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This is a discussion on Tanker's TurboSnail: I choose you! within the Builds forums, part of the Tech & Modifying & General Repairs category; Haha. That's great. I really like the '11+ wheels in black. I painted mine with plasti dip a couple weeks ...

  1. #91
    Registered User wrx650's Avatar
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    Haha. That's great. I really like the '11+ wheels in black. I painted mine with plasti dip a couple weeks ago.


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    2009 Spark Silver Metallic Sedan - Stage 2+

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  3. #92
    Registered User clt-wrx's Avatar
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    pink wheels would look good with pink side markers! but really the new ones look good especially with the mud flaps. im going to have to look into rally armor now...

  4. #93
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    A little update and some of my thoughts:

    I had a small photo shoot this weekend in my driveway with a friend who has the sedan, and these are some of the pictures. I think they came out rather nice.












    We also went for a ride in each others cars (and even took my 2-1/2 year old son along). We didn't really go that fast (even though the little guy wanted to), but we boosted up to 60 mph a few times in different gears. I'm actually pretty surprised on how differently the 2 cars make power. If I had to summarize, mine is a bit more 'punchy' and rev-happy, but it falls off more between shifts and as it gets to redline. Wrx50s sedan seems to start off slower, but continues to build power all the way to redline, and the boost drop off at shifting isn't as pronounced. We can only summarize that this has to do with the TMIC & ELH vs the FMIC & UELH.

    So, which one is faster - mine feels faster at lower speeds, Gregs feels faster as you get into the rpms. The real question is, which one did my son like to ride in more: Well, after riding in both, and after he woke up from his nap, he went out to my car, opened his door, and tried to drag his car seat out of my car and put it in Greg's... he wanted to ride in 'that one'... the little traitor. My neighbor (who is a Chevrolet car guy) also thinks Gregs sounds better.

    They also ride and sound like 2 completely different cars - radically so. After riding in both, and installing a car seat in the sedan and looking at the trunk space (i.e. seeing if it is 'liveable'), if I had to buy a car again I think I would have gotten a burple sedan. That being said, I do love how my car and how it performs.

    I have a video of the sound of the two cars, but I'm stuggling on how to post it. Here are youtube videos, with some commentary by Greg:
    IMG0318 part 1 - YouTube

    IMG0318 part 2 - YouTube
    Last edited by TankerTruck; 05-06-2013 at 05:18 AM.
    2013 DGM WRX - Perrin CAI | PW TMIC | Forge BPV | Cobb DP | GS EBCS | DW 65C Pump | Perrin ELH & Uppipe | NGK One-Step Colder | Bren ProTune
    Best Time (on 4.21.13): 12.26 sec @ 113 mph

  5. #94
    and the Funky Bunch Calvinball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TankerTruck View Post
    They also ride and sound like 2 completely different cars - radically so. After riding in both, and installing a car seat in the sedan and looking at the trunk space (i.e. seeing if it is 'liveable'), if I had to buy a car again I think I would have gotten a burple sedan. That being said, I do love how my car and how it performs.
    Does he have suspension mods? The power delivery is definitely due to the different modifications, if he has suspension mods then that explains the ride. The sound, well, part of that is the exhaust but yeah, a hatch is going to sound different from a sedan in the cabin even if both are stock.
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  6. #95
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    I'll let him chime in if he's on, but I don't think he's done anything to the suspension. I honestly think it's a wheelbase or geometry thing, or something. He has upgraded his brakes to some version of subaru STIs I think (they are sick and stop you SO much faster).

    His build thread is here:
    wrx50's 2011 wrx sedan build

    The sound is definitely from the hatch/sedan. The only thing that annoys me is he gets decent looking tips on his exhaust, stock, while I have ... well, the hatch exhaust. The grass is always greener though, right?

    And my personal favorite, entitled "Hey ladies, how youuuuu doing?"
    Last edited by TankerTruck; 05-06-2013 at 05:45 AM.
    2013 DGM WRX - Perrin CAI | PW TMIC | Forge BPV | Cobb DP | GS EBCS | DW 65C Pump | Perrin ELH & Uppipe | NGK One-Step Colder | Bren ProTune
    Best Time (on 4.21.13): 12.26 sec @ 113 mph

  7. #96
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    Interesting comparison. I could see his seeming faster in the long run chalking up to the FMIC. He's gonna have a little lag before the boost hits, so that explains why yours feels more punchy in the lower range: yours spools much quicker.

    It is known that the Sedan and hatch will sound different just due to different muffler design as well as how the exhaust sound resonates in the cabin (different cabin volumes). But wheelbase and geometry? Those are the same. Though there has always been the longstanding debate whether or not the sedan chassis is more rigid, or if the hatch is more rigid due to the way they are braced and built.
    The Hawk-Eye Alliance #90|The Blobeye Syndicate #0|The Stink-Eye Mob #0|N.E.R.D. Founding Member & #3
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  8. #97
    Registered User wrx50's Avatar
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    I am just seeing this now. Jesse to answer your question, no suspension mods at all. I have not gotten around to that.

    I agree with you. Yours is more punchy and does seem to rev faster and spool quicker. Mine seemed to have a smoother power delivery but I still think that yours is faster. I'm sure this is due to the headers because we have the same mods for the most part with exception of the intercooler. Also we have the same tune again, for the most part. Same tuner anyway.

    I kind of miss the punchy power delivery that yours has.

  9. #98
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    Note to anyone who plans on installing headers:

    Don't be a lazy ass and not change out your uppipe when you do the headers. There isn't much power to be had, but it does remove the ANNOYING uppipe heat shield vibration that you get once the different heat shields are removed.

    I'm now debating getting a new up or just ripping off the heat shield. Serves me right for being lazy.
    2013 DGM WRX - Perrin CAI | PW TMIC | Forge BPV | Cobb DP | GS EBCS | DW 65C Pump | Perrin ELH & Uppipe | NGK One-Step Colder | Bren ProTune
    Best Time (on 4.21.13): 12.26 sec @ 113 mph

  10. #99
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    OK, so after my annoyance with the rattling of the heat shield on the uppipe grew to unbearable levels, I installed the perrin uppipe. I heat wrapped this one, but I'm not 100% sure that it actually does anything.

    Of note, my perrin turbo blanket completely fell apart when I removed it. The portion against the turbo turned to dust and the fiberglass interior just fell out. I'm going to email perrin to see if this is normal, but that kind of pissed me off. I'll probably just buy a PTP blanket instead next time.

    Overall, the install took me 5 hours to do alone, but 1 hour of that was messing around with taking off the downpipe, and reinstalling it, completely. I couldn't get it lined up at all. With 2 people you could do this on my car in about 2 hours +/-, I could do it again alone in about 4 hours.

    Now, everyone and their brother has been asking me if the car spools up faster, and the honest answer is "I don't know because I don't remember what it was like before". So I took a video of the car going from 5% throttle at 2000 rpms in 3rd gear to WOT, up to a little over 60 mph. The weather was 70 degrees and cloudy.

    Spool check after perrin elh & up pipe install - YouTube

    I figure this is the worst case scenario for boost, and you can see how it builds boost and where it falls off. The gauge reads about 2 psi short, and my log said I pulled 19.5 psi on that run, max. Butt dyno says I gained midrange (4-5k) but lost top-end (6-7k).
    2013 DGM WRX - Perrin CAI | PW TMIC | Forge BPV | Cobb DP | GS EBCS | DW 65C Pump | Perrin ELH & Uppipe | NGK One-Step Colder | Bren ProTune
    Best Time (on 4.21.13): 12.26 sec @ 113 mph

  11. #100
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    So this weekend, I installed the NGK One-Step Colder Plugs, and scheduled my dyno tune.

    The plugs weren't really that bad. They took me about 1.5 hours, (passenger was about 30 minutes, drivers side was about an hour because of the limited area on the back plug).

    On an interesting note, when I installed the uppipe & headers, I was getting a faint rattling sound around 2,500 rpms. I rechecked all my torques and bolts, and everything was right. It was just annoying to me. I got the E-Tune finalized, and this weekend I spent a few times beating on it, to make sure everything was working correctly, and I think after a few heat cycles things must have slightly bent-in the headers/uppipe connection, because there isn't much of a rattle anymore. I find this very strange, but something to keep in mind if you do this.

    About the dyno tune, I spoke with a few different tuners, I ended up scheduling with Bren Tuning in Auburn, MA. I have heard quite a few really good stories about Bren, but one really bad one from someone I know pretty well, so I'm a little nervous. I know his dyno reads high, so I'm not really after numbers, but more after a nice giant, fat torque curve.

    Update (hopefully with video) to follow.
    2013 DGM WRX - Perrin CAI | PW TMIC | Forge BPV | Cobb DP | GS EBCS | DW 65C Pump | Perrin ELH & Uppipe | NGK One-Step Colder | Bren ProTune
    Best Time (on 4.21.13): 12.26 sec @ 113 mph

  12. #101
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    OK guys, on Friday June 7th I got a dyno tune from Bren Tuning. Being a moron, I didn't get a video or pictures, but we all know what a dyno looks like. Bren uses a dynapack 42 set up. The tune was done at PSI performance in Auburn, MA and the weather was 65* and a torrential downpour from the tropical storm that was moving through.

    I did a lot of research into chosing my tuner before going through with the tune, and Bren was very highly regarded in my area (he's only 15 minutes away), and was very professional in answering my questions, and an issue I knew he had with a former client (who is a friend of mine).

    I got there right at 10, and Bren was already waiting for me. We talked as the guys got the car set up on the dyno. I watched them out of the corner of my eye, because the dynapack removes the wheels (i.e. lugs and the potential for scarring my wheels in the process), but the guys were very careful and went about their work without any fuss.

    Bren asked me a few questions in general about what kind of tune I wanted, and what tune was in the car. I had a revised TP tune in there, and the car, in general, was running very well but had a little bit of Knock Learning around 4k (I think -1.4 on the last log). I wasn't sure why this was, but I think we came up with the reason by the end of the tune.

    Bren did quite a few pulls. The car kept fighting him on timing, and what it liked vs what Bren expected. In general, my car was, like all of my toys, a royal pain in the butt. After about 45 minutes of pretty intense tuning, Bren noted that my perrin CAI was not performing as well as he expected on the dyno (i.e. intake temps kept creeping up) - even after they had adjusted the fans to push more air over it. It didn't do this on the road (we checked and rechecked - and then checked again), but for some reason on the dyno it wasn't working like it should. This was the only real issue of the day. After Bren finished his tune on the dyno, this is what he ended up with:



    We didn't do a 'glory pull', or anything of the sort because that's not really what I want out of this tune. I wanted a very smooth, daily-driveable tune that would have a lot of safety built in, but would be fun to drive.

    You can see the AFR in light pink, boost in dark pink, Torque in light blue, and HP in darker blue. I also had him compare his tune vs the revised TP tune (the TP tune is shown dashed), because I was interested to see if a protune was actually worth the money.

    You can see that Eric's tune actually spools up a bit quicker than Brens, but fluctuates a bit more. This makes sense to me because Brens tune seems to give a more linear response to the boost in relationship to the throttle versus Eric's more intense boost application. Eric's tune actually feels faster because the turbo hits harder (ye-HA! - think back to the pokemon idea of I choose YOU!!!! and you get what I mean), but I think Bren's is more driveable (ohhhhhhhhhHHHHHH!) - if that makes sense.

    The torque and horsepower are pretty much what I expected to happen. By having a tuner right with you and the car, they can squeeze more power out of the car. Every tuner is a bit different in how they go about things, and Bren explained what he was doing, why he was doing it, and what he expected. After about 1/2 way through, I just backed away and let Bren do his thing - and just listened to my car scream on run after run.

    The AFR was a bit of a shock to me - and I'm glad that I had the tune done just for this reason alone . I have a Cobb DP and innovate AFR in the O2 bung for the DP at the stock location. The gauge held pretty steady at 11.0 for all of Eric's tune, but you can see on the dyno the gauge wasn't reading as accurately as it should have been. There are a few lean spots in Eric's tune (nothing above 11.8), that he had absolutely no way of knowing about because the gauge he was basing his tune off was reading the way it was. Brens tune, using the gauge and rear sniffer-thing, was able to smooth that out, and limited the initial rich valley that we all get when we go WOT.

    After he was happy with his tune, we took a 15-minute road tune, where I gave my opinion on the tune, and I asked for a few things to be different (throttle response and something else minor). He continually make minor tweeks the entire time we were driving so that he was happy. It was still pouring, so I couldn't really get on it, but I did run out 3rd gear and was impressed with the difference in spool-up. Interesting note, the car, and the EBCS, sounded different for some reason. Shrug.

    So, at the end of the day, was the pro-tune from Bren worth it versus the E-Tune from Eric? For my car, yes. For every car, I'm not so sure. There is no doubt that Bren definitely made my car more driveable (for me), safer, more fun (for me), and faster overall - I'm glad I did it and I would have done it again. However, I think for a car at stage 1, I'd probably stick with a TP E-tune and be happy. At stage 2/TP stage 3, I think it gets a little trickier. If I had a stage 2 build I'd get a pro-tune from Bren, but not everyone wants what I want, the investment in pro-tune might not be worth it to other people. Eric had my car just flying at his Stage 3 tune. For anything above a TP Stage 3, I think a pro-tune really becomes necessary as I don't think an E-tuner can really fine-tune the tune enough not being with the car.

    Please don't think I'm bad-mouthing Eric or TP at all. This is not the case. Basically, I have been incredibly impressed with both Eric at Torqued Performance, and with Bren at Bren Tuning. Eric's E-tunes were within 10% of a pro-tune, that's AWESOME for not being with the car - I 100% recommend Eric. And Bren's tune really made the car that much better. I 100% recommend Bren.
    2013 DGM WRX - Perrin CAI | PW TMIC | Forge BPV | Cobb DP | GS EBCS | DW 65C Pump | Perrin ELH & Uppipe | NGK One-Step Colder | Bren ProTune
    Best Time (on 4.21.13): 12.26 sec @ 113 mph

  13. #102
    Registered User wreckingball man's Avatar
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    Good info and review. I like it. Looks you're getting a lot of good mid-range power. Street racing vid?

  14. #103
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    Don't hate...

    I got a cheap amazon exhaust:

    2013 wrx exhaust - YouTube

    Once I can get the tips aligned, I'm all in on it. I owned a magnaflow before, and this is almost exactly like it in design, but it is way quieter. I think it's louder than the SPT, but quieter than the cobb for the hatchback. I like it, and for the price, the aggravation wasn't all that bad. It's 304 SS, decent welds, not bad for the price. There isn't any drone on the highway, and it's the loudest at 2500 and 4000+. at 3k you can't even hear it.

    I wasn't taking it easy on the revs, and I bounced off my 5k launch control a few times. It's shockingly good for the price. I'll leave it at that. I'm sure the ELH help calm the sound down a bit.

    EDIT: I sold it when my daughter asked me to "turn my car down when I left for work"... back to the stock exhaust.
    Last edited by TankerTruck; 07-26-2013 at 05:49 AM.
    2013 DGM WRX - Perrin CAI | PW TMIC | Forge BPV | Cobb DP | GS EBCS | DW 65C Pump | Perrin ELH & Uppipe | NGK One-Step Colder | Bren ProTune
    Best Time (on 4.21.13): 12.26 sec @ 113 mph

  15. #104
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    Thank you Tanker. This has been a fun read and really given some food for thought.

  16. #105
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    OK. In honor of my cars 1 year birthday, i got a used SPT exhaust for her... him... it?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lE1J8jII3vw

    I think it's a her... she seems to take all my money, and seems moody quite a bit, so that would make sense.

    Anyway, i like it for a DD exhaust quite a lot. Below 2,500 rpms it's hardly noticeable and you can leave your radio on 20-25 and hear it quite well - if you're rocking out at 30 on the radio and cruising on the highway at 3000 rpms you won't even hear the exhaust. Above 4500 rpms it's rally car loud, which I like honestly. There is a lack of rumble with the ELHs, but it sounds more 'exotic' than 'honda', if that makes sense.

    I can do other videos if requested, but overall it is a good (if overpriced) exhaust.
    Last edited by TankerTruck; 09-06-2013 at 03:26 PM.
    2013 DGM WRX - Perrin CAI | PW TMIC | Forge BPV | Cobb DP | GS EBCS | DW 65C Pump | Perrin ELH & Uppipe | NGK One-Step Colder | Bren ProTune
    Best Time (on 4.21.13): 12.26 sec @ 113 mph

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