS last year for the debut.

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    Registered User zeitgeist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ByrdBones View Post
    Seriously though, have you seen it in person? Sure it doesn't have as obviously flared fenders as the '14, no doubt about that. In person however, when you just look at the front end it does look flared and rather sexy : )
    I will say though, I wish the back end had a little more junk in the trunk.
    I agree wholeheartedly. I * love * the front end on this car but found my disappointment growing as I shifted my gaze down the length of it.

    Now, this is where everyone gets all weepy, saying that looks are not everything and they are right. The '15 ticks a hell of a lot of other boxes. But, man .. that shape. I still wonder if they're going to pull another mid-model refresh. For those who like the style now, I said "rock on".

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    Registered User zeitgeist's Avatar
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    stupid double post
    Last edited by zeitgeist; 03-17-2014 at 05:21 PM. Reason: double post

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    Gimme the DCCD diff controlls, the brembos, and the 2.5 all day long. Brembos are cheaper to replace through a factory-installed parts counter and the 2.5 has endless parts out there.

    Pick my STi up on the 11th and I'll never look back. World Rally Blue.

    I suppose if you never intend to upgrade anything or you can't afford the STi then get the WRX. If you can't decide to keep your current or trade it on a '15 I love the 15. Feels like an older model with performance parts(which I like) and a little more refinement.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dubaru View Post
    I suppose if you never intend to upgrade anything or you can't afford the STi then get the WRX.
    I completely 100% wholeheartedly disagree.

    I both can afford the STi and do plan on upgrading the car eventually.

    Frankly, the 2015 WRX will become a better modification platform in a few years. Especially once Subaru discontinues the EJ motor entirely.
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    Registered User poi88's Avatar
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    Personally I am just going to get one of each

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    Quote Originally Posted by zax View Post
    I completely 100% wholeheartedly disagree.

    I both can afford the STi and do plan on upgrading the car eventually.

    Frankly, the 2015 WRX will become a better modification platform in a few years. Especially once Subaru discontinues the EJ motor entirely.

    That's absurd. "A better platform for modification"?? The only thing better is some of the technology in the engine. How can you justify that? Just to get its 268 HP, the 2.0 needs all sorts of new technology and more boost than the 2.5, so it starts behind the 8-ball. Match the boost and the 2.0 is even farther behind. The dynamics of the 2.0(rod/stroke ratio and general construction of the internals) do not lend themselves to being able to handle any more boost or horsepower than the 2.5 so it will require modification just to catch up to the horsepower/torque output.

    Discontinuing an engine would actually make it MORE viable for modification, if you take practically ANY vehicle out there, the aftermarket comes more alive than ever once the powertrain is discontinued. Look at Honda B-series, ANY old V8, or the Jeep crowds. That's how it works, if the factory parts(which nobody keeps if they're modifying) aren't available, someone else puts one out and its usually better for cheaper. The fact that the engine has been relatively unchanged means the aftermarket had tons of time to fine-tune their products which have also come down in price.

    The engine isn't the only thing that's better in the STi, there's the AWD system, torque distribution options, gearbox, steering, front suspension(not just springs), brakes(ever priced an aftermarket Brembo kit?), lights, and interior amenities.

    "Better platform for modifications"?

    Is that because there's less parts, they cost more, or you need to buy more of them?
    Last edited by Dubaru; 04-03-2014 at 06:20 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dubaru View Post
    That's absurd. "A better platform for modification"?? The only thing better is some of the technology in the engine. How can you justify that? Just to get its 268 HP, the 2.0 needs all sorts of new technology and more boost than the 2.5, so it starts behind the 8-ball. Match the boost and the 2.0 is even farther behind. The dynamics of the 2.0(rod/stroke ratio and general construction of the internals) do not lend themselves to being able to handle any more boost or horsepower than the 2.5 so it will require modification just to catch up to the horsepower/torque output.
    Just so you know... perhaps among your friends you sound informed, but some of us on these forums have studied these motors in great detail, so allow me to pick apart your argument line-by-line:

    Quote Originally Posted by Dubaru View Post
    The only thing better is some of the technology in the engine. How can you justify that? Just to get its 268 HP, the 2.0 needs all sorts of new technology and more boost than the 2.5
    This is precisely our point. Firstly, the new motor DOES have all the modern technology allowing for enhancement in output. Improved cam phasing, enhanced heads with better valve springs, a stouter block (FA20 steel sleeves are about 30% thicker than EJ257 sleeves), improved quench volume, asymmetric rods for improved cylinder sideloading, smaller cylinder skirts for reduced friction, timing chain for durability, twin-scroll turbo, ELH from the factory, reduced distance from exhaust port to turbo, square bore:stroke for improved spool and response, increased CR for improved off-boost response and torque, and of course DIRECT INJECTION! And the list goes on and on! I don't think many will argue that the EJ257 is a better motor, and those that do are typically extremely uninformed. Allow me to further my point. Phil at Element Tuning (Element Tuning -- The Building Blocks of Subaru Performance) personally explained to me that the FA20 was "Subaru's greatest achievement with regards to a motor yet," as he was able to extract a little north of 400whp on a stock bottom-end BRZ with a Garrett turbo. That is a tall claim considering the EJ207 was light-years ahead of the EJ257. To claim the FA20 superior to the EJ207 is a very bold statement. Not to mention the BRZ's FA20 has a CR of over 13:1! Head on over to this thread: 2015 WRX & 2015 STi preliminary results - NASIOC where you will notice that a few major names in the tuning industry are extremely excited over the FA20's potential. But none of this matters, because time will tell. I'm not saying the EJ257 is a BAD motor, per se, only that the FA20 is much improved over the archaic EJ construction.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dubaru View Post
    (rod/stroke ratio and general construction of the internals)
    It sounds like you come from a Naturally Aspirated background. That's fine. The game is a bit different with forced induction. The most capable designs in the world are square motors in the FI domain. Example: 4G63 slightly undersquare and the F20C is square. Yes, motors built to rev north of 12k RPM will need a much larger bore and shorter stroke to reduce piston velocity to under 30m/s (typical maximum of materials). With turbocharging, the increased stroke actually improves the transient response and spool of the turbo, increases cylinder scavenging, and improves mechanical advantage. The square bore:stroke was not achievable on older EJ motor designs due to the packaging of the motor. With the asymmetric rods among other enhancements, this is now possible and maintains reasonable cylinder sideloading. The rod:stroke ratio HAS decreased, but remember that the asymmetric rods change the game. As far as the internals are concerned, you are merely talking out of your ass. No one knows the capability of the internals yet, but given Direct Injection's superior det resistance, the reduced piston cross-section, I can promise the internals will have a higher power ceiling.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dubaru View Post
    Discontinuing an engine would actually make it MORE viable for modification, if you take practically ANY vehicle out there, the aftermarket comes more alive than ever once the powertrain is discontinued. Look at Honda B-series, ANY old V8, or the Jeep crowds. That's how it works, if the factory parts(which nobody keeps if they're modifying) aren't available, someone else puts one out and its usually better for cheaper. The fact that the engine has been relatively unchanged means the aftermarket had tons of time to fine-tune their products which have also come down in price.
    The main point here is that EJ motors have become DIRT CHEAP to acquire. FA20s are still expensive. Give this a few years, and we will see reversal. Eventually EJ parts will become more difficult to acquire new, as manufacturers will begin to focus on the new platform.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dubaru View Post
    The engine isn't the only thing that's better in the STi, there's the AWD system, torque distribution options, gearbox, steering, front suspension(not just springs), brakes(ever priced an aftermarket Brembo kit?), lights, and interior amenities.
    The capability of the gearbox remains to be seen, I cannot comment as of yet. Brembo brakes, great. Head over to my mod thread, I have a set of brakes on my bug that are better than Brembos. Dealwithit. Lights? I'm ordering a Limited: same headlights. Steering: I'd prefer the more-modern electric assist. AWD system: here is the true differentiator. The STi AWD system is clearly better. Hands down. Deeper than that, the WRX AWD is simply archaic. However (and this is where I see the potential), parts like this exist Cusco RS Rear LSD 1.5 Way (R160) Subaru WRX 2002-2014 LSD 183 L15 at RallySportDirect.com that blow the doors off the stock STi Torsen rear diff. Eventually, front differentials will exist as well. Where you see a stagnant system, I see room for improvement.

    The 2015 WRX STi is exactly what it should be: focused on the resolving deficiencies of the previous model. Now it's razor-sharp. However, the motor was an oversight. Had the 2015 STi received the FA20, I would sing a different tune, but it doesn't. And I'm not singing.
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    Also I vote that this discussion be copied in the Official thread. Tons of good info here.

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    Talking out of my ass? How bout take my words and shove em straight up yours. Look up the dimensions and weights of the components. What the physics of the components DO lend themselves to is a higher RPM ceiling(and horsepower usually drops off later in the RPM range), statistically speaking. Any stock component "horsepower ceiling" could be argued and defied in a case by case basis until the cows come home. SO come down off your high horse. High static compression actually lends itself to a lower peak boost potential. Someone tuning a 1-off can run crazy horsepower...for a while. In order to reach equivalent horsepower numbers, a smaller engine needs more boost and/or higher compression so it needs more modification to reach what the 2.5 puts out. I'm not talking stock, I'm talking WITH modifications, the 2.0 will need money invested in it to exceed what the 2.5 does, no matter how much more efficient it is, it will always put out less than a 2.5 with the same boost and modifications. You're saying that the 2.0 requires both higher compression and more boost just to hit 268 horse? That's not actually a great claim. You become limited with boost when your static compression is higher due to detonation, but despite the improved detonation concerns with the 2.0(which can be addressed in the 2.5 as well, for low cost) that engine isn't going to handle as much boost as it needs to surpass the 2.5 with equal modifications. Anyone can change pistons, rods, etc...What are you even modifying if you're citing all those stock components as reasons the 2.0 is better??

    There's nothing about the design of that engine or its components that would indicate it would get more power in a parallel comparison. All I said was your 2.0 does not lend itself to producing MORE power. Sure, if it was lightly modified it could produce more power but then so would the 2.5 with mods, on and on in a "chicken and the egg" cycle. If you never intend to swap pistons, rods, never sleeve your cylinders, never change your turbo, never do headwork...but still intend to modify your WRX...then sure, the 2.0 seems like a great buy. If you're in "the game" to do most of that anyway as a hobby...the 2.5 has more available.
    If you really believe it will be HARDER to find aftermarket parts when the engines go extinct you're on glue guy. There's dozens of examples where aftermarket parts companies become MORE invested in older technology because of enthusiasts(out of necessity), which makes it MORE possible to modify. There's actually MORE aftermarket parts out for some extinct engines(Supra 2jz, Honda B-Series, Nissan SR20, 454 Chev, 305 chev, 426 Hemi, I could go on...) out of necessity than there were when they were in production. ONLY stock parts will be any harder to find, people don't stop producing parts for an engine that's been around for a decade that's just foolish thinking. Maybe be more subjective?

    The whole of the STi will still be better than the sum of a WRX with modifications(depending on what they are or how far you go), so the "better platform" isn't cut and dried when your budget affords both. If you're not worried about cost, the STi can have the 2.0 swapped in. Platform is the car not just an engine. The WRX needs modifications to be compared apples to apples with the STi so the best "platform" is the best starting package which is the STi.

    ...I should also bring up the fact that if you can afford to modify it right away, someone like me gets the STi so they can get crackin in time for summer.
    Last edited by Dubaru; 04-03-2014 at 08:40 PM.

  16. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dubaru View Post
    You become limited with boost when your static compression is higher due to detonation, but despite the improved detonation concerns with the 2.0(which can be addressed in the 2.5 as well, for low cost) that engine isn't going to handle as much boost as it needs to surpass the 2.5 with equal modifications. Anyone can change pistons, rods, etc...What are you even modifying if you're citing all those stock components as reasons the 2.0 is better??.
    Struck a nerve eh? Are you basing this all off the fact that the 2.5L has an extra 0.5L?

    If you are prepared to sleeve the block, change the internals, well why can't the $10k extra go into the 2.0L to prepare the car for increased turbo duty as well? I'm comparing stock longblock to stock longblock. I can promise you the FA20 has a higher power ceiling. Do you understand the limits of the EJ motor?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dubaru View Post
    that engine isn't going to handle as much boost as it needs to surpass the 2.5 with equal modifications
    How could you possibly make claim to this?! This is a very bold claim with no supporting data. At least I have referenced some very reputable tuners.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dubaru View Post
    no matter how much more efficient it is, it will always put out less than a 2.5 with the same boost and modifications.
    Methinks that you do not understand the volumetric efficiency argument. Are you ABSOLUTELY convinced that the EJ257 heads flow more than the FA20 heads?


    When the FA20s start making power, I'll sit back and enjoy the spoils of war.
    2015 CWP WRX STi ... But how did I get roped back into an EJ motor?!
    Zax's utterly unimaginably stock 2015 STi build thread
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