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>>Tranny Fluid Info and Experimenting Thread<< (Amsoil, Redline, USC, etc.)

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#1 · (Edited by Moderator)
>>Tranny Fluid Info and Experimenting Thread<< (Amsoil, Redline, USC, etc.)

UPDATE:

To start off, a link to " MEMBER TESTIMONIALS (on page 2 of this thread)" where there are tons of testimonials and lots to read.

What I ended up running and install pics. >>>>HERE on page 4<<<<


MY Blackstone analysis of my USC fluid that I replaced. >>>HERE<<<

Also started a "What fluid was your car running when it blew?" thread.

One more link to the Uncle Scotty's Cocktail Thread on Nasioc.

With that said where I started at 1-30-08:

So it is once again tranny fluid time in my car, or getting close anyways. Last time I used a synthetic version of USC or "Uncle Scottys Cocktail" I came up with. It works great, but in my quest to not leave well enough alone and brand homogeneity, I wanna try an all Amsoil formulation. Specifically, replace the Frankenstein colored Redline Lightweight shockproof with something, but we'll see where the research and findings take me.

What I am currently running:
I mixed up a batch of "Uncle Scottys Cocktail" but a full synthetic version in my 06 TR at 15k miles.

1 qt Redline lightweight shockproof
1 qt Amsoil syncromesh
2 qt Amsoil 75w90 gear oil.
What I am thinking about going with:

4 0z Amsoil slip lock
1
qt Amsoil MTG
1 qt Amsoil syncromesh
1.5 qt Amsoil 75w90 gear oil.

The bold is what I am thinking about to replace the Lightweight shockproof. They have a lower kinematic viscosity at 40 deg which should lead to improved shift at cold temps. Using all Amsoil products also guarantees (through Amsoil) that I can up the service interval considerably.



Discuss.

Here are the results:

Now at page 24 we have come to some conclusions:

* We've decided Uncle Scotty's cocktail shifts nice for a while but breaks down really fast and needs really short change intervals.
--Also don't think syncromesh needs to be in the blend
--There is also concern it may cause extra wear

* Redline Lightweight Shockproof works well in the 5MT but not the STI trans (slinger lubrication versus pump)
--Seems to work just as well straight as mixed

* Straight Severe Gear 75w90 from Amsoil is not good in cold weather, but works well when mixed with shockproof

* SD_GR still loves his Valvoline conventional 75w90

* Subaru Extra S is the greatest gear oil to put in a stock Subaru
--It works well for a long time, shifts great, but is not sold in the quart. Its sold in the 5 gal drum, but many Subi tuners and dealer have it

FWIW Redline 75w90NS is what you'd run in the 5MT, but in non-mixed form it hasn't netted near the result of the Extra-S. Don't use MT90.
 
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#44 · (Edited)
Agreed, although the affidavits at the end kinda hammer it home ;). I think I have decided on a formulation.

2 qts of Redline Lightweight Shockproof
1.5 qts of Amsoil SVG 75w90.

1qt Redline lightweight shockproof in rear diff.

Initially I set out to replace the shockproof, but can not turn a blind eye to the overwhelming positive member reviews. I do not like the characteristics of the Syncromesh and doubt its necessity in the USC. I will send a sample of the old USC away to Blackstone for analysis and post the fluid change details here with pics and impressions.
 
#46 · (Edited by Moderator)
ok what is the shopping list for tranny and diff?

there is an amsoil place on my way to school :) i can get it.

Dude the change in my tranny is going to be sick if the fluids really are 30-77k miles old

what did you pay for the redline and amsoil combined?
 
#47 · (Edited)
ok what is the shopping list for tranny and diff?
This is what I went out and bought an hour ago:

Tranny:

2 qts of Redline Lightweight Shockproof $10 x 2
2 qts of Amsoil SVG 75w90. $12 x 2

Diff:

1qt Redline lightweight shockproof. $10 x 1

total was about $54 + tax

You can substitute the Amsoil with Redline, but based on the user testimonials of redline gear oil and the data from the .pdf above, I not going to.
 
#49 · (Edited)
Initial Impressions

I could tell the USC needed to be changed, it was singing me a symphony on deceleration. Shifting was still fine and I had no problems on the 2-1 shift over 15 mph.

Well the new mixture of:
2 qts redline LW Shockproof
1.5 qts of Amsoil Severe Gear 75w90

did as expected and quieted the tranny down quite a bit. Shifting was the same, maybe slightly better. I'll update this post a few times after I have some mileage on it.

100 miles:

After 100 miles it acts the same way as the USC did when I first put it in. Nice smooth shift engagement, almost doesn't feel like a subi tranny. Less noise than USC with 20k miles on it, but probably the same as a fresh batch of USC put in.




3000 miles:

Awesome is a great word to describe it. Best my car has ever shifted.

10000 miles:


One last pic that wouldn't fit above.
 
#91 ·
3000 miles:

Awesome is a great word to describe it. Best my car has ever shifted.
Since you're in NorCal, what's the coldest you've had the tranny down to?

I'm having trouble finding a mixture that both shifts well and doesn't require me to go get a cheaterbar to make my first 5 shifts in the morning at 0F.

Do you have any cold weather experience with it at all?
 
#50 ·
Figured I would chime in here... I can't remember where I read it, but on some pretty big subbie site I read that they were running mt-90 redline strait w/ good success in the 5mt, I have had mt-90 redline in my car since about 40k, i have 80k now on the same fluid and it has gave me no reason to change it, I have been through about 7 auto-x's w/ it and up to deal's gap for a grueling couple of days, I also somehow ended up w/ the reg 75-90 redline rather than the NS for the rear diff, and have had to problems either
 
#52 ·
That's really interesting. You're using basically the stock maintenance intervals and are very pleased. That's great! One reservation I have had with cocktails in the past is the stated need to replace the fluids more frequently than when using regular gear oil. You seem to have had no problems at all, which is very encouraging.
 
#53 ·
I think the syncromesh is what decreases the interval of the USC. Its different oil base doesn't seem to play nice with the others.

Interesting to note:

from Redline LW shock proof page

• Compatible with petroleums and synthetics
Amsoil:

AMSOIL SEVERE GEAR® is compatible with conventional and synthetic gear oils. Mixing AMSOIL gear oils with other oils, however, will shorten the oil life expectancy and reduce the performance benefits. AMSOIL does not support extended drain intervals where oils have been mixed.
Well I guess there is the smoking gun.


* ADDED PICS ABOVE.
 
#59 · (Edited)
What fluid were you running when your transmission blew?

I started a thread to see what fluid people were running when their transmissions blew. I searched to find out who had blown fluid and at what mileage and mods. Took a lot of info from this thread and made some assumptions. Most people had low mileage and said their car was 100% stock. Knowing that the factory maintenance interval for tranny fluid is at 30k miles, its safe to say that anyone under that is running on stock fluid.

So far it looks like Dino oil takes it.

The "What tranny fluid were you running when it blew?" thread


Also posted a similar thread on Nasioc to help draw on their larger member base for this thread *crosses fingers*
 
#60 · (Edited)
I swapped from dino oil to the original USC formula about a 1,000 miles ago and have been pleased with the performance (I did the swap at about 10K).

I have an '07 WRX and didn't have any issues before the swap. The USC is nice though and is getting "smoother" as time goes by.

I did a lot of reading and forum searches and the thoughts that influenced me were:

1) I found enough reasonable concern over using synthetics in the tranny, that I decided to stay with the original USC formula.

2) The corrosive arguement of the USC is worrysome, but I personally am not swayed because I haven't seen a lot of failures posted by members using the cocktail. And the Pennzoil Syncromesh states that it's friendly to brass in manual trannys. But it's something to keep an eye on in the forums.

3) Mobil 1 gear oil seems to be a universal fav in the rear diff, so I went with that as well.

4) Changing the tranny and rear diff once a year (or so) isn't a big expense or very time-consuming (if you do it yourself). So if the cocktail needs replacing at shorter intervals, it's no big thing to me personally. In fact, shorter intervals could only help in maintaining good clean fluid. Plus, don't we all like working on our cars :)

If I do decide that the USC should go, I probably would look at going with the Subaru 5 gallon stuff.

Awesome thread (thanks 06wrx4me!)
 
#61 ·
I decided to do the full shock proof change instead of RP's synchromax just b/c I would have mixed with the RP that i have now (maxgear?) and I was dissuaded from keeping the RP in there from the test results posted about the comparison... It's hard to get in first and reverse in the cold, and when it warms up, it's hard to get into first with the car rolling... I've only see good posts about shockproof, so I'm gonna try that... the $135 for the extra S is more than I can afford right now...
 
#62 ·
just put in the shockproof tonight... we'll see how it goes.. seems much smoother, mA, so far, but we'll see with longer term... I was able to get into first going between 25-30 mph... and the car seems lighter... still have to to do the diff....

anyone try the heavyduty shock proof? it's supposed to be more durable according to the label on the lightduty label...


we'll see how this is in the cold in the morning on the way to work...
 
#64 ·
it doesn't work to well when it's real cold out like this morning, but after it warms up it's good.... 1st gear is useful again for more than just pulling from a start... actually I think this is the first time since I got the car (112k miles ago) that I'm able to downshift into first between 30-25 mph and it helps with the turbo lag at a tight turn or turning left into a parking lot or something where you have to slow for oncoming traffic to pass...
 
#69 ·
Hey Jeremy, any word from Blackstone on the USC?
I dropped the ball. I have the sample in its container ready to send it in and haven't yet (been stressing over home buying:rolleyes:).

Jeremy, I saw you put Redline Lightweight Shockproof gear oil in the rear diff. I'm wondering how you are liking it.
I actually really like it. I am running a 60/40ish mix of the lightweight shockproof and Amsoil SVG 75w90 gear oil in the trans and the LW shockproof in the rear diff. The drivetrain engages very smooth (maybe a little better than the USC) and the noise (meat grinder sound and gear whine) is greatly reduced. I can down shift 2-1 at 30+ mph without double clutching (heel-toe rev match though).


I'm also wondering if the Lightweight Shockproof is too thick hot, being more like a 75w140. Our cars call for 75W90 in the rear diff right? Even wrxs and Stis(mines a N/A 06 wagon)
Well LW Shockproof is a little thick for very cold weather >10 DEG F IMO to run straight. For cold weather I'd run:

1.5 qts of LW shckproof
2 qts Amsoil MTG (30% better cold flow characteristics than the SVG)


Lastly I'm wondering if I should just use the Redline 75w90 cause the Superlight Shockproof isn't API cerified and the 75w90 is recommended for API GL-5, GL-6 and MT-1.
Well the literature in the Redlines pdf states that "LightWeight Gear Oil - a 75W/80W GL-5 gear oil" its semi confusing since they have a "shockproof" paragraph below that too.

If you are really worried about warranty (hope nothing else is modified) I'd run the Genuine Subaru Extra-S.
 
#66 ·
rear diff fluid

Jeremy, I saw you put Redline Lightweight Shockproof gear oil in the rear diff. I'm wondering how you are liking it.

Currently I have Mobil 1 75W90, regular dino oil, in it and its about 10k old.(did the first change at 35k, now I'm at ~44k) After reading a few different posts and then this one here I decided to swap cause its so easy and will only cost about 10$ for the redline.

When I went to my local auto supply that carries Redline, they didn't have it and said they wouldn't order any more for a few months. I found a shop that had Redline Superlight Shockproof Gear Oil, and Redline 75w90 so I picked up a quart of each and figured I ask the folks here.

The Redline page says the Superlight Shockproof is, "A unique product with the viscosity of a 75w90 gear oil but lower internal temperature similar to that of an ATF. Used when temperatures are not high and when the maximum power output is required such as in stock car qualifying laps.

Used in low-power road racing transxles like Formula Vee and low-power SCCA Production classes (dog-ring type, generally not sycro application where this product can be slippery)."

source(http://www.redlineoil.com/products_gearlubricants.asp?productID=42&subCategoryID=16&categoryID=6 )

Same page says the Lightweight Shockproof is, "A unique gear oil designed to lubricate racing transmissions and transaxles which see serious loads (not recommended for most syncro-type transmissions). It has excellent low-temperature flow which allows easier shifting when cold. May be used to obtain maximum power transfer in racing differentials which do not see high temperatures. Similar to a 75W140 gear oil, but with the lower internal friction of an SAE 30 motor oil.

Used in most road-racing differentials with moderate power and dogring racing transaxles."


I'm wondering if the Superlight will protect as well as the Lightweight, the bottle of Superlight says, "For maximum durability, use Heavy Shockproof or Lightweight Shockproof."

I'm also wondering if the Lightweight Shockproof is too thick hot, being more like a 75w140. Our cars call for 75W90 in the rear diff right? Even wrxs and Stis(mines a N/A 06 wagon)

Lastly I'm wondering if I should just use the Redline 75w90 cause the Superlight Shockproof isn't API cerified and the 75w90 is recommended for API GL-5, GL-6 and MT-1.

Thanks and sorry if this is confusing, I'm a silly newbie to these forum things.
 
#67 ·
After readin all the info here and elsewhere, I'd like to swap the Mobil1 75w90 in the rear diff for something better.

However, the local auto supply didn't have the lightweight shockproof anymore and weren't goin to order some for some months they said. They did have one quart of Superlight Shockproof and some Redline 75w90.

I grabbed one of each, thought I'd ask you guys how you feel about it, then do the swap and report my results.

Here are my feelings:

The Superlight says on the bottle,"For maximum durability, use Heavy Shockproof or Lightweight Shockproof." I'm wondering if this means it doesn't protect as well or if it wont last as long, meaning the change interval is like 10k instead of 20-30k.

The redline webpage says that the superlight is like a 75w90, but with lower internal friction similar to that of ATF. The same page says the lightweight is more like a 75w140. Our cars require a 75w90 in the rear diff with a API rating of GL-5 or MT-1 right? So is the lightweight too thick at high temperatures?

I'm wondering what you guys would choose, the Superlight Shockproof or the redline 75w90. Or if you'd still stick with the Lightweight Shockproof?
 
#70 ·
You didn't drop the ball, you just picked up another one from a different field in life. Good luck with the home buying.

I'm not worried about the cold weather, being that I live in Southern California. I thinkin the lightweight might be too thick once it gets hot, being more like a 75w140(my info on this comes from here:http://www.redlineoil.com/products_gearlubricants.asp?productID=43&subCategoryID=16&categoryID=6

I'm wondering which you'd choose for the rear diff: the Superlight Shockproof, or the Redline 75w90? Or would you order the Lightweight online and wait for shippin?
 
#73 ·
I'd run straight lightweight or one of the "cocktails" noted in this thread

you might search around but I'm not aware of anyone running the super lightweight (it may be fine, but I don't think you want to be the guinea pig :))

or the oe Subaru Extra S
 
#76 ·
I'm pretty sure the "plain" Redline 75w90 on it's own will have the same issues as the M1- it's just too damn slippery. My M1 was fine when first filled, but got crappy in a hurry- downshifting become nightmarish. I think if you search many have tried the Redline 75w90 only to have the same issues.

If your local shop doesn't have the lighweight, you can order it online and get it in a couple of days.
 
#83 ·
Thanks Big Sky and Jeremy. You guys have been a big help since I joined the community. Big Sky's write up about the plug change, and Jeremy and SD_GR with all the info about fluids. Thanks again.

Did the change yesterday. I used Jeremy's pump idea to get the .8 quarts in the diff. Worked like a charm.

I also bought a cheap quart of oil to flush the diff out. The dino mobil 75w90 was pretty black after only 8-9k. And I still had quite a bit of metal shavings. Maybe cause I didn't get it as full the first time? I got a pic I'll post later, when I figure out how to do that.

Car feels great. Almost seems that the drivetrain engages smoother than the dino mobil. Again, maybe cause I didn't get the diff as full last time I did it.

I still wanna try the superlight shockproof, especially after reading the pdf that Jeremy posted.

"SuperLight Gear Oil- a 70W/75W GL-5 gear oil with the
viscosity of an ATF. This is used when temperatures are
not high and when the maximum power output is
required such as in qualifying laps."

Sounds like it would transfer more power to the wheels, or at least transfer it more efficiently. Maybe my logic is clouded by all the fine herbal medicine Cali has to offer.hehehe
 
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